Effect of using Latin

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IF we want to be faithful to Jesus, let us pray the Mass in Aramaic, His native toungue for The Last Supper,
We don’t know this as fact, but even if it were true, we don’t know the exact words. There were at least twelve witnesses to the same event but we only have a consensus of four of them.
silly use of Latin
Silly as perhaps a US dollar bill or Roman law or anatomy? Latin is a codified language that has perserved its grammar and vocabulary for well over 2000 years. It seems silly for a Catholic to follow the Protestant notion that a mutable vernacular is preferable for preserving the Christian faith.
 
I have a question about the use of Latin in liturgy and its wider impacts as a language-learning experience. Is there any study of the impact of hearing Latin - do people actually learn any Latin as a result? Have Latin-Mass-goers ever been scientifically tested to see if, in isolation from the Mass, they can understand the phrases used?
I guess I’m off the current topic, but I wanted to respond to the original question & response.

I rather disagree with the majority response put succinctly below:
No.
No.
No.
Do people “actually learn any Latin as a result [of attending Mass in Latin]?” Well, does attending Mass in Latin make people able to translate Latin? No.

But that doesn’t mean that there is no impact or benefit in terms of learning Latin from having attended Mass in Latin.

There’s one rather big caveat to that statement above: all the benefits I can perceive come from being able to hear and recite the prayers and responses, so much of what I have to say does **not **apply to the “Tridentine” Mass.

My bona fides, such as they are, are having taught Latin for 6 years and having prayed (almost exclusively) the Mass (of Paul VI) in Latin for most of my life (more years than I care to admit, but let’s just say more than 28.)

An element to learning any language, “dead” or not, is always hearing and speaking the language. While it would be shocking if any English-speaker learned Latin grammar from hearing and praying the Mass, doing so provides the learner with a critical “bank” of “live” examples of grammatical constructions, already learned and to hand, which makes learning the language measurably easier.

A simple example: I both learned and taught the hortatory or jussive (or “salad” ;)) subjunctive in Latin using the exhortation frequently heard at Mass “Oremus.” Because my students (and I) had heard and known what this phrase meant already, it provided a key to learning that form of the Latin verb for all verbs.

Attending Mass in Latin, to the extent that a person has the opportunity to hear and recite Latin does have a (positive) effect on one’s ability to learn the language.
 
We don’t know this as fact, but even if it were true, we don’t know the exact words. There were at least twelve witnesses to the same event but we only have a consensus of four of them.

Silly as perhaps a US dollar bill or Roman law or anatomy? Latin is a codified language that has perserved its grammar and vocabulary for well over 2000 years. It seems silly for a Catholic to follow the Protestant notion that a mutable vernacular is preferable for preserving the Christian faith.
Would you really characterize that as a Protestant thing? That rather implies the idea belongs only to Protestantism, which isn’t the case.
 
I belong to the generation which promoted the “Argument from Tourism” that the citizen from Arkansas and the citizen from London were both totally unaware of what the priest was saying in St Peter’s Basilica in Latin.
. Citing the Baltimore Catechism is absolutely unfair to the growth in appreciation of the Paschal Mystery which unfolds in time in the Church. The BC was devoted to defending what was attacked, that the Death of Jesus was repesented sacramentally on the altar an is His Body and Blood. The rest of the Mystery was mentioned in Latin in the only Euch. Prayer we had. It took Vat 11 and the new Cathechism of the Catholic Church to tease out the rising, ascension, coming of the Holy Spirit with all that happens. The worship of God, giivng Him glory, hearing of the forgiveness of our sins, giivng thanks and asking for our needs tie us to union with the Father, through Christ in the Holy Spirit AND with each other an the entire Church and our world. We are called to compassionate forgiveness as we are forgiven and to sharing and caring for the vulnerable in prayer and Works of Mercy. The BC is very tame compared to that rich menu in the CCC which has a You Cat- youth Catechism for younger believers, I have found that those who promote Latin often accuse the Popes since John XX111 of heresy, the Latin Mass before the Council is the only lawful form and they spew hatred. I was on Facebook with them, persuming they were devout Catholis and finally had tor report them for attacking my Faith so hatefully, and illogically. They seem to have been banned by FB at least they are no longer on my back with lies and false history and vicious personal attacks on the Popes.
 
Latin has already been the language of the Church for centuries and already has a wealth of texts, songs and other traditions in the language. The same cannot be said for Aramaic or Greek.

A more accurate understanding of the mass was the turning point for me. We are present at the sacrifice of our Lord! This has been going on for centuries and we are just visitors at the event, so why should the mass change to suit our personal likes and dislikes that are shaped by our local culture when in a hundred years we will all be dead and the culture will change, but the mass will still continue? Why should the church bend to our wills instead of us conforming to the church?
 
Latin has already been the language of the Church for centuries and already has a wealth of texts, songs and other traditions in the language. The same cannot be said for Aramaic or Greek.

A more accurate understanding of the mass was the turning point for me. We are present at the sacrifice of our Lord! This has been going on for centuries and we are just visitors at the event, so why should the mass change to suit our personal likes and dislikes that are shaped by our local culture when in a hundred years we will all be dead and the culture will change, but the mass will still continue? Why should the church bend to our wills instead of us conforming to the church?
But what specifically does Latin have to do with making me holy and helping me to become a saint and make it to heaven? I will inevitably translate it into English (my heart language).

So what is the point of first hearing Mass, hymns, or anything in Latin, other than to gain a sense of tradition and history, and to appreciate the ancientness of the Catholic Church compared to all other pretenders to the Christian faith?

Yes, conform me to the Church and not the other way around! But why should the Church be conformed to Latin? Merely because it is tradition?

Jesus Himself broke all tradition when He eliminated the need for the sacrifice of bulls and lambs and sacrificed Himself. By breaking this ancient tradition of animal sacrifice He fulfilled tradition.

He also alienated a large group of His own people, who refused to accept Him as the Lamb of God, and insisted that the ancient traditions must continue. Eventually the Church called a Council to deal with the issue of whether Christians must become Jews first, and the decision was made–no, we do not have to become Jews first. That decision by the Jerusalem Council still stands.

In the same way, the decision was made by the Church that the Mass can be offered in the vernacular. In all likelihood, that decision will stand in a hundred years after we are all dead, and for many hundreds of years after that. But even if it should change, that’s OK, because our Church is led by Jesus Christ, and He can impose whatever He chooses upon our Church. Who are we to question our Head?

If the Vatican, those who are called, ordained, and appointed to positions of leadership by Jesus Christ Himself, has pronounced that Mass in the vernacular is good and proper, then is it not possible that by doing so, they haven’t “broken” tradition, but have brought it closer to complete fulfillment?

It seems to me that by insisting upon a Latin Mass and no other, *in spite of the endorsement of our Holy Father that the OF Mass is the “Ordinary Form” *(or more accurately in American English, the “usual” form), it is we, mere laypeople, who are guilty of making the Church bend to our wills.

Our duty as laypeople is to trust and obey, not cast aspersions upon the decisions made by our apostles, led by Jesus Christ. Both forms of the Holy Mass, both vernacular and Latin, are acceptable and efficacious in conferring graces upon the believers.

We are privileged to have the choice of both forms-how wonderful of our Holy Mother Church to allow us to choose the form that best appeals to our human senses and meets the needs of our souls! If we do not live in an area that offers Mass in the form that we prefer, perhaps it is we who should make every effort to bring the form to our community, or even make a decided effort to move to a location that does offer the form that we prefer.

If we are not able to attend the Mass form that we prefer, in spite of all our best efforts, perhaps this is a cross sent to us from the Lord that we should seek to learn to carry with grace and no complaints, even as the Lord Jesus carried His cross.
 
Every Catholic should know the correct response to “Dominus vobiscum” is “et cum spiritu tuo” and not “Huh?!?!?”
Cat, since I am the one that you quoted with the above let me list the reason I believe it is important for Roman Catholics to know the prayers and responses in Latin.

First, like it or not, Latin is the language of the Church.It is what has tied the church together for 1800 years. It is nice knowing that I am using the same words St Francis of Assisi or that Pope Gregory the Great used to lift their voices to God.

You make it clear you have no interest in the “ancient Catholicism” practiced way back 50 years ago, but Tradition does define a good part of being Catholic. Or at least it used to. You could have taken a Catholic from the 1600 and drop them in a pew in 1945 and they would likely only notice small changes in the Mass. Take that person and drop them in a modern parish and they likely wouldn’t even believe they are in a Catholic church. It is the rejection of Tradition that leads to problems.

Let me give you an example of why it’s important to know the Latin responses. Using the above response of “Et cum spiritu tuo.” The current translation is “and with you also.” Even with everyday exposure to Latin in modern English most people can pick out the word “spiritu” and intuit that it means something about “spirit.” But wait, the current translation doesn’t say anything about “spirit” in any form. That’s why the revised liturgy is going to a closer translation of “And with your spirit.” Knowing the Latin response it is easy to see the original translation is deficient. That is important because the two translations express different realities. “And also with you” is a banal greeting between Father and the people; person to person. On the other hand, “And with your spirit” reminds us that we are speaking with Christ in the person of his Holy Priest. Huge difference in meaning I’d say.

The benefit with using a set Latin text is that people won’t likely make extemporaneous changes. For instance I once went to a parish where they used to say the creed as “… for us and our salvation he came down from heaven.” I asked father about changing “for us men” to just “for us” and he said that some women in the parish thought it was sexist to only include men in the creed so the asked to drop it. My jaw nearly dropped through the floor. “Men” is talking about all mankind, not half of it. Who does “us” refer to? Me and the guy next to me? The parish? Just Catholics? At a more basic level, since when do the people get to change liturgical prayers to make it fit what they are comfortable with?

This is the problem I see with the vernacular without a base understanding of the original Latin. We end up with generations of Catholics that are divorced from the Universal Catholic church because they have a different interpretation of the Faith. Even some of the music we use has the same effect. Just look at when people sing things like “Here I am Lord” or “One Bread, One Body”. These popular hymns focus not on the glory of God, but rather on the people as individuals or as a whole. It turns the focus of the Mass from worshiping God to a focus on the people. Those songs as a personal devotion are fine I guess, but it bends the purpose of the Mass. This is one way in which heresies make their way into the teaching of the Faith. Not on purpose, but rather through inattention. Just think about the fact that in most parishes the people sing both the verses and chorus of “Here I am, Lord.” The lyrics of the verses are essentially God speaking and it is inappropriate for the people to take on that role for the same reason only the clergy proclaim the Gospel.If the people can speak as the voice of God, then maybe we don’t really need an ordained priesthood? (nudge, cough, Martin Luther)

The final thing for me personally is that Latin prayers help me focus on God. I don’t use Latin in daily life so it is a language set apart for me. Latin turns on a switch in my brain just like the deep base sounds of an organ. Common sounds like hearing English or guitar don’t have the same effect in my brain; namely that sense of mystery and wonder that many feel is missing in the modern liturgy. In the end Latin prayers help center me to say I am taking time out of the secular world and focusing 100% on God.
 
More likely bringing more Latin into the Mass will lead to people sitting and praying their rosary as they used to rather than being engaged in the Mass…
What is wrong with praying the rosary as an aid to deeper contemplation the paschal mystery being made present?
 
Well as anecdotal counterevidence, I have never studied Latin at all, but not only do I know various prayers in Latin by heart, I also know the meaning of each word and phrase in these prayers. Some of the prayers I know are: Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be, Apostle’s Creed, St. Michael, Hail Holy Queen, The Gloria, Nicence Creed, Confiteor, Prayers at the foot of the Altar, and the Prayers after Low Mass.

However, I couldn’t write a paragraph in Latin or hold a conversation in Latin.
Could I perhaps get a copy of all those prayers in Latin? I’ve been taking Latin for a bit, and I do know a few prayers by heart in Latin, but I would like to know if the prayers I have are correct.

-MontChevalier
 
Cat, just to head of the recriminations, I am not (nor have I ever) advocating that the OF be rescinded and the EF be the only Mass celebrated (I personally attend either depending on our schedule). If you read the documents of the Second Vatican Council it is very clear that the Church Fathers never intended for Latin the be replaced part and parcel with the vernacular even in the updated liturgy. The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (Sacrosanctum Concilium) was very clear when it stated:
Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites. (SC 36 § 1)
[Note: when the Church refers to “the Latin rites” she refers to the rites of the Roman (aka Latin) Church, both ordinary and extraordinary forms of the Mass are included under the heading of “Latin rites” regardless of the language used]

While SC 36 § 2 does permit the use of vernacular languages (aka the “mother tongue”) in the liturgy it calls out that it might be most beneficial when it is applied “… in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers…” (emphasis added).

It is obvious from those passages that even the revised liturgy (i.e. OF) was not meant to remove Latin completely. Both Blessed John Paul and our Holy Father Benedict have repeatedly stated that we as Catholics should cherish and continue to use Latin in the Mass. Since there is but one Mass I cannot understand those who who vehemently reject “the splendid language of ancient Rome.” (JPII, Dominicae cenae)
 
I have found that those who promote Latin often accuse the Popes since John XX111 of heresy, the Latin Mass before the Council is the only lawful form and they spew hatred. I was on Facebook with them, persuming they were devout Catholis and finally had tor report them for attacking my Faith so hatefully, and illogically. They seem to have been banned by FB at least they are no longer on my back with lies and false history and vicious personal attacks on the Popes.
Your description is a rather unfortunate characterization of people who use Latin in the mass. My parish is rather ordinary, inner-city, lower-middle class. We celebrate the ordinary form of the mass, but often sing what are called the “ordinaries” in Latin (especially the Gloria, the Sanctus, and the Agnus Dei), which are already printed (in Latin) in our run-of-the-mill hymnals. Use of Latin is encouraged during the OF, that does not make it the so-called “Latin Mass” and we love the pope.
 
Please hold on there.

1 The first document from Vat 11 from the Council was the Lirurgy. The Mass was trsnslated into the vernacular the fall of 1964, the Latin text was in small print to the side of the Missal/today Sacramentary so it is not correct to say that Pope Paul V1 conradicted the Council when he succeeed JXX111 as Pope and finished the Council.
2. Greek is the language for worship in the Church since the beginning and is preserved in the Orthodox Churches. Aramaic is still the language of the Maronite Rite and was the original language of the Eucharist for Jesus and his apostles until they met the non-Jewish world.
3 I did not say all Latin-Mass people were heretics. I said SOME and I have had to finally stop discussing with the last group as I said on Facebook. Viciousness and hatred and slander and libel is their “worship” language. I was very aware of the attacks made on the earlier days of change and how our priests were subjected to being accused of Protestantism as some Reformation stuff was thrown at them.
4 The Mass is not the sacrificc of Christ. It includes His rising, ascension and sending of the Holy Spirit. The entire Paschal Mystery, not just his sacrificial death. The Eucharis is a SACRIFICIAL-MEAL which combines the altar-table.
5 I had a classical European edication and learned litirgical Latin and classical Latin. IF you can readily understand thre words of the Gloria and Creed and Sanctus in English and pray them, God bless you. Most cannot which is why EWTN does a disservice to those who are there and around the world for their daily Mass with no understanding. It does not bother me but how many can really understand enough to pray. I asked a deacon friend who was arguing in the RCIA class about pushing Latin for benediction what “Da robur fer auxilium” meant. No clue it is “give strength, bring help.” What was he praying in the benediction hymns
 
The Mass was trsnslated into the vernacular the fall of 1964.
Actually the Mass had been translated many times before 1964, in fact as early (or even earlier than) the Reformation period. But as far as Catholics were concerned the translations were simply guides in the handmissals. The Reformers wanted to displace the Latin altogether 4-500 years ago but this was held in check by the doctrinal council of Trent, which anathematized anyone who even said the Mass should be in the vulgar tongue (only). Effectively it banned vulgar tongues in the Latin Mass. This “ban” was solidified by many Popes, including Pope John XXIII in his Veterum Sapientia, a few months before he convened Vatican II. (Not Vat 11, by the way.)

bolchazy.com/al/pope.htm
…These are the words of Our Predecessor Pius XI, who conducted a scientific inquiry into this whole subject, and indicated three qualities of the Latin language which harmonize to a remarkable degree with the Church’s nature. “For the Church, precisely because it embraces all nations and is destined to endure to the end of time, of its very nature requires a language which is universal, immutable, and non vernacular.”

Finally, the Catholic Church has a dignity far surpassing that of every merely human society, for it was founded by Christ the Lord. It is altogether fitting, therefore, that the language it uses should be noble, majestic, and nonvernacular

Greek is the language for worship in the Church
Then why was the Kyrie Eleison also turned into the vulgar tongue? 😉
What was he praying in the benediction hymns
My question, of perhaps more importance, would be does he even know what benediction is?
 
You shouldn’t compare the documents written by the Vatican with the Latin in the Mass. Do you understand the bills that Congress writes? Does that mean you don’t have “full” grasp of English, whatever that means?

The Latin in the Mass and the prayers are much easier and should be more familiar to all of us through spaced repetitions. They have been used for many centuries and there’s no reason why they can’t be used going forward. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what they say. Of course, you’re not going to understand them the same way you understand English. But then, I don’t understand things in the English language the same way I understand them in Polish. It’s just the nature of languages and cultures, something the monolingual who just has to have everything in his vernacular and with the proper dialect will probably never understand.
fall fox

If you are not fluent in the Latin Language, but you prefer the Latin Mass, how does this bring you closer to God. As I have said before, I loved the sound of the Latin prayers and the Latin hymns, but any messages contained in the prayers and hymns are lost on us. Of course we " KNEW " the Latin prayers but we didn’t know the Latin prayers. ProVobis you will help me out here I’m sure, I think it might have been the Preface, the part of the mass that changes all the time, we would hear the Priest reading these long prayers in Latin and they were lost on us, he could have been speaking most any language in the world that was foreign to us. I take it that you are Polish. In Poland? Did a lot of your fellow Polish Catholics pray the rosary during mass like they did here? It was not proper for anyone to be praying the rosary during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but you couldn’t blame them, it was what they understood. They knew they should be praying during Mass but the Blessed Mother was their focus not Christ in the Holy Eucharist. Here we come to the Crux of the matter, why the consuming desire on having Latin in the Mass? Why is that so very important to you, not only you ProVobis but all those on the Latin Bandwagon. Where in all of this is your desire to defend or help build the belief in the Holy Eucharist? I somehow believe that even the Church doesn’t want to know who or how many Catholics believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The focus seems to be on fellowship, if that is all we have as Catholics, then we are exactly like the Protestant churches. Fellowship can be had in the narthex or having donuts and coffee after Mass. What we have is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus the Christ. That is the focus of the Roman Catholic Church. Spend your time and talents fostering that. There are so many Catholics that when they should have been learning the faith, didn’t. Their Caticesis was lacking to say the least. Now we have children of those Catholics that are worse off than their parents because their parents can’t pass their beliefs on. Well maybe they did and that is what is wrong with our Church today. They don’t even understand why they need to go to Church on Sunday. They don’t understand that our Catholic Churches are Holy places not social halls. That Christ is present in the Tabernacle and because of that there should be reverence shown to this Holy place.
 
What is wrong with praying the rosary as an aid to deeper contemplation the paschal mystery being made present?
fall fox

You can pray the rosary well, devoutly. You can follow and participate in the Mass well , devoutly. You can do both at the same time neither well nor devoutly. At Mass, the devotion is to Jesus in the confection of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of our Christ. It is not a time for devotion to the Blessed Mother.
 
But what specifically does Latin have to do with making me holy and helping me to become a saint and make it to heaven? I will inevitably translate it into English (my heart language).

So what is the point of first hearing Mass, hymns, or anything in Latin, other than to gain a sense of tradition and history, and to appreciate the ancientness of the Catholic Church compared to all other pretenders to the Christian faith?

Yes, conform me to the Church and not the other way around! But why should the Church be conformed to Latin? Merely because it is tradition?

Jesus Himself broke all tradition when He eliminated the need for the sacrifice of bulls and lambs and sacrificed Himself. By breaking this ancient tradition of animal sacrifice He fulfilled tradition.

He also alienated a large group of His own people, who refused to accept Him as the Lamb of God, and insisted that the ancient traditions must continue. Eventually the Church called a Council to deal with the issue of whether Christians must become Jews first, and the decision was made–no, we do not have to become Jews first. That decision by the Jerusalem Council still stands.

In the same way, the decision was made by the Church that the Mass can be offered in the vernacular. In all likelihood, that decision will stand in a hundred years after we are all dead, and for many hundreds of years after that. But even if it should change, that’s OK, because our Church is led by Jesus Christ, and He can impose whatever He chooses upon our Church. Who are we to question our Head?

If the Vatican, those who are called, ordained, and appointed to positions of leadership by Jesus Christ Himself, has pronounced that Mass in the vernacular is good and proper, then is it not possible that by doing so, they haven’t “broken” tradition, but have brought it closer to complete fulfillment?

It seems to me that by insisting upon a Latin Mass and no other, *in spite of the endorsement of our Holy Father that the OF Mass is the “Ordinary Form” *(or more accurately in American English, the “usual” form), it is we, mere laypeople, who are guilty of making the Church bend to our wills.

Our duty as laypeople is to trust and obey, not cast aspersions upon the decisions made by our apostles, led by Jesus Christ. Both forms of the Holy Mass, both vernacular and Latin, are acceptable and efficacious in conferring graces upon the believers.

We are privileged to have the choice of both forms-how wonderful of our Holy Mother Church to allow us to choose the form that best appeals to our human senses and meets the needs of our souls! If we do not live in an area that offers Mass in the form that we prefer, perhaps it is we who should make every effort to bring the form to our community, or even make a decided effort to move to a location that does offer the form that we prefer.

If we are not able to attend the Mass form that we prefer, in spite of all our best efforts, perhaps this is a cross sent to us from the Lord that we should seek to learn to carry with grace and no complaints, even as the Lord Jesus carried His cross.
fall fox

Well said ! Well said !
The Roman Church NEEDS the Latin Language. It is the Church’s base line or bench mark that will always exist as time passes and the vernacular changes through usage,
the Church will have the ability, as it does now, to adjust the vernacular wording, so that the true meaning of the words of 2000 years ago comes through today.
 
I would be truly happy to see Latin used more often even in post Vatican II Masses as EWTN is doing. Well that and banishing the horrible music like “Here I Am, Lord” and all the rest of the fluff folk music from Dan Schutte and his ilk.
Hey, ‘Here I am, Lord’ is all right! It’s ‘praise bands’ you should worry about…
 
fall fox

You can pray the rosary well, devoutly. You can follow and participate in the Mass well , devoutly. You can do both at the same time neither well nor devoutly. At Mass, the devotion is to Jesus in the confection of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of our Christ. It is not a time for devotion to the Blessed Mother.
I read somewhere that there are 2 ways of praying the rosary. One is giving Our Lady a garland of roses that you have just described. One can however focus on contemplating the mysteries with the Hail Mary as a background prayer asking Our Lady to help us to adore Christ with the heart of his mother. The mother who was at the foot of the cross. Can’t she help us in contemplating the same sacrifice made present?
 
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will try to respond, although I will have to break the post into two parts. Sorry.
Cat, since I am the one that you quoted with the above let me list the reason I believe it is important for Roman Catholics to know the prayers and responses in Latin.

First, like it or not, Latin is the language of the Church.It is what has tied the church together for 1800 years. It is nice knowing that I am using the same words St Francis of Assisi or that Pope Gregory the Great used to lift their voices to God.
That’s nice. But what exactly does that mean other than warm fuzzies?

Yes, I’ve already stated that knowing our history and heritage helps us to understand that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus established, and that’s very important in apologetics and in personal faith.

But just because I am saying the same words that another saint has said before me–what exactly does that do other than thrill me for a few seconds? If I don’t understand those words, what’s the point? I can look at a translation guide, yes–does the act of having to listen and then translate do something to right and left halves of the brain to deepen understanding? I would think that there would be even greater understanding if the words were said or written in my own language, and then a skilled teacher expounded upon the words and discussed applications to modern times and our lives in order to help us internalize the words and apply them to our daily walk with God.
You make it clear you have no interest in the “ancient Catholicism” practiced way back 50 years ago, but Tradition does define a good part of being Catholic. Or at least it used to. You could have taken a Catholic from the 1600 and drop them in a pew in 1945 and they would likely only notice small changes in the Mass. Take that person and drop them in a modern parish and they likely wouldn’t even believe they are in a Catholic church. It is the rejection of Tradition that leads to problems.
Let me give you an example of why it’s important to know the Latin responses. Using the above response of “Et cum spiritu tuo.” The current translation is “and with you also.” Even with everyday exposure to Latin in modern English most people can pick out the word “spiritu” and intuit that it means something about “spirit.” But wait, the current translation doesn’t say anything about “spirit” in any form. That’s why the revised liturgy is going to a closer translation of “And with your spirit.” Knowing the Latin response it is easy to see the original translation is deficient. That is important because the two translations express different realities. “And also with you” is a banal greeting between Father and the people; person to person. On the other hand, “And with your spirit” reminds us that we are speaking with Christ in the person of his Holy Priest. Huge difference in meaning I’d say.
The benefit with using a set Latin text is that people won’t likely make extemporaneous changes. For instance I once went to a parish where they used to say the creed as “… for us and our salvation he came down from heaven.” I asked father about changing “for us men” to just “for us” and he said that some women in the parish thought it was sexist to only include men in the creed so the asked to drop it. My jaw nearly dropped through the floor. “Men” is talking about all mankind, not half of it. Who does “us” refer to? Me and the guy next to me? The parish? Just Catholics? At a more basic level, since when do the people get to change liturgical prayers to make it fit what they are comfortable with?
It’s interesting that you selected the example of “and with your spirit.” I think that this will cause problems in the Catholic Church. Yes, now the translation from Latin to English is more correct–yay! But the problem is that in the United States, we don’t understand the phrase “and with your spirit” in our own language!

We have been influenced heavily by the media when it comes to the word “spirit.” Almost every celeb tosses around the term “spirituality”, even if they are an outspoken atheist. “Spirit” has a decided “New Age” meaning in the United States, and when I hear the word “spirit,” the first thing that comes to my mind is Native American religion, sweat lodges, channelling, seances, soul travel, the spiritualist camp at the edge of my city, etc.

I personally confess–and I wish with all my heart that this were not true, but it is–that I don’t really understand the phrase “and with your spirit” because of a lifetime of media distortion of this word here in the United States. We live in the West, and it is hard for us to understand “and with your spirit.”

I fear that many Catholics besides myself will have a hard time with this and will have to be catechized in more detail in our own language about the Catholic understanding of this phrase and the words “your spirit”, or else we will find ourselves feeling all Shirley MacLaine-y during the Mass and thinking of the priest as our “guide” rather than in personae Christae." And even that [Latin] phrase seems New Agey to me, because it sounds so much like channelling; I would prefer to see a good, clear English tranlation of the phrase.
 
This is the problem I see with the vernacular without a base understanding of the original Latin. We end up with generations of Catholics that are divorced from the Universal Catholic church because they have a different interpretation of the Faith. Even some of the music we use has the same effect. Just look at when people sing things like “Here I am Lord” or “One Bread, One Body”. These popular hymns focus not on the glory of God, but rather on the people as individuals or as a whole. It turns the focus of the Mass from worshiping God to a focus on the people. Those songs as a personal devotion are fine I guess, but it bends the purpose of the Mass. This is one way in which heresies make their way into the teaching of the Faith. Not on purpose, but rather through inattention. Just think about the fact that in most parishes the people sing both the verses and chorus of “Here I am, Lord.” The lyrics of the verses are essentially God speaking and it is inappropriate for the people to take on that role for the same reason only the clergy proclaim the Gospel.If the people can speak as the voice of God, then maybe we don’t really need an ordained priesthood? (nudge, cough, Martin Luther)
Music in the Mass is a whole 'nother issue. I am in despair that Catholics or any Christian will ever have any understanding of corporate singing, because of the abysmal state of music education in the United States. I think that the chances that Latin chant will become established in our Masses are about as good as the chances that I will become rich and famous. Yes, it could happen! But boy, there will have to be some major changes in education in this country. At the moment, most Americans have no clue about music other than popular.

It is my personal opinion that ancient music forms will repel most American Catholics, who now have the choice of attending non-denominational megachurches and hearing professionally-done rock/pop music. And even though making this choice puts the Catholic’s soul in danger of hell, I think that Catholics don’t understand their own theology, and will make that choice because here in the United States, “we have to have our tunes.” That’s why most of us (not me!) carry an iPod everywhere we go–music is not just something we listen to, but it is who we are!

And for most American Catholics, Gregorian chant is not “who we are.” There will have to be some huge re-education in the U.S., not just in the Church, but in our schools, to teach us to appreciate music styles other than rock/pop.
The final thing for me personally is that Latin prayers help me focus on God. I don’t use Latin in daily life so it is a language set apart for me. Latin turns on a switch in my brain just like the deep base sounds of an organ. Common sounds like hearing English or guitar don’t have the same effect in my brain; namely that sense of mystery and wonder that many feel is missing in the modern liturgy. In the end Latin prayers help center me to say I am taking time out of the secular world and focusing 100% on God.
This is your personal experience, and I’m pleased for you. But my personal experience, and that of every other person, is different. Latin does not not help me to focus on God; quite the contrary, it irritates me because I can’t understand it and have to look across the page to a translation. Because of my upbringing, I prefer the “common sounds” of my own dear language. As for music, what brings me into absolutely focus and helps me to shut out all else is traditional hymns in English, Gospel hymns (e.g., Fannie Crosby, Phillip Bliss, etc.), and contemporary praise (e.g., “Let There Be Praise,” “Thy Word,” etc.), done with good instrumentals. I like the organ for the traditional and Gospel hymns, although I grew up hearing it with the piano (I’ve learned that this is an evangelical Protestant tradition), and I prefer the piano and other instruments, especially brass, for the contemporary praise. I understand that this kind of language and music may be a total disconnect for you and others. But it’s MY personal experience.

And I totally understand that the Church is not obligated to provide either you or me with “our personal worship music.” But I also understand that the various documents do not forbid other styles of music in the Mass besides Gregorian chant. I think our Church is more reasonable than Her people! 🙂
 
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