EF,OF, TC, Roman Catholic, Latin Catholic

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Linusthe2nd

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Having trouble understanding these abbreviations or terms ACCURATELY

EF, OF, TC, Roman Catholic, Latin Catholic

Wasn’t sure where to put the question. But I think it is important to define things accurately. Otherwise there is no intelligent conversation. So I would appreciate exact definitions of the terms above. Thanks ahead of time. 👍
 
I was thinking about starting a thread asking if the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) is the same as the Extraordinary Form (EF) of the Mass. There seem to be a number of terms going around about Latin Masses and I’m not sure if they are referring to the same type of Mass. What the difference b/t High Mass and Low Mass?
 
Linusthe2nd said:
Having trouble understanding these abbreviations or terms ACCURATELY

EF, OF, TC, Roman Catholic, Latin Catholic

Wasn’t sure where to put the question. But I think it is important to define things accurately. Otherwise there is no intelligent conversation. So I would appreciate exact definitions of the terms above. Thanks ahead of time. 👍
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EF- Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite; sacraments and associated business celebrated according to ceremonies contained in books published from 1570ish up until 1962ish
OF- Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite; sacraments and associated business celebrated according to ceremonies contained in books published since the middle-ish of the Second Vatican Council
TC- abbreviation for traditional Catholic, usually self-refers to someone who prefers the EF
Roman Catholic- generic term for the Catholic Church; as to whether it can technically be used to refer to the whole Church (including Eastern Catholics, that is), I don’t know, some say yes, some say no
Latin Catholic- someone who is part of the Latin Church. The Catholic Church is made up of 23 “Churches,” all equally Catholic and equally in union with the Pope. The Latin Church is one of these, the only “Western” Church (the other 22 are Eastern Churches), by far the largest, and this is probably what your average Joe Protestant thinks of–incorrectly of course–when he thinks of “Catholic.” This is the “Church” that is descended from the Latin people. They worship according to any of several Rites: Roman, Ambrosian, Bragan, Dominican, Carthusian, etc. The Roman is, by far, the most widely used Rite of the Latin Church and of the whole Catholic Church, so again, this is what average Joe Protestant thinks of when he thinks of “Catholic.”
maltmom said:
I was thinking about starting a thread asking if the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) is the same as the Extraordinary Form (EF) of the Mass. There seem to be a number of terms going around about Latin Masses and I’m not sure if they are referring to the same type of Mass. What the difference b/t High Mass and Low Mass?
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TLM=EF. TLM is an unofficial title ascribed to the Mass according to the Missal of John XXIII. EF is technically a descriptive phrase used in the document Summorum Pontificum to describe the Mass according to the Missal of John XXIII.

Solemn Mass/Solemn High Mass- sung Mass, full ceremonial of the Mass w/one priest and a deacon and subdeacon, or two priests filling in for the latter two, incense required

High Mass/Missa Cantata- sung Mass w/one priest, incense optional but commonly used

Low Mass- read Mass w/one priest
 
YoungTradCath said:
EF- Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite; sacraments and associated business celebrated according to ceremonies contained in books published from 1570ish up until 1962ish
OF- Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite; sacraments and associated business celebrated according to ceremonies contained in books published since the middle-ish of the Second Vatican Council
TC- abbreviation for traditional Catholic, usually self-refers to someone who prefers the EF
Roman Catholic- generic term for the Catholic Church; as to whether it can technically be used to refer to the whole Church (including Eastern Catholics, that is), I don’t know, some say yes, some say no
Latin Catholic- someone who is part of the Latin Church. The Catholic Church is made up of 23 “Churches,” all equally Catholic and equally in union with the Pope. The Latin Church is one of these, the only “Western” Church (the other 22 are Eastern Churches), by far the largest, and this is probably what your average Joe Protestant thinks of–incorrectly of course–when he thinks of “Catholic.” This is the “Church” that is descended from the Latin people. They worship according to any of several Rites: Roman, Ambrosian, Bragan, Dominican, Carthusian, etc. The Roman is, by far, the most widely used Rite of the Latin Church and of the whole Catholic Church, so again, this is what average Joe Protestant thinks of when he thinks of “Catholic.”

TLM=EF. TLM is an unofficial title ascribed to the Mass according to the Missal of John XXIII. EF is technically a descriptive phrase used in the document Summorum Pontificum to describe the Mass according to the Missal of John XXIII.

Solemn Mass/Solemn High Mass- sung Mass, full ceremonial of the Mass w/one priest and a deacon and subdeacon, or two priests filling in for the latter two, incense required

High Mass/Missa Cantata- sung Mass w/one priest, incense optional but commonly used

Low Mass- read Mass w/one priest
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This ought to be a sticky. Perhaps with some paragraph breaks. Good stuff.
 
Thanks to everyone. These comments and the links seem to clear up my questions.
Important to keep on the SAME PAGE, right. 👍
 
I’d like to say thank you as well. I’ve only been Catholic six months and I’ve been a little confused. Since we don’t have a Latin Mass here I thought it best to ask you guys.
 
The one thing that I would add, and please note that I am NOT arguing for or against, but only stating that this argument exists;

that TLM does NOT equal EF. [TLM≠EF]
 
Kevin812 said:
The one thing that I would add, and please note that I am NOT arguing for or against, but only stating that this argument exists;

that TLM does NOT equal EF. [TLM≠EF]
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I’d say this is a bit pedantic; I don’t know of anyone who as a matter of course understands TLM to mean the OF.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I’d say this is a bit pedantic; I don’t know of anyone who as a matter of course understands TLM to mean the OF.
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Pedantic, I would agree. The idea (and remember I am not advocating) is that the TLM is distinct from the EF. I have seen this argument made in the rather rarefied climes of (my word choice) Ultra Trads or those on the far extreme.

On the issue of the “Latin Mass” - this is not a very distinct term, since the OF may be and is celebrated in latin.
 
Kevin812 said:
The one thing that I would add, and please note that I am NOT arguing for or against, but only stating that this argument exists;

that TLM does NOT equal EF. [TLM≠EF]
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I realize these terms are not defined in stone anywhere. That really complicates things. So how do you understand the difference?

Perhaps we could get the Mod to set up a set of definitions just for this site so everyone could be on the same page. Would end a lot of confusion. :confused:
 
Linusthe2nd said:
I realize these terms are not defined in stone anywhere. That really complicates things. So how do you understand the difference?
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The term “Extraordinary Form” or “EF” is defined in stone in the Holy Father’s letter Summorum Pontificum: it only describes the Mass of John XXIII/Roman Missal of 1962.

The term “Traditional Latin Mass” or “TLM” only has one commonly accepted meaning: the Mass of John XXIII/Roman Missal of 1962.

So for practical purposes, it’s case closed: they mean the same thing.

The only exception is that some groups used the pre-1955 Roman Missal, which they call the “TLM,” while the pope applies the term “Extraordinary Form” only to the 1962 missal.

Of course, there are traditional forms of the religious orders’ Masses, but I have always heard them called “traditional (order name here) Mass” to distinguish them from the Roman rite.
 
Rich_C said:
The term “Extraordinary Form” or “EF” is defined in stone in the Holy Father’s letter Summorum Pontificum: it only describes the Mass of John XXIII/Roman Missal of 1962.
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That has the odor of creeping infallibility and is too narrow of a view.
 
Kevin812 said:
That has the odor of creeping infallibility and is too narrow of a view.
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I’d like to point out that “extraordinary form” and “ordinary form” are used in Summorum Pontificum as descriptive phrases only; they are not technically titles. Although, I’m not complaining if anyone does use these phrases, as I do.
 
Rich C said:
The term “Extraordinary Form” or “EF” is defined in stone in the Holy Father’s letter Summorum Pontificum: it only describes the Mass of John XXIII/Roman Missal of 1962.
Click to expand...
Kevin812 said:
That has the odor of creeping infallibility and is too narrow of a view.
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Could you be more clear? I had to look up “creeping infallibility.”

I would never argue that the 1962 missal must be referred to as the “Extraordinary Form” and nothing else, I think that’s incorrect. I am saying that the term “Extraordinary Form” only applies to the 1962 missal and no other. How can you dispute the latter? The term only appears in SP where it is clearly defined as such.
 
Rich_C said:
The term “Extraordinary Form” or “EF” is defined in stone in the Holy Father’s letter Summorum Pontificum: it only describes the Mass of John XXIII/Roman Missal of 1962.

The term “Traditional Latin Mass” or “TLM” only has one commonly accepted meaning: the Mass of John XXIII/Roman Missal of 1962.

So for practical purposes, it’s case closed: they mean the same thing.

The only exception is that some groups used the pre-1955 Roman Missal, which they call the “TLM,” while the pope applies the term “Extraordinary Form” only to the 1962 missal.

Of course, there are traditional forms of the religious orders’ Masses, but I have always heard them called “traditional (order name here) Mass” to distinguish them from the Roman rite.
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That seems clear, if everyone using these terms would abide by these strictures it would be a lot easier to know what they are driving at.

So then, would I be correct if I associated the Mass celebrated by the Society of St. Peter with the EF and/or the TLM Mass? 👍
 
Linusthe2nd said:
That seems clear, if everyone using these terms would abide by these strictures it would be a lot easier to know what they are driving at.

So then, would I be correct if I associated the Mass celebrated by the Society of St. Peter with the EF and/or the TLM Mass? 👍
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Yes, that’s exactly what they celebrate. Bingo.
 
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