*Old Salt *is a CAF member, LOL.
- I’m not Old Salt. Frankly, I’m insulted that you’d insinuate that I’m old!
I know. I was just being funny.
not that YOU are old, just that your salt is…
- I’m not Old Salt. Frankly, I’m insulted that you’d insinuate that I’m old!
NORC (National Online Research Center) is a nationally trusted professional research center at the private, non-catholic, University of Chicago. They have no vested interest whatsoever in the results of their surveys, and they consult the government all the time to gather polling results. I have little reason to doubt their results (which, you will note, were about self-identified “traditional” catholics, since there is no such thing as an “official” group known as traditional catholics).
Thank you for clarifying, and I apologize for interpreting your comment negatively. Likewise I appreciate BOTH rites, and cannot tell you how condescending some people are to those of us who try to take the middle ground on this subject… which (unfairly) influenced my reaction to your words.
Actually I provided a reason why not to trust the survey. I’m not saying the group itself is untrustworthy, but the given the answers, I can easily tell that a good share of those people answering were not traditional Catholics. As you pointed out yourself, those were self-identified traditional Catholics. Many of them proved to be pro-abortion, against consulting the Church’s moral authority when making moral decisions, thought that attending Mass regularly was not necessary, and many other answers that no Catholic should be giving. That’s a clear enough reason for me not to trust the accuracy of that survey, regardless of the honesty of the group doing it.not that YOU are old, just that your salt is…
NORC (National Online Research Center) is a nationally trusted professional research center at the private, non-catholic, University of Chicago. They have no vested interest whatsoever in the results of their surveys, and they consult the government all the time to gather polling results. I have little reason to doubt their results (which, you will note, were about self-identified “traditional” catholics, since there is no such thing as an “official” group known as traditional catholics).
In contrast, you’ve presented me only with anecdotal evidence which wouldn’t stand in any scholarly discussion. Frankly, you have no authority as a polling source in my mind compared to the NORC… heck, I don’t even know what sample method you used to gather your information!
Unfortunately for the “traditionalist” movement, there is no REAL official group in the church called “traditional catholics”. You don’t have the authority to state who is traditional and who isn’t… this is merely a label that certain catholics choose to identify themselves with… and the reality is that yes, some catholics who consider themselves to be “traditional” likewise hold very UNcatholic beliefs. That doesn’t change the fact that when it comes to identifying themselves in terms of unofficial groupings, of which there is no objective criteria, they still self-identify as traditional… or that they still average 8 years older than the other groups…
Erm… what you gave me where statistically fallible means of gathering a sample group. Going to a web forum and taking a survey is not a valid polling method… nor is any other method you mentioned.
By official, I don’t know if you mean canonically established, but I assure you, there is a group of Catholics that are called traditional Catholics. It would be a bit awkward to give this group an official name, because that would be implying that some Catholics are against tradition. Labels are not good, and I know some would prefer to believe that distinctive group does not exist, but but it does.
I see, then I presume you would be able to tell me the specific criteria for this group, who it was established by, and under what authority?
You may just have a bunch of people who attend the NO in that group but think they are traditional because they adhere to Vatican II. For all we know, they don’t even attend the TLM regularly (which is usually something that makes people called “Traditional”). If that’s the case, then it doesn’t matter much that one group of NO-goers is older than another because it wouldn’t have much to do with the EF. However, you might have to get some more information from your pollsters. Until you do, the poll is still garbage because we have no idea who’s who.Unfortunately for the “traditionalist” movement, there is no REAL official group in the church called “traditional catholics”. You don’t have the authority to state who is traditional and who isn’t… this is merely a label that certain catholics choose to identify themselves with… and the reality is that yes, some catholics who consider themselves to be “traditional” likewise hold very UNcatholic beliefs. That doesn’t change the fact that when it comes to identifying themselves in terms of unofficial groupings, of which there is no objective criteria, they still self-identify as traditional… or that they still average 8 years older than the other groups…
Your poll isn’t exactly infallible in itself. At least what I suggested would garner you replies from people who you know attend the TLM regularly - which, as I said, is something that’s quite often used to determine a “traditionalist.” Your poll is shooting in the dark and you’re trying to say it hit a bullseye.
