Effective Confirmation lesson plans?

[babochka]

Windfish:

But the ones I have seen, including Ascension Press’ “Chosen,” are what young people like call “cringe.” By far, the best resources I have seen are those produced by Word on Fire and Bishop Barron. They avoid Protestanty “God-talk,” the kind of speech that sounds platitudinous and empty.

There are a few moments in the Chosen videos that can make you cringe. But on the whole, they are very good.

The Catholicism videos from Bishop Barron are awesome. But they really aren’t geared to teens. I used a few of them with some of my teens when they first released. The teens didn’t have the vocabulary or comprehension. The teens got about half or maybe a quarter or third of what he was talking about. That’s OK, but it’s not something to base a class on. I had to spend a LOT of time stopping the video and explaining, because they teens were totally lost.

I used the Catholicism videos to supplement class, not AS class.

I can see that the Catholicism series could be a bit much for many teens, but Bishop Barron’s Word on Fire Ministry has a tremendous number of short, well—produced videos that resonate with my own teens. In particular, my fifteen-year-old son has been helped with some of his podcasts it’s regarding how to answer “new atheism”. But I agree that this should be used as a supplement, not as a standalone program.

 

[CilladeRoma]

No, we do make exceptions to the Mass as class rule. We have kids who already serve at other Masses and others with family/sports/extra curricular activities, who can’t always attend. We ask that they note what Mass/where they attended in their Mass journals, but we don’t “check up” on them.

 

[Lea101]

Letting them ask questions and answering them would be incredibly helpful.

The lesson plan I had was incredibly boring and unhelpful. They just focus on the ‘love’ and Saints and the result? People thinking that being pro life/choice was an option, that the eucharist is a symbol etc

A friend of mine said that they wrote in questions and put it in a basket. Then throughout the lesson plan they work on answering them.

Answering questions nobody asked is boring. Sometimes they want logic over emotional fluff

 

[CilladeRoma]

I understand that you have concerns and you also have some great ideas.
What you seem not to understand is that “Sacramental prep” is not the time to do what you propose.

In my diocese and I am.sure many others, there is a curriculum that must be followed. For Confirmation, it is heavy on building a relationship with God and Church. Its not that we don’t answer questions and talk about defending the faith, apologetics and the other things you want, it’s just not the main focus.

Have you seen the curriculum that your diocese uses? Have you talked with other Catechists in your parish/diocese? Or are you just presupposing that the program is bad based on surveys you’ve read about young people and the Church?

If it’s the latter, I strongly suggest you look at HOW those studies are done and WHO is questioned and how.

Many studies, especially about the Church and attendance are not giving you a full picture. You must look at the questions asked and their wording, who is asking the questions, and who is being asked.

I don’t think anyone is saying you don’t have good ideas.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I ask you, dear reader, have either 1ke or Horton actually proposed anything to help reverse these trends?

I know that @1ke has worked for many years in the trenches.

I have been working as a volunteer for the first decade after my adult conversion and as full time staff for the second decade with teens, kids and adults.

Have you read the 2017 document “Living As Missionary Disciples”?
http://ccc.usccb.org/flipbooks/living-as-missionary-disciples/files/assets/basic-html/page-I.html

The next article that is important is directed at those of us who will be helping form youth and young adults:

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...-on-their-journey-as-missionary-disciples.cfm

Your Diocese has an Office of Youth Ministry & of Faith Formation with a staff who can assist you.

I have seen teens leave the Church because the Confirmation Prep turned out kids with a ton of head knowledge, they knew all the answers but they did not have the love that comes from knowing Christ as a brother, as a friend. I have wept many tears and worn the finish off many rosaries for the youth of our world.

I’ve seen people go through RCIA prep that was of the quality and depth of a “Scott Hahn talk” every week, and 60% of them are gone within a year.

Your zeal is palpable, take that same zeal and understand that we are called to the New Evangelization. We are called to win souls for Christ.

 

[TheLittleLady]

You must look at the questions asked and their wording, who is asking the questions, and who is being asked.

THIS.

Sherry Wadell has done great research on this.

The CARA Studies are very important as well.

 

[Windfish]

What you seem not to understand is that “Sacramental prep” is not the time to do what you propose.

The problem is, you have not demonstrated this in the least and have ignored cogent arguments that show why it is the perfect time to do what I am proposing. Just how can you build a “relationship with God and Church” on a foundation of uncertainty, doubt, and even outright denial. In the order of things, reason has to precede faith, or it just doesn’t work.

To answer your question, I have seen the materials available in my diocese, and I have spoken with the youth director and parish pastor. They are in agreement that my plans are needed for the strong formation of the young people of today, who they agree have imbibed much of the world’s secular forces, whether they know it or not.

 

[CilladeRoma]

What you are proposing it the kind of stuff that is/can be done in Youth Group settings and in other formation. In fact, we do touch on much of this stuff in our lessons, especially int he first year.

The biggest teachers of faith are parents. You can teach kids all the knowledge in the world. You can give them all the tools to defend their faith, but if they don’t experience the people they love and trust making time for cultivating a relationship with God, they never will.

I believe you, as well intentioned as you are, want to put the cart before the horse. If you don’t love something/someone there is no reason to learn to defend it.

It does not need to be an either/or proposition. It is not faith or reason, it is faith AND reason. Both are needed, but relationship has to come first.

 

[RandomAlias]

… I have spoken with the youth director and parish pastor. They are in agreement that my plans are needed for the strong formation of the young people of today…

If they give you the go-ahead, then give it a shot.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I wonder if this sort of thing would work as a follow up after confirmation, teens can be left adrift

 

[Horton]

To answer your question, I have seen the materials available in my diocese, and I have spoken with the youth director and parish pastor. They are in agreement that my plans are needed for the strong formation of the young people of today, who they agree have imbibed much of the world’s secular forces, whether they know it or not.

Then why are you asking here? I will ignore the insults and rudeness as your are very young. I’m sorry you didn’t get all the kudos you felt you deserved, that most of us didn’t believe you were the greatest thing to youth ministry in the world.

I have told you more than once that there are problems within you idea. You completely ignore what I and others have said. Confirmation prep is not the place for it. We have a post confirmation youth group and we have more of a dialog about current events that effect teens and young people.

Let us be more a) careful and b) charitable when reading the thoughts of others. You will notice that the point I was trying to make is that this is not the traditional language of the Church. In the rich spiritual tradition of the Church, words like “communion” and “adoration” are what is used - hardly ever “relationship.” Yes, this is Protestanty, and while a Catholic may co-opt it, you have to know that using this style raises flags for young people, who regard this kind of language - right or wrong - with disdain, the mark of an unintelligent person. My main criticism, which Horton did not address, is that this language is effeminate, and it alienates many males (another statistical reality - less men than women attend mass and practice the faith). Inexplicably, Horton thought I was denying the doctrine of the Real Presence. How someone with such poor reading comprehension is a teacher of the young is troubling.

I apologize for you feeling of injury over my comments, but this ^^^ crosses a line. If you are this sensitive to feedback you have no place in classroom of any kind. You need to be very careful here. This is a reportable post and you may need to go back and read the rules for posting on CAF.

 

[RandomAlias]

In the order of things, reason has to precede faith, or it just doesn’t work.

Why do you believe this to be true? I agree that reason may be a factor in faith building, more so for some individuals than for others, but I’m not convinced that it “has to precede faith.”

 

[Windfish]

Why do you believe this to be true? I agree that reason may be a factor in faith building, more so for some individuals than for others, but I’m not convinced that it “has to precede faith.”

Perhaps this is the problem. This is the constant teaching of the Church. Read Vatican I, read Fides et Ratio, or read St. Thomas Aquinas. If anyone denies this, they have no place in any teaching authority.

Horton, I stand by every single one of my posts. Disagreement, even spirited disagreement, is not rudeness. Calling into question your reading comprehension, while barbed, was only after you accused me of the most vile heresy - iow, you earned it. Uncharitably accusing me of denying the Real Presence is the sickest thing, by far, that anyone has done in this thread or, indeed, my tenure here on CAF (12 yrs). - it is abominable. And that you haven’t retracted it shows me that you don’t really understand the gravity of your words or the gravity of such an accusation. And so, I am even more comfortably confident that it is I who has a firmer grasp on things.

CilladeRoma, you said:

It does not need to be an either/or proposition. It is not faith or reason, it is faith AND reason. Both are needed, but relationship has to come first.

This order of things has been condemned over and over again by the Church, against the Fideists and against the Traditionalists of the 19th century - both were condemned. Yes, reason and faith, but reason must precede faith. If you do not clear the way for reason first, you destroy faith. And this is only common sense. If the vast majority of teens, say, doubt the historicity of the Gospels, how in the world are you supposed to insist on a “relationship” with someone who’s very existence they may doubt? That makes zero sense, and you will only push them further away. You may reply that this is the not your experience of youths in your area, but I tell you that this is the reality for most of the country. And certainly, to prepare them for a world that absolutely will try to spread doubts in them, you have to give them the rational foundation or they are defenseless.

In reading these replies, I am not surprised at all at the state of things.

 

[twf]

Confirmation in the 8th or 9th grade? That seems awfully late… is that the norm in a lot of dioceses?

 

[LateranBasilica]

Finally, it’s not that I refuse to listen, it’s that no one can seem to answer the concerns that I have. I

Have you spoken about these concerns with the Clergy and Lay Ministry leadership responsible for them?
What formation have you had within this Ministry before being charged with the formation of teens?

Yes you are young and passionate about your cause. However as the People of God we dont wotk alone.
We work within the community for the building up of the Church.

Discuss this with those leadership teams in your Parish that can help identify issues and realise opportunity.

And ask for formation and education to develop your teaching charism

 

[LateranBasilica]

ask you, dear reader, have either 1ke or Horton actually proposed anything to help reverse these trends? As you have seen, they positively ignore the barriers and doubts that statistics tell us are a reality among many of your young people. Their emphasis on the spiritual life, prayer, and the presence of Christ is, to be sure, admirable, but they seem uninterested in answering fundamental questions like the existence of God, the rationality of faith, and so on.

Ike and Horton express well, as do others on this thread, the fundamentals of Lay Ministry within their Diocese. The Diocesean Bishop gives lay Ministry its authority and oversees the appropriate discharge of the duties of Lay Ministry.

As you are having difficulty grasping what Lay Ministry is about, please bring your concerns up with the people responsible for leadership of your team . And those who give it authority.

 

[LateranBasilica]

Also given you have said reason should come before faith, you coukd use a little more formation yourself.

 

[Windfish]

Lateran, if you read the whole thread, you will have known that I did precisely that [consult the appropriate local leaders]. And both the youth director and parish pastor agree with my approach. Also, when you accuse someone of not grasping something, in order to not sound patronizing, you ought to demonstrate how they do not grasp that thing. Otherwise, this is just hand-waving. When I accuse 1ke, CilladeRoma, and Horton of wrongfully putting faith before reason, I backed it up with evidence and arguments:

1 - Dei Filius - “The use of reason,” says the Church in condemning Traditionalism, “precedes faith and must lead us to it.”

2 - Young Catholics have impediments that make them withhold faith in some way - in areas of epistemology (faith and reason, history, etc.), morality, human anthropology, and so on. To address them requires apologetics - i.e., rational arguments. To instead, as my interlocutors say, insist up on an “encounter” with the Lord is absolutely backwards. They (and I speak in generalities, of course) may doubt the very existence of whom you would have them believe! And, in any case, the world will come at them, and they must be ready with rational arguments to fall back on. And since the reception of Confirmation is supposed to mark the beginning of the Pentecostal injunction to go out to the world, Confirmation is perfectly the setting to address this.

These are my arguments. They have not even been so much as touched. The argument has been presented many times, and I even offered a thought experiment that shows how difficult it is to maintain the status quo - and nothing. Nada. Zip. So far be it from me of having a “difficulty grasping Lay ministry,” I think I am on the firmest ground.

 

[babochka]

Why do you believe this to be true? I agree that reason may be a factor in faith building, more so for some individuals than for others, but I’m not convinced that it “has to precede faith.”

To provide some balance to your understanding of the Church’s stance on the role of reason and faith, can I suggest that you read the perspective of the Eastern Churches on the relationship between faith and reason? I’m on my phone now, but I’ll try to provide some links for you when I’m on my computer.

 

[Windfish]

What do you think requires balance, exactly? What is out of balance?