Effects of Catholic Teaching on Homosexuals

[RiverTam51]

Saint Paul prophesied that in the end times men would become lovers of men and turn from women. What are we seeing? It comes with all kinds of rationalizations that religion is wrong which our corrupted society defends. It all had to come to pass. Sodom was detroyed. Our society is also on the eve of detruction. We can see it coming apart and the cause is the rejection of God.

The reason Europe is disintegrating is not simply that it can’t manage to keep financial institutions together. The society is unable to keep itself organized and functioning, because men are confused. They can’t even figure out anymore that men marry women.

I do not think the bible was divinely inspired, so I doubt that there was a city called sodom that God destroyed, but I’m pretty sure the points of the story were:

1. Don’t rape people
2. God protects His people and destroys their enemies.
   I really don’t see any evidence that homosexuality was the main issue here.
   Also, I don’t think there is evidence that our society is falling apart. The reason many people believe this is that wars, crime, poverty etc are becoming much more visible due to improvements in media technology. But overall, the statistics show that the world is continually improving in all of these areas. True, we are in an economic depression, but the Great Depression was worse. Homosexuality and atheism were not nearly as visible then, so why are they the cause now?
   If a hurricane hits a city but destroys only the gay bars, or every atheist goes bankrupt, amorality might be a reasonable possibility for the cause of the destruction. But as God supposedly said before destroying sodom, he would spare the city for the sake of one good man. So, even if these things are immoral, I think we can agree that the disasters are not due to an angry God, unless there are no innocents killed.

 

[grandfather]

I do not think the bible was divinely inspired, so I doubt that there was a city called sodom that God destroyed, but I’m pretty sure the points of the story were:

1. Don’t rape people
2. God protects His people and destroys their enemies.

 

[kbwall]

The attitude of groups like “Truth Wins Out” is precisely that which infuriates me even more against the gay community and turns me against gay “rights” out of spite.

Their attitude is one that assumes that everybody wants to be like them. They think that every gay person should be out there practising in sin. It seems to be truly beyond their comprehension that any gay person could want to change, or abstain. According their faulty thinking, any gay person who doesn’t act like them has something wrong with their psychology, and it is the church’s fault for hurting their self esteem. And they cite stuff like suicides to try and give their garbage some weight. All it does is make gay Christians feel even worse about themselves.

I love them as people, but I truly hate their attitude. If only they knew what they’re really doing to homosexual and bisexual Christians. It is their kind of attitude that made me feel so alone. It took me a long time to reconcile myself, and for a long time, people like them made me feel bad for choosing to be straight and abstain from homosexual activities.

Honestly, we need more groups for people like me who are born with urges that they want to supress. I’m tired of the voice of people like “Truth Wins Out” being the loudest and seemingly only voice to LGB people.

 

[RiverTam51]

RiverTam51;9439141:

Let’s see, the narrative says the Sodomites came to Lot’s house and demanded to have sexual relations with the visitors. They turned down Lot’s daughters.

I am trying to interpret the meaning of the author, whoever he was.
Are you honestly making the case that homosexuality is worse than rape? That God would not have been angry if the crowd had accepted the offer of the daughters, and if the crowd had politely invited the guests to a gay orgy, God would still have destroyed the city? If so, then our ideas of God and morality are too different for us to have a meaningful conversation; if not, then the main point of the story is that rape is unacceptable.

Really! Which ones are they? The last century was the bloodiest on record. There are more people killed in Chigaco in violent crime than in the war in Afghanistan. Detroit lost half its population and is dead broke. California is America’s Greece. Europe is coming apart at the seems according to the daily news.

These are all very bad things. But when you look at the murder rate, per capita, that is decreasing overall, even if particular places have become worse than they were before. The economy has become worse in the past five years, especially in Detroit, but overall people have far better access to food, shelter, medicine, etc than 100 years ago. The difference is that 100 years ago we would not have heard about famines in Africa or layoffs in another state.

Read the recent history of the Rwandan genocide.

Wikipedia says about 800,000 were killed, nearly all of them innocent of any crime. I had heard about this, but did not know it had been that bad. But what are you trying to say by this? If God will spare a city for one innocent man, then this genocide was an act of evil men, not a punishment for certain people offending God or abandoning their faith.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

The attitude of groups like “Truth Wins Out” is precisely that which infuriates me even more against the gay community and turns me against gay “rights” out of spite.

Their attitude is one that assumes that everybody wants to be like them. They think that every gay person should be out there practising in sin. It seems to be truly beyond their comprehension that any gay person could want to change, or abstain. According their faulty thinking, any gay person who doesn’t act like them has something wrong with their psychology, and it is the church’s fault for hurting their self esteem. And they cite stuff like suicides to try and give their garbage some weight. All it does is make gay Christians feel even worse about themselves.

I love them as people, but I truly hate their attitude. If only they knew what they’re really doing to homosexual and bisexual Christians. It is their kind of attitude that made me feel so alone. It took me a long time to reconcile myself, and for a long time, people like them made me feel bad for choosing to be straight and abstain from homosexual activities.

Honestly, we need more groups for people like me who are born with urges that they want to supress. I’m tired of the voice of people like “Truth Wins Out” being the loudest and seemingly only voice to LGB people.

Please know that the important view you expressed is noted in this forum by me and many others. Don’t be discouraged in having your voice heard. You are not alone. Other admitted homosexual members of CAF have said the same thing about gay agenda driven activists. They wish to silence the wishes of Christian homosexuals and bisexuals who carry the burden of disordered desire but also realize that indulgence in the sin is not how a life of grace is to be lived.

God loves you.
,

 

[grandfather]

grandfather;9439484:

I am trying to interpret the meaning of the author, whoever he was.
Are you honestly making the case that homosexuality is worse than rape? That God would not have been angry if the crowd had accepted the offer of the daughters, and if the crowd had politely invited the guests to a gay orgy, God would still have destroyed the city? If so, then our ideas of God and morality are too different for us to have a meaningful conversation; if not, then the main

point of the story is that rape is unacceptable.

Of course I am not making that case. The narrative was about the intention of a mob intent on homosexual rape. There really is nothing to interpret. It has nothing to do with a being worse than b. The facts of the story are what they are. There is nothing hypothetical about it, or anything to distinguish between which evil is worse than which. Dinah was raped. God did not destroy the rapists. Her brother did. Rape has been going on throughout history and in some cases mass rape. Today our society is turning to the evils of Sodom. We shall see where that leads.

These are all very bad things. But when you look at the murder rate, per capita

, that is decreasing overall, even if particular places have become worse than they were before. The economy has become worse in the past five years, especially in Detroit, but overall people have far better access to food, shelter, medicine, etc than 100 years ago. The difference is that 100 years ago we would not have heard about famines in Africa or layoffs in another state.

The Vatican said five or ten years ago that since the biofuel to replace pertoleum got underway another 75 million people in poverty who were on the edge have been starved, because they are unable to afford food. The idea that the world is the same or better off than it was throughout history, but now we know about all the ills humanity suffers thanks to modern communcations is hypothetical. In the last century there were genocides in Armenia, Germany, Cambodia (40% of the population), Sudan, Rwanda, Russia, China where millions were murdered. The contention that this happened in every century, but no one knew of it is absurd.

Wikipedia says about 800,000 were killed, nearly all of them innocent of any crime. I had heard about this, but did not know it had been that bad. But what are you trying to say by this? If God will spare a city for one innocent man, then this genocide was an act of evil men, not a punishment for certain people offending God or abandoning their faith.

Jesus spoke of an event where numberous people were killed. He spoke of a man born blind and whose fault it was, if it was a punishment from God for him or his parents. Bad things happen to good people. Innocent infants get brain tumors. That has nothing to do with the cause of the destruction of Sodom and the Sodomites. The connection is not there.

In the headline news this day is the story of a depraved man convicted of homosexual crimes with many children. There can be no question of whether or not what he did was depraved and evil. We see that depravity exists. How this man became what he did, to do such evil tihngs, we do not know. The question is not whether or not people’s sexual behavior can fall into a category that is classified as evil, but which behavior is evil and which is not. There is no in between. A behavior is virtuous or evil.

Our society is very confused. We struggle with understanding things that people have undertood for millenia, not simply about sex. In this confusion we are trying to create a novel moral codde by changing the one we have always held, the foundation of our civilization, to fit our current confused sensibilities which tells us to cast aside behavioral restraint and do whatever feels good. Self control is out and self indulgence is in. This takes us further and further down the road to greater depravity.

Large infernos begin with a spark. If you think our culture is healthier today than in times past then think it. It won’t help to debate it.

 

[grandfather]

Also in the news today we see that a homosexual contingent was invited to the White House by the president to honor them for being deviant. I do not use the term as a perjorative. They proudly took a picture of themselves making vulgar signs to a portrait of a past president to show the world, to make a statement of who they are. They call this pride.

Indeed they display who they are.

And their apologists claim the Catholic Church harms them by telling them they are disordered.

I have walked the streets of San Francisco, the gay mecca and seen the repulsiveness on public display. I have also visited Mother Teresa’s hospice in that city for the victims of the depravity of the bath house orgies, reaching out in mercy and love to the lost in their last days, volunteers changing their diapers and feeding and bathing them, comforting and holding their hands as they decay and die.

Tell us Catholic teaching harms gays. Only a mind deceived and blinded by the depravity of our time could make such a claim.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Of course I am not making that case. The narrative was about the intention of a mob intent on homosexual rape. There really is nothing to interpret. It has nothing to do with a being worse than b. The facts of the story are what they are. There is nothing hypothetical about it, or anything to distinguish between which evil is worse than which. Dinah was raped. God did not destroy the rapists. Her brother did. Rape has been going on throughout history and in some cases mass rape. Today our society is turning to the evils of Sodom. We shall see where that leads.

The Vatican said five or ten years ago that since the biofuel to replace pertoleum got underway another 75 million people in poverty who were on the edge have been starved, because they are unable to afford food. The idea that the world is the same or better off than it was throughout history, but now we know about all the ills humanity suffers thanks to modern communcations is hypothetical. In the last century there were genocides in Armenia, Germany, Cambodia (40% of the population), Sudan, Rwanda, Russia, China where millions were murdered. The contention that this happened in every century, but no one knew of it is absurd.

Jesus spoke of an event where numberous people were killed. He spoke of a man born blind and whose fault it was, if it was a punishment from God for him or his parents. Bad things happen to good people. Innocent infants get brain tumors. That has nothing to do with the cause of the destruction of Sodom and the Sodomites. The connection is not there.

In the headline news this day is the story of a depraved man convicted of homosexual crimes with many children. There can be no question of whether or not what he did was depraved and evil. We see that depravity exists. How this man became what he did, to do such evil tihngs, we do not know. The question is not whether or not people’s sexual behavior can fall into a category that is classified as evil, but which behavior is evil and which is not. There is no in between. A behavior is virtuous or evil.

Our society is very confused. We struggle with understanding things that people have undertood for millenia, not simply about sex. In this confusion we are trying to create a novel moral codde by changing the one we have always held, the foundation of our civilization, to fit our current confused sensibilities which tells us to cast aside behavioral restraint and do whatever feels good. Self control is out and self indulgence is in. This takes us further and further down the road to greater depravity.

Large infernos begin with a spark. If you think our culture is healthier today than in times past then think it. It won’t help to debate it.

In the Middle East sodomisation of men is used as a way to completely strip them of their dignity and masculinity, to make them no longer human. In the Middle East a common way to attack gays is to sodomise them, from the Western perspective that makes zero sense, but from the Middle Eastern perspective it makes plenty.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Also in the news today we see that a homosexual contingent was invited to the White House by the president to honor them for being deviant. I do not use the term as a perjorative. They proudly took a picture of themselves making vulgar signs to a portrait of a past president to show the world, to make a statement of who they are. They call this pride.

Indeed they display who they are.

And their apologists claim the Catholic Church harms them by telling them they are disordered.

I have walked the streets of San Francisco, the gay mecca and seen the repulsiveness on public display. I have also visited Mother Teresa’s hospice in that city for the victims of the depravity of the bath house orgies, reaching out in mercy and love to the lost in their last days, volunteers changing their diapers and feeding and bathing them, comforting and holding their hands as they decay and die.

Tell us Catholic teaching harms gays. Only a mind deceived and blinded by the depravity of our time could make such a claim.

They also forget the role of now closed St. Vincent’s Medical Center in Manhattan, landmark Catholic institution that served as the epicenter of response to the AIDS epidemic in Manhattan in the 1980’s. It was “ground zero” during the biggest health crisis to hit the gay population. When the full story of the 20th and 21st-century St. Vincent’s is written, its competent and compassionate response to persons with HIV/AIDS surely deserves a central chapter.

The Sisters of Charity running St. Vincent’s, cared for sick and dying HIV/AIDS patients during that crisis. They were unsung heroes. Among many were these notable sisters:The name of SR. PATRICE MURPHY, SC, is legendary in AIDS ministry. A nurse for many years, Sr. Patrice directed St. Vincent’s hospice program for the terminally ill. When the world began to take note of AIDS, Sr. Patrice with her staff of nurses, social workers and volunteers pioneered in extending hospice services to persons with AIDS. Patients were cared for in their own homes as well as in the hospital. Sr. Patrice developed an innovative 7-week training program for volunteers, and wrote proposals that successfully won private funding to keep the Supportive Care Program going.

SR. PATRICIA LAWLOR, SC, served as a Chaplain with the Supportive Care Program at St. Vincent’s Medical Center, Manhattan, from 1986 to 2006. She worked closely with Sr. Patrice Murphy. Among her patients were many persons with AIDS. Sr. Pat recalled two of the many people whose stories touched her.

One young man with AIDS who was in the Intensive Care unit asked her to say some prayers with him. Sr. Pat said, “So I prayed the 23rd Psalm because I knew that was a favorite of his. When we finished he said, ‘That was like a shot of morphine. ‘”

Another patient with AIDS was particularly difficult to work with. Sr. Pat felt that she wasn’t doing much with or for him. One morning as she went into his room, he took her hand and said, “I’ll see you on the other side.” “What do you mean?” Sr. Pat said. He replied, “I’m going to go to heaven today and when I go I’ll wait for you and I’ll see you there.” When Sr. Pat asked the nurses if there was some change in his condition, they assured her that he was still the same. “He died that day,” marveled Sr. Pat. “He knew he was dying. And all the time I thought I wasn’t making any impact.”

SR. CATHERINE SHERRY, SC, served as Administrative Director of Pathology and Laboratories at St.,Vincent’s, Manhattan, for many years. At the height of AIDS in the 1980’s, she recalled, “We’d have 100 (name removed by moderator)atients with HIV. Now nobody goes to the hospital. In a relatively short period of time, they’ve made such terrific strides in HIV treatment.”

When AIDS was first diagnosed, even some experienced health professionals were fearful of treating AIDS patients. SR. MIRIAM KEVIN PHILLIPS, SC, assistant director of St. Vincent’s Nursing School, recalls fielding calls from concerned parents of student nurses. She and SR. MARY ROBERT NAGLE, SC, director, told them in no uncertain terms, “A nurse’s role is to care for patients, regardless of their disease or condition.”

When St. Vincent’s expanded Spellman 5 as an AIDS unit in the early 1990’s, SR. ALICE WARD, SC, served as a nursing assistant there. With the advent of better drug therapies, she saw patients improve rapidly. While a seasoned high school teacher/media specialist, Sr. Alice volunteered with AIDS patients at St. Clare’s Hospital, Manhattan, an experience that led her into training as a nursing assistant until she retired in 2009. “It’s not my work: my hands are His,” she said of her ministry, “If He wants me in this work, He’ll help me do it.”

from Celebrating the “Sisters” on World AIDS Day

 

[grandfather]

They also forget the role of now closed St. Vincent’s Medical Center in Manhattan, landmark Catholic institution that served as the epicenter of response to the AIDS epidemic in Manhattan in the 1980’s. It was “ground zero” during the biggest health crisis to hit the gay population. When the full story of the 20th and 21st-century St. Vincent’s is written, its competent and compassionate response to persons with HIV/AIDS surely deserves a central chapter.

I knew a man who volunteered for five years in Mother Teresa’s AIDS hospice in San Francisco. He cared for the dying men day and night with no pay. He is a priest today. I asked him if they ever lost any. He looked shocked and said, no, never. They came in often hostile. It is difficult to remain hostile towards people who accept you when you are helpless and show you nothing but kindness. They always knew when death neared and all the nuns gathered around the bed and prayed with the dying, sending them off in peace. When you walked in that place it was like leaving earth. The air inside was different. You could feel God’s holy presence in every room.

 

[prodigalson2011]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies; especially those of you with SSA. I accepted the Church’s teaching on this matter after many many hours of study and reflection, but it seems sometimes some of that “knowledge” I acquired slips out of my conscious reach and I start to doubt. Thank you all for reminding me!

 

[RiverTam51]

RiverTam51;9442060:

grandfather;9439484:

Of course I am not making that case. The narrative was about the intention of a mob intent on homosexual rape. There really is nothing to interpret. It has nothing to do with a being worse than b. The facts of the story are what they are. There is nothing hypothetical about it, or anything to distinguish between which evil is worse than which. Dinah was raped. God did not destroy the rapists. Her brother did. Rape has been going on throughout history and in some cases mass rape. Today our society is turning to the evils of Sodom. We shall see where that leads.

Our society is not turning to the evils of sodom. In the sodom story, the men attempted homosexual rape. Nobody is denying the evil of that. What I am arguing is that the story in no way condemns consentual homosexual sex. This is what is on the rise in our society-the ability for men and women with homosexual attraction to act on these without being killed, imprisoned, or ostracized. So far as I know, homosexual rape is not on the rise.
And everyone is grateful for the Church’s charity in regards to men with AIDS. Only the very radical argue that Catholics have only bad intent towards homosexuals. What I am saying is that because you have our best intents in mind, you (Catholics in general) should reconsider what you preach in regards to homosexuals. While the structure of Catholicism obviously cannot change, and the Church will never approve of gay marriage, much is still “up in the air,” and unsettled: why some people are attracted to the same gender, whether this is temporary or permanent, and what language to use. The truth on these is of course unchanging. But when theologians and authors recklessly throw around terms like “abomination” and “having SSA,” they are not just affecting their sphere of theological thought. They are telling the young homosexual Catholics who look to them for answers or comfort, that they are diseased and monstrous. The charitable thing to do in this case is to think about the potential readers before making these theories public.

 

[sw85]

But what in the world is offensive about talking about people “having SSA”? It is objectively more appropriate to speak of than something as nebulous and unworkable as “homosexuality,” for reasons I outlined earlier in the thread.

 

[Elizabeth502]

when theologians and authors recklessly throw around terms like “abomination” and “having SSA,” they are not just affecting their sphere of theological thought. They are telling the young homosexual Catholics who look to them for answers or comfort, that they are diseased and monstrous. The charitable thing to do in this case is to think about the potential readers before making these theories public.

First of all, not many “theologians and authors” “throw around terms like ‘abomination.’” As to the phrase, “having SSA,” it is a legitimate phrase for the purpose of moral theology. It’s not an indictment in itself, as the Church has carefully & repeatedly pointed out. A disordered attraction is not the same thing as “diseased.” Most of us have vairous forms of disordered attractions, most of them bound up in the Seven Capital Sins; we’re attracted to those Capital Sins because they are indeed very attractive! And if we indulge those too much, those vices can dis-order our lives so much as to cause us to become morally & spiritually diseased.

That’s what the Sacraments and Catholic spirituality are all about: to heal us of our very real spiritual diseases and restore us to health.

 

[Seeker1961]

Regarding " labels "-- vocabulary/ language is an anthropological component of culture. A common English definition of homosexual is a person who is attracted mentally, emotionally, psychologically and sexually to members of his/ her own sex. This is actually the first definition I heard when I was 12 yrs old.it defines attractions not actions. ( and yes there are people who engage in homosexual actions who do not fit that def.) In my culture that def is widely accepted as a def. of homosexual . And so I do apply it to myself. If the issue comes up, I explain that I am chaste according to church teaching.

That’s exactly my experience. I have never used SSA to define myself, mostly because it’s awkward. If the issue comes up, I either refer to myself as gay or homosexual. If the conversation has gotten that personal, I tell them I am Catholic and I follow the teaching of my church. I’ve found it can start some really good conversations about the church and Jesus.

 

[grandfather]

grandfather;9442814:

RiverTam51;9442060:

Our society is not turning to the evils of sodom. In the sodom story, the men attempted homosexual rape. Nobody is denying the evil of that. What I am arguing is that the story in no way condemns consentual homosexual sex. .

You are plainly deluded. The story tells us that God was going to destroy the city for its abominable ongoing immorality. This divine punishment was decided before the accoiunt of the angels and Lot. The city was a cesspool of filth as our culture is now becoming more and more. You are trying to contort the story to justify sin, seeing in it what you want to see.

We are all fallen. We reach out to one another in our fallen states whatever they are. Catholicism tells us that temptation is not sin. It says behavior is sin and that homosexual behavior is a grevous evil. Saying anything else would do no one any favors. It would be lying to you.

Catholic teaching only echoes what scripture tells us and what the Church has believed from the beginning. Saint Paul tells us that in the end times men would foresake women and become homosexual. Jesus tells us that as it was in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah so will it be in the time of His return. It is foretold and we are seeing it come to pass.

You plug your ears. You hear what you want to hear. You refuse to hear what the Church teaches, has always taught, will always teach and what the Bible says. We are all warned that if we do not repent we will be lost.

Jesus says to the pharisees, I came for sinners, but you say they have no sin, so I can not help you. That is the homosexual message of our day isn’t it. They have no sin and need no help.

There are two kinds of people on earth. There are penitent sinners and impenitent. If you insist you do not need mercy you can not have it.

Saint Peter writes that the spirit is at war with the flesh. It is not only homosexual flesh that is at war with the spirit. Each and every one of us struggles with sin. There are many homosexuals who hear the words of Jesus in scripture and the Church and do manage to overcome their temptations.

Those who insist this is impossible do not want to face the truth of it. There are people who left the lifestyle, had happy marriages and healthy families, thousands of them. They are shouted down, told they are liars and frauds. Doctors who treat the illness are condemned by their deluded peers. Our culture is a speeding train with the passengers having a grand party headed straight for hell and the devil is the conductor calling all aboard.

There is no hope for an alcoholic until he realizes and admits he needs help. If he believes help is impossible then he will never even attempt to attain sobriety. No matter the vice this is the case.

Get off the train while there is time, before it is too late.

The Church does not tell us to turn from evil, because it despises or condemns us. It does it to try to prevent us from being eternally lost. The warning is for our benefits. We can heed or ignore it. We can disbelieve it, or hear it.

All sin is an abomination. All of it is a crime against God. I am no different than you. We all do evil. I hope for mercy for both of us.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Our society is not turning to the evils of Sodom. In the Sodom story, the men attempted homosexual rape. Nobody is denying the evil of that. What I am arguing is that the story in no way condemns consensual homosexual sex. This is what is on the rise in our society-the ability for men and women with homosexual attraction to act on these without being killed, imprisoned, or ostracized. So far as I know, homosexual rape is not on the rise.
And everyone is grateful for the Church’s charity in regards to men with AIDS. Only the very radical argue that Catholics have only bad intent towards homosexuals. What I am saying is that because you have our best intents in mind, you (Catholics in general) should reconsider what you preach in regards to homosexuals. While the structure of Catholicism obviously cannot change, and the Church will never approve of gay marriage, much is still “up in the air,” and unsettled: why some people are attracted to the same gender, whether this is temporary or permanent, and what language to use. The truth on these is of course unchanging. But when theologians and authors recklessly throw around terms like “abomination” and “having SSA,” they are not just affecting their sphere of theological thought. They are telling the young homosexual Catholics who look to them for answers or comfort, that they are diseased and monstrous. The charitable thing to do in this case is to think about the potential readers before making these theories public.

Well yes the story of Sodom does not condemn consensual homosexual sex, but it is condemned in the New Testament so it’s actually irrelevant whether it is condemned in the Old Testament.

You are plainly deluded. The story tells us that God was going to destroy the city for its abominable ongoing immorality. This divine punishment was decided before the account of the angels and Lot. The city was a cesspool of filth as our culture is now becoming more and more. You are trying to contort the story to justify sin, seeing in it what you want to see.

We are all fallen. We reach out to one another in our fallen states whatever they are. Catholicism tells us that temptation is not sin. It says behavior is sin and that homosexual behavior is a grievous evil. Saying anything else would do no one any favors. It would be lying to you.

Catholic teaching only echoes what scripture tells us and what the Church has believed from the beginning. Saint Paul tells us that in the end times men would foresake women and become homosexual. Jesus tells us that as it was in the time of Sodom and Gomorrah so will it be in the time of His return. It is foretold and we are seeing it come to pass.

You plug your ears. You hear what you want to hear. You refuse to hear what the Church teaches, has always taught, will always teach and what the Bible says. We are all warned that if we do not repent we will be lost.

Jesus says to the pharisees, I came for sinners, but you say they have no sin, so I can not help you. That is the homosexual message of our day isn’t it. They have no sin and need no help.

There are two kinds of people on earth. There are penitent sinners and impenitent. If you insist you do not need mercy you can not have it.

Saint Peter writes that the spirit is at war with the flesh. It is not only homosexual flesh that is at war with the spirit. Each and every one of us struggles with sin. There are many homosexuals who hear the words of Jesus in scripture and the Church and do manage to overcome their temptations.

Those who insist this is impossible do not want to face the truth of it. There are people who left the lifestyle, had happy marriages and healthy families, thousands of them. They are shouted down, told they are liars and frauds. Doctors who treat the illness are condemned by their deluded peers. Our culture is a speeding train with the passengers having a grand party headed straight for hell and the devil is the conductor calling all aboard.

There is no hope for an alcoholic until he realizes and admits he needs help. If he believes help is impossible then he will never even attempt to attain sobriety. No matter the vice this is the case.

Get off the train while there is time, before it is too late.

The Church does not tell us to turn from evil, because it despises or condemns us. It does it to try to prevent us from being eternally lost. The warning is for our benefits. We can heed or ignore it. We can disbelieve it, or hear it.

All sin is an abomination. All of it is a crime against God. I am no different than you. We all do evil. I hope for mercy for both of us.

45 Thou art thy mother’s daughter, that cast off her husband, and her children: and thou art the sister of thy sisters, who cast off their husbands, and their children: your mother was a Cethite, and your father an Amorrhite.
46 And thy elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister that dwelleth at thy right hand is Sodom, and her daughters.
47 But neither hast thou walked in their ways, nor hast thou done a little less than they according to their wickednesses: **thou hast done almost more wicked things than they in all thy ways. **
48 As I live, saith the Lord God, thy sister Sodom herself, and her daughters, have not done as thou hast done, and thy daughters.
49 Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom thy sister, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance, and the idleness of her, and of her daughters: and they did not put forth their hand to the needy, and to the poor.
50 And they were lifted up, and committed abominations before me: and I took them away as thou hast seen.
51 And Samaria committed not half thy sins: but thou hast surpassed them with thy crimes, and hast justified thy sisters by all thy abominations which thou hast done.
52 Therefore do thou also bear thy confusion, thou that hast surpassed thy sisters with thy sins, doing more wickedly than they: for they are justified above thee, therefore be thou also confounded, and bear thy shame, thou that hast justified thy sisters.

Not sure I want to know what Jerusalem did…

They were vain, gluttons, sloth, lacking and charity and exceedingly cruel and of course they tried raping guests, very, very bad.

Why yes alcoholics need to ask for help, but how does someone who drinks way to much connect with someone who is attracted to guys, never has engaged with sex with them, but the feelings wont go away no matter how much he prays.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

…

Not sure I want to know what Jerusalem did…

They were vain, gluttons, sloth, lacking and charity and exceedingly cruel and of course they tried raping guests, very, very bad.
…

[49] Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom thy sister, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance, and the idleness of her, and of her daughters: and they did not put forth their hand to the needy, and to the poor. [50] And they were lifted up, and committed abominations before me: and I took them away as thou hast seen.

Dakota,

I don’t think you meant to underscore only Verse 49 and not Verse 50 of Ezekiel 16 as well, which specified abominations that would cover homosexuality, among the sins of Sodom.

…did an abomination (to’ebah) before me". to’ebah is the same word used when describing male-male intercourse in the Levitical prohibitions, it is an abomination (to’ebah).

At any rate, before gays get too anxious with this word that means abomination, as often is the case, the verse is clearly referring to acts, male-male sexual acts, not the person(s).
,

 

[grandfather]

Why yes alcoholics need to ask for help, but how does someone who drinks way to much connect with someone who is attracted to guys, never has engaged with sex with them, but the feelings wont go away no matter how much he prays.

Persist in prayer. Jesus tells us that perseverance is the key.

The alcoholic is always drawn to drink. The adulterer is always tempted by his neighbor’s wide. I know a man who is a compulsive liar. He makes up whoppers and can not stop himself.

Purity is possible. Believing this is the first step to achieving it. Self control or self mastery is possible. Finding a spiritual director and a good confessor might help.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The story of Sodom is about their inhospitality. I’m not saying anyone that has posted here is homophobic, but that is one possible reason for the misinterpretation, the thought that homosexuality is “icky” therefore it must be evil, therefore it must be condemned frequently throughout the Bible. Only it does not seem to be.

InSearchOfGrace:

At any rate, before gays get too anxious with this word that means abomination, as often is the case, the verse is clearly referring to acts, male-male sexual acts, not the person(s).

Talk to us about some of the other “abominations.” Some of them are funny.