EF Second class feast falls on second class Sunday

[elmerm]

Last Sunday (July 26) also happened to be the Feast of Saint Anne, Mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

At the Extraordinary Form Mass that I attended last Sunday, the celebrant prayed two Collects in succession – the first one for the 9th Sunday After Pentecost, and the second one for the Commemoration of Saint Anne. It was a Missa cantata (sung Mass).

I wondered why there was a second Collect. What exactly are the norms/rules for adding a second Collect in the Extraordinary Form?

 

[porthos11]

Last Sunday (July 26) also happened to be the Feast of Saint Anne, Mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

At the Extraordinary Form Mass that I attended last Sunday, the celebrant prayed two Collects in succession – the first one for the 9th Sunday After Pentecost, and the second one for the Commemoration of Saint Anne. It was a Missa cantata (sung Mass).

I wondered why there was a second Collect. What exactly are the norms/rules for adding a second Collect in the Extraordinary Form?

Two celebrations of equal rank (in this case, class II). The second Collect (and Secret and Postcommunion) are what are called “Commemorations.” I think under the 1962 rubrics, the number of commemorations is limited to two.

 

[elmerm]

Two celebrations of equal rank (in this case, class II). The second Collect (and Secret and Postcommunion) are what are called “Commemorations.” I think under the 1962 rubrics, the number of commemorations is limited to two.

I figured out as much. Though, I got somewhat confused by the use of double Collects last Sunday because Rubric 109 does not seem to list the Feast of Saint Anne as a privileged commemoration, thus, making it an ordinary commemoration. And, being an ordinary commemoration, it may be commemorated “only at lauds, in conventual Masses, and in all low Masses,” as Rubric 108 seems to say.

Is my understanding correct? Or was my confusion unfounded? Please correct any erroneous understanding that I may have had. Thanks in advance.

 

[porthos11]

I figured out as much. Though, I got somewhat confused by the use of double Collects last Sunday because Rubric 109 does not seem to list the Feast of Saint Anne as a privileged commemoration, thus, making it an ordinary commemoration. And, being an ordinary commemoration, it may be commemorated “only at lauds, in conventual Masses, and in all low Masses,” as Rubric 108 seems to say.

Is my understanding correct? Or was my confusion unfounded? Please correct any erroneous understanding that I may have had. Thanks in advance.

Hm. I don’t know, and I missed your previous comment that the Mass was sung. It probably shouldn’t have been commemorated then, but only if the Mass was Low.

Unless there is a rubric that gives priests some discretion on whether to commemorate or not.

Perhaps a more knowledgeable poster will chime in.

 

[elmerm]

Hm. I don’t know, and I missed your previous comment that the Mass was sung. It probably shouldn’t have been commemorated then, but only if the Mass was Low.

Unless there is a rubric that gives priests some discretion on whether to commemorate or not.

Perhaps a more knowledgeable poster will chime in.

Thank you, porthos11! I’m somewhat relieved that at least one other person agrees with my own interpretation: that the commemoration of Saint Anne shouldn’t have been done because the Mass was a Missa cantata.

I’m hoping an expert could provide a definitive answer.

Also, I’d like some personal advice on how to go about telling the good Monsignor about it. without offending him or sounding like Mr. Know-It-All. He means well. He studied how to celebrate the Extraordinary Form from the ground up, since he grew up in the context of the Ordinary Form.

 

[OraLabora]

Thank you, porthos11! I’m somewhat relieved that at least one other person agrees with my own interpretation: that the commemoration of Saint Anne shouldn’t have been done because the Mass was a Missa cantata.

I’m hoping an expert could provide a definitive answer.

Also, I’d like some personal advice on how to go about telling the good Monsignor about it. without offending him or sounding like Mr. Know-It-All. He means well. He studied how to celebrate the Extraordinary Form from the ground up, since he grew up in the context of the Ordinary Form.

Let it go and offer it up.

 

[porthos11]

Thank you, porthos11! I’m somewhat relieved that at least one other person agrees with my own interpretation: that the commemoration of Saint Anne shouldn’t have been done because the Mass was a Missa cantata.

I’m hoping an expert could provide a definitive answer.

Also, I’d like some personal advice on how to go about telling the good Monsignor about it. without offending him or sounding like Mr. Know-It-All. He means well. He studied how to celebrate the Extraordinary Form from the ground up, since he grew up in the context of the Ordinary Form.

I would say don’t. Let it go; it’s not a big deal.

 

[porthos11]

Thank you, porthos11! I’m somewhat relieved that at least one other person agrees with my own interpretation: that the commemoration of Saint Anne shouldn’t have been done because the Mass was a Missa cantata.

I’m hoping an expert could provide a definitive answer.

Also, I’d like some personal advice on how to go about telling the good Monsignor about it. without offending him or sounding like Mr. Know-It-All. He means well. He studied how to celebrate the Extraordinary Form from the ground up, since he grew up in the context of the Ordinary Form.

Don’t. Let it go; it’s not a big deal.

Perhaps if the opportunity presents itself, you can ask; the information you get could be valuable. But if you do approach, approach as one who is ignorant to one who is knowledgeable. Ask, but do not tell. As with many things in the Church, there is much we do not know. This must be your starting point: assume you do not know. Then ask.

 

[elmerm]

Don’t. Let it go; it’s not a big deal.

Perhaps if the opportunity presents itself, you can ask; the information you get could be valuable. But if you do approach, approach as one who is ignorant to one who is knowledgeable. Ask, but do not tell. As with many things in the Church, there is much we do not know. This must be your starting point: assume you do not know. Then ask.

I find this advice sagely and I will heed it. Thank you for it. But, I don’t think it’s not a big deal. The religious community of which the Monsignor is a member is involved in the liturgical apostolate, and I personally expect the said community to be the exemplars by celebrating the Liturgy strictly according to liturgical norms. That’s why I got truly curious about the double Collect, which, in my limited understanding, shouldn’t have been used last Sunday. The kind Monsignor probably knows something that I/we don’t. I simply yield to the wisdom of experts and authorities when dealing with such things.

 

[Vico]

Two celebrations of equal rank (in this case, class II). The second Collect (and Secret and Postcommunion) are what are called “Commemorations.” I think under the 1962 rubrics, the number of commemorations is limited to two.

Pope John XXIII - Rubric 111 (b), only one commemoration for Sunday Class II.

 

[ProVobis]

Pope John XXIII - Rubric 111 (b), only one commemoration for Sunday Class II.

Even if that were true, the Ecclesia Dei has the final say in the way the EF is said today, and I understand there is a little leeway if Sunday is the only day the EF is offered in that parish.

 

[Vico]

Even if that were true, the Ecclesia Dei has the final say in the way the EF is said today, and I understand there is a little leeway if Sunday is the only day the EF is offered in that parish.

It were true, and they have leeway.