Efficacy of prayers

[Joybearer]

Dear sisters and brothers in Christ

A question for all of you, I have been pondering over the efficacy of prayers and came across the following website which seems to have answered my doubts the most.

catholicdoors.com/courses/howtopray.htm

It’s a long wall of text but do take some time to read it and share your opinions with me. My main question is whether the efficacy of prayers will be affected by a person’s spiritual state/disposition and such. I have asked the question inaccurately in the past and asked instead on whether God will answer prayers when a person is in a state of mortal sin.

I have come across many who dismissed this question to “in God’s time” type of answers, I also acknowledge and understand that God has plans and as a free-agent will answer prayers in various manners including “no” and “I have something better”.

But if all things being equal, does being disposed actually turn the favor of God in our direction?

e.g. Will a novena of a mortal sinner be less likely answered than a person who still has the sanctifying grace?

Thank you

P.s. Forgive my lack in the grasp of the command of the language as I may come across rude or sound like I’m trying to manipulate God since I’m not familiar with the nuances of you guys.

 

[JM3]

archive.org/details/prayerkeysalvat00mlgoog

Chapter 8: On the conditions and qualities of prayer

 

[JRKH]

Your main question is actually quite a simple one…
My main question is whether the efficacy of prayers will be affected by a person’s spiritual state/disposition and such.
The answer is that indeed it will. Likewise the disposition of one’s spiritual state will be effected by prayer. The two things are intertwined.

Peace
James

 

[clem456]

Is prayer an effort-results endeavor?
God already knows all things. He knows what happened yesterday and what will happen tomorrow. Do our prayers change God? His will? His plans? He already knows the results. He IS the efficacy of our prayers. We do not know how to pray,
2

6In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

God is the source and efficacy of our prayers.

So what are we participating in when we pray? Are we bending God to our desires? I try to keep in mind that I have a relationship with God and I am speaking with him. Yes I bring other people, and my own issues, to God in my prayer. But I try to do it in a spirit of compassion and listening rather than getting results. So in that sense, I don’t worry about efficacy, I try to trust.

 

[Joybearer]

archive.org/details/prayerkeysalvat00mlgoog

Chapter 8: On the conditions and qualities of prayer

Reading it At the part of St Francis’ breakdown of Our Father, beautiful literature so far. Will come back with thoughts if I have any after completing the chapter.

 

[Joybearer]

Your main question is actually quite a simple one…
My main question is whether the efficacy of prayers will be affected by a person’s spiritual state/disposition and such.
The answer is that indeed it will. Likewise the disposition of one’s spiritual state will be effected by prayer. The two things are intertwined.

Peace
James

Since both are intertwined, doesn’t it mean that it’s just a cyclical attempt to change ourselves instead of obtaining favors from God? This somehow leads back to the trite but essential question of why prayer? Since the omnibenevolent One wills the best for us and His omniscience knows what our response will be. I understand that He takes into account our prayers from the very beginning since He is the author of creation, so does that mean that a person who prays less are favored less and less blessed?

Take for example, 2 students are suppose to take a test, and the teacher intends that both are to obtain a passing score for their tests so they may advance to a higher level, Student A is hardworking(pious and prayerful Catholic individual) and student B doesn’t study nor want to study at all(atheist). And in this world, the benevolent teacher has the authority to alter the test questions to help them achieve the passing. Naturally, the teacher will give the test with more difficult questions to the hardworking student and a comparatively easy one for student B.

With this analogous to God’s will for the salvation for humankind, God knows the atheist will not pray but yet plans the best for him, and of course the same for the Catholic as well. So doesn’t this make prayers redundant other than to dispose ourselves to accept whatever God gives us.

I hope I didn’t say anything heretical and forgive my bad analogy but there are lots of questions in my mind on this issue and I’m incapable of expressing it fully in words.

Thank you for answering, appreciate your help!

 

[JRKH]

Since both are intertwined, doesn’t it mean that it’s just a cyclical attempt to change ourselves instead of obtaining favors from God? This somehow leads back to the trite but essential question of why prayer? Since the omnibenevolent One wills the best for us and His omniscience knows what our response will be. I understand that He takes into account our prayers from the very beginning since He is the author of creation, so does that mean that a person who prays less are favored less and less blessed?

Take for example, 2 students are suppose to take a test, and the teacher intends that both are to obtain a passing score for their tests so they may advance to a higher level, Student A is hardworking(pious and prayerful Catholic individual) and student B doesn’t study nor want to study at all(atheist). And in this world, the benevolent teacher has the authority to alter the test questions to help them achieve the passing. Naturally, the teacher will give the test with more difficult questions to the hardworking student and a comparatively easy one for student B.

With this analogous to God’s will for the salvation for humankind, God knows the atheist will not pray but yet plans the best for him, and of course the same for the Catholic as well. So doesn’t this make prayers redundant other than to dispose ourselves to accept whatever God gives us.

I hope I didn’t say anything heretical and forgive my bad analogy but there are lots of questions in my mind on this issue and I’m incapable of expressing it fully in words.

Thank you for answering, appreciate your help!

Not sure how to respond to what you wrote here…It’s late and maybe I’m not understanding since I’m kind of y.
But I have to say that I don’t think God is going to give us different tests…The test is the same test for all of us.

Perhaps I should come back to this tomorrow when I’m rested - - -

Peace
James

 

[Joybearer]

Is prayer an effort-results endeavor?
God already knows all things. He knows what happened yesterday and what will happen tomorrow. Do our prayers change God? His will? His plans? He already knows the results. He IS the efficacy of our prayers. We do not know how to pray,
2
God is the source and efficacy of our prayers.

So what are we participating in when we pray? Are we bending God to our desires? I try to keep in mind that I have a relationship with God and I am speaking with him. Yes I bring other people, and my own issues, to God in my prayer. But I try to do it in a spirit of compassion and listening rather than getting results. So in that sense, I don’t worry about efficacy, I try to trust.

I hope I’m understanding it correctly. Most of what you’ve said are in the form of questions. I’ve mentioned earlier that I’m unfamiliar with nuances of the West and so I will need to answer them to derive your answer from there.

A1 Effort-results, that was the question I had in mind, from what I have read from various christian literature, I highly doubt so, but it seems to be “more efficient” if one is properly disposed?(also my question here on this thread)

A2 I believe that God is immutable, unchanging and completely self-sufficient. So our prayers do not change Him so no. His will, no again, since if He does not will it, we humans can’t even conceive of it in our puny minds. His plans, I believe that it can change to a certain extend since we are given free-will, but i guess He always has something else if a plan goes awry.

A3 I don’t believe that we can bend God to our desires but what about the differences in favor? A secular example is perhaps that we know that as a norm, parents love their children all the same but will favor a child who is well-behaved, has a better score in SATs, clean the dishes and takes out the thrash without being told.

“God is the source and efficacy of our prayers”

I don’t fully understand this but does this mean that the efficacy depends on Him alone no matter our dispositions? Since all in all we can do nothing to change anything that He has decided.

I think I understand where you are coming from, I too strive to not worry about efficacy and learn to trust in the love of God.

But firstly, I’ll be honest that it’s difficult seeing “granted prayers” by a Catholic friend who claims to be in mortal sin, protestant brethren having massive(emotional, material and spiritual) prosperity in their lives, atheists having the time of their lives all around me and a simple request of mine after years of silence is still nothing. I want to know how to prayer

Secondly, I my main intention is not to manipulate God, but to understand what is best in bringing Him the perfect ‘flower’ as mentioned in the website that I gave and the non defective ‘messengers’ mentioned in the literature provided by JM3 earlier. I know this sounds rather hypocritical after the first point, but I believe it’s a more of mixture of feelings, more emphasis on the second.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate your thoughts and insight

 

[Joybearer]

Not sure how to respond to what you wrote here…It’s late and maybe I’m not understanding since I’m kind of y.
But I have to say that I don’t think God is going to give us different tests…The test is the same test for all of us.

Perhaps I should come back to this tomorrow when I’m rested - - -

Peace
James

I’m on the other side on the world so I’ve just woke up.

Forgive my poor analogy, let’s take it that the test is the same(same world) different test questions(environment, relatives, rights, etc.), I’m unfamiliar with the education system on your side so I’m wouldn’t want to throw in more confusion with further examples. I mean some people are battling chronic diseases, suffering pain I cannot imagine, living in zinc plated slums, working in sweat shops, whereas some having material wealth with fully functional bodies without any chronic physical pain and fulfilling relationships.

Don’t you think these people have tougher “test questions”? And to my limited experience, those who religious are more commonly the more unfortunate ones and the unreligious ones are better off in this secular life. Of course, there are also seemingly pious Catholics who have done well in secular standards and unreligious who are suffering but the odds are in the favor of the non Catholics.

Hope I’m not digressing too much from the topic here.

 

[wcknight]

I believe God is more likely to answer your prayer if you are in the state of grace. If you want your prayers answered there are considerations that you need to follow.

One have faith. Jesus tells us a little bit of faith will move mountains. Approach God with humility and a contrite heart. Believe that God will answer your prayer. Have confidence and trust that God will do as you ask. Act and believe as if your prayer has already been answered.

Be willing to trust that God knows what is best for us. Answering our prayer as presented may not be in our long term best interest. Remember God knows best, He will not give us something that is bad for us no matter how hard we ask.

Be patient and persistent. Ask and keep on asking, remember the story of the bad judge and the lady that pesters him constantly.

And last, my secret weapon, ask little children (your children if you have them) to pray for your cause, Jesus tells us their angels are always in God’s presence.

 

[Joybearer]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Wcknight

In an earlier post I mentioned that it seems that the impious people around me are more likely be granted favors. Thus, my question comes partly comes from that observation and so, I’m curious whether being in a state of grace actually matters.

On your first point, I think this is an issue with human frailty, too many disappointments from God on the same issue drives me away from having faith. I pray for an increase of faith everyday but with all the “false hope” that I have been given time again, I have developed a kind of rejection against faith and hope on that particular issue.

Oops, bad habit, I will try to not go on wallowing

humble and contrite heart, apparent in all scriptures, and I’ve tried to no avail.

I’m sorry Wcknight, but all of these I have tried except the part about young children(I have none and don’t have ones who are close enough to ask for their prayers). None of these seem to work with me.

My apologies again, I wasn’t trying to disagree with nearly everything that you have said, I do agree with the part that God knows what’s best for us and won’t grant us things that are bad for us. Seems like it’s back to waiting and praying I guess.

 

[Viki63]

St Joan of Arc, asked if she was in a state of grace, said “If I am not, may God place me there; if I am, may God so keep me. I should be the saddest in all the world if I knew that I were not in the grace of God.”

I don’t understand why any Catholic in mortal sin would say a novena, instead of repenting, going to confession and returning to a state of grace. Why would he want to offend God by staying in mortal sin?

I’m sorry you don’t find your prayers being answered. Sometimes our prayers are for others, and God needs time to work in their lives to see results. Sometimes he has plans for us that we don’t know about or would not understand. Jesus advised us to pray and not weary, and told the parable of the judge, who gave in after being importuned frequently. Not that God needs to be harassed, but he wants us to keep asking and not lose heart.

 

[Joybearer]

Thanks for the reply

Well, there are various reasons/excuses why a Catholic doesn’t want to participate in the sacrament of reconciliation. But that doesn’t mean that they are not repentant, though I wouldn’t think that they are perfectly contrite. Some of the reasons are as follows:

Confession requires a great amount of humility as it’s telling of one’s sins to another human being.

Confession is a chore; needing to grab busy priests in parishes that don’t practice confession before Sunday Masses. Especially when that other parishes are unfamiliar

Fear; I have heard from older folks in their senior years having not participated in even one confession(they may have forgotten since I believe it’s a requirement of at least one confession in RCIA or before 1st communion if they’re cradle).

I can list more but the reasons are mostly similar, more often than not I would say that they do not comprehend the power of confession and the forgiveness of sins with the priest in persona Christi.

Some of these people attend weekly novenas, pray the rosary and Divine Mercy regularly, and they admit to certain mortal sins(Since I’m no seer of souls, I will take their word for it), some blatantly even, yet they too require assistance from God.

Nevertheless, this ‘Catholic in mortal sin’ is a hypothetical person just for the sake of the question. All I’m saying is that it’s possible that a Catholic will very likely stay in mortal sin and say a novena for some intention.

And like I’ve mentioned in my previous reply, I have been praying for years for this same intention and have done what was suggested by wcknight to no avail(other than asking children to pray).

Not to be cynical but I’m growing weary of people telling me that God has a plan and knows the right time. For others, God required them to wait, for my request, I was given false hope and disappointment time and again. And each time, things were placed in such a way that I would conceive a certain thought.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution Viki63

 

[JRKH]

Since both are intertwined, doesn’t it mean that it’s just a cyclical attempt to change ourselves instead of obtaining favors from God?

Is it cynical to try to change ourselves for the better in order to more fully please the one we love? I never thought so.
As an example…I loved my wife dearly and she me. We fully accepted each other in as we were in that love. Yet - even though we already had that love and acceptance, were willing to do anything we could for the other. That naturally entailed change - which enabled us to know each other better and to love each other more fully.
To me - this is not cynical at all but is as it should be.
What would be cynical is the view that one ought not change, but only seek favors from the other.

This somehow leads back to the trite but essential question of why prayer? Since the omnibenevolent One wills the best for us and His omniscience knows what our response will be. I understand that He takes into account our prayers from the very beginning since He is the author of creation, so does that mean that a person who prays less are favored less and less blessed?

RE - the bolded - Short answer is yes…but not because God does not favor them or blesses them but rather because they simply do not avail themselves of the blessings.

As a rather simplistic example, let us say I lay out a table full of food for you to eat, but you refuse to eat it. Are you less nourished? Certainly. But have I “blessed you less”? certainly not.
The question might asked - Why do you choose not to eat? The answer might be that you are looking for a specific food, prepared in a certain way and you are not looking at any of the other food there. This is what happens sometimes when people pray for certain specific things and they don’t get them. They have “tunnel vision” and cannot see the many other blessings available to them.

I’m on the other side on the world so I’ve just woke up.

Forgive my poor analogy, let’s take it that the test is the same(same world) different test questions(environment, relatives, rights, etc.), I’m unfamiliar with the education system on your side so I’m wouldn’t want to throw in more confusion with further examples. I mean some people are battling chronic diseases, suffering pain I cannot imagine, living in zinc plated slums, working in sweat shops, whereas some having material wealth with fully functional bodies without any chronic physical pain and fulfilling relationships.

Don’t you think these people have tougher “test questions”? And to my limited experience, those who religious are more commonly the more unfortunate ones and the unreligious ones are better off in this secular life. Of course, there are also seemingly pious Catholics who have done well in secular standards and unreligious who are suffering but the odds are in the favor of the non Catholics.

Hope I’m not digressing too much from the topic here.

Yes in some ways I agree that some have tougher test questions than others. Yet the test really remains the same. The test is how firmly and fully we embrace and reflect Agape.
Look at the Gospels and see how important Agape (Love) is:
Agape is the root of all the law and prophets (Mt 22:36-40).
Jesus command to us is to love others as He has loved us (John13:34-35).
We are to be perfect in Love (Mt 5:43-48)
Love is greater and more necessary than either faith or hope (1 Cor 13:1-13)
Love is the very essence of God (1 John 4:7-8)

We all face differing challenges in our lives. As you say some have more material wealth…some have greater physical wealth. Others are challenged through poverty and disease…
Yet consider too that very often wealth and health can cause one to become spiritually lax. Sins of pride, greed and presumption creep in. People who have little and who perhaps struggle with poor health can be more aware of their dependence on others. They can develop the great traits of the humble spirit, a spirit of giving and of gratitude for the help they receive from others.

So - Spiritually speaking - which of these two above are “more blessed”.

Remember that the wealthy person does not take their wealth with them…nor do they take their physical health with them. It is only their spiritual wealth and health that really matter.
And in some ways, the poor and the sick have the greater opportunity to recognize this.
So - again - who is really the more blessed?

In either case…the more blessed is not the one who has received this or that corporeal blessing - but rather it is the one who is able to see the spiritual bounty laid before them - regardless of their circumstances.

Prayer aids us in understanding this.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

In an earlier post I mentioned that it seems that the impious people around me are more likely be granted favors. Thus, my question comes partly comes from that observation and so, I’m curious whether being in a state of grace actually matters.

Are these people actually being granted favors or are they being given additional temptations?

Consider - the third temptation that the devil used on Jesus…
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them; and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” (Mt 4:8-9)
You say that these people are “impious” - if so - then who are they likely worshiping? Is is God or is is something else? I cannot say for sure…but my point is this…worldly “favors” may or may not be of God.
Just something to consider prayerfully.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Dear sisters and brothers in Christ

A question for all of you, I have been pondering over the efficacy of prayers and came across the following website which seems to have answered my doubts the most.

catholicdoors.com/courses/howtopray.htm

It’s a long wall of text but do take some time to read it and share your opinions with me. My main question is whether the efficacy of prayers will be affected by a person’s spiritual state/disposition and such. I have asked the question inaccurately in the past and asked instead on whether God will answer prayers when a person is in a state of mortal sin.

I have come across many who dismissed this question to “in God’s time” type of answers, I also acknowledge and understand that God has plans and as a free-agent will answer prayers in various manners including “no” and “I have something better”.

But if all things being equal, does being disposed actually turn the favor of God in our direction?

e.g. Will a novena of a mortal sinner be less likely answered than a person who still has the sanctifying grace?

Thank you

P.s. Forgive my lack in the grasp of the command of the language as I may come across rude or sound like I’m trying to manipulate God since I’m not familiar with the nuances of you guys.

One other thought on the issue of the efficacy of prayer by a “mortal sinner”…By definition, one who is in a state of unrepentant mortal sin is unlikely to pray. The very act of prayer indicates at least the beginnings of repentance. So for this reason, I don’t really think that a “mortal sinner” is going to be praying a novena - certainly not an unrepentant mortal sinner.

And your command of the language is very good…

Peace
James

 

[Joybearer]

Is it cynical to try to change ourselves for the better in order to more fully please the one we love? I never thought so.
As an example…I loved my wife dearly and she me. We fully accepted each other in as we were in that love. Yet - even though we already had that love and acceptance, were willing to do anything we could for the other. That naturally entailed change - which enabled us to know each other better and to love each other more fully.
To me - this is not cynical at all but is as it should be.
What would be cynical is the view that one ought not change, but only seek favors from the other.

RE - the bolded - Short answer is yes…but not because God does not favor them or blesses them but rather because they simply do not avail themselves of the blessings.

As a rather simplistic example, let us say I lay out a table full of food for you to eat, but you refuse to eat it. Are you less nourished? Certainly. But have I “blessed you less”? certainly not.
The question might asked - Why do you choose not to eat? The answer might be that you are looking for a specific food, prepared in a certain way and you are not looking at any of the other food there. This is what happens sometimes when people pray for certain specific things and they don’t get them. They have “tunnel vision” and cannot see the many other blessings available to them.

Yes in some ways I agree that some have tougher test questions than others. Yet the test really remains the same. The test is how firmly and fully we embrace and reflect Agape.
Look at the Gospels and see how important Agape (Love) is:
Agape is the root of all the law and prophets (Mt 22:36-40).
Jesus command to us is to love others as He has loved us (John13:34-35).
We are to be perfect in Love (Mt 5:43-48)
Love is greater and more necessary than either faith or hope (1 Cor 13:1-13)
Love is the very essence of God (1 John 4:7-8)

We all face differing challenges in our lives. As you say some have more material wealth…some have greater physical wealth. Others are challenged through poverty and disease…
Yet consider too that very often wealth and health can cause one to become spiritually lax. Sins of pride, greed and presumption creep in. People who have little and who perhaps struggle with poor health can be more aware of their dependence on others. They can develop the great traits of the humble spirit, a spirit of giving and of gratitude for the help they receive from others.

So - Spiritually speaking - which of these two above are “more blessed”.

Remember that the wealthy person does not take their wealth with them…nor do they take their physical health with them. It is only their spiritual wealth and health that really matter.
And in some ways, the poor and the sick have the greater opportunity to recognize this.
So - again - who is really the more blessed?

In either case…the more blessed is not the one who has received this or that corporeal blessing - but rather it is the one who is able to see the spiritual bounty laid before them - regardless of their circumstances.

Prayer aids us in understanding this.

Peace
James

Thanks James for the sharing such great insight!

I have to clarify that I was talking about cyclical, and not cynical in my post. I hope that it isn’t a wrong use of the word. Since I was asking about the efficacy of prayers, I was curious on whether God will do something “more” if one is more disposed, in the state of grace, etc. It doesn’t sound really much of a relationship if only one party asks and and changes himself and the other party does what she intends from the very beginning.

I did not do a thorough study on blessed Mother Teresa but it seems like what she was saying in her life seem to point in that direction. Which in essence is: we pray for God to do something about something, we do it ourselves, and lo and behold, that favor is granted.

I’m incapable of expressing that thought with my words, so I will have to say it bluntly and with the help of an analogy.

Wouldn’t that make prayer useless? That’s like a child asking his parent for some money to buy something, but the parent stayed silent, and eventually he saved up his pocket money to buy that desired object. If that child knew from the beginning that the parent would not do anything more, he could have not asked and just saved up. Keeping in mind that from the very beginning, there was pocket money from that parent and the parent did not do anything more than to give the initial amount that was arbitrarily decided.

to be cont…

 

[Joybearer]

cont…

As a rather simplistic example, let us say I lay out a table full of food for you to eat, but you refuse to eat it. Are you less nourished? Certainly. But have I “blessed you less”? certainly not.
The question might asked - Why do you choose not to eat? The answer might be that you are looking for a specific food, prepared in a certain way and you are not looking at any of the other food there. This is what happens sometimes when people pray for certain specific things and they don’t get them. They have “tunnel vision” and cannot see the many other blessings available to them.

I love this example!

However, looking at the case of king Solomon, if he were to not ask for wisdom and asked instead for a long life, riches or the lives of his enemies, wouldn’t that ‘table of food’ be taken away entirely? I would say that at that time he was properly disposed and God favored him hence, blessings was poured out to him.

I agree with the part on tunnel vision, sometimes, we have so much and yet we think we’re so poor. Indeed, I’m guilty of looking for a specific kind of food, but this food is essential, without it, hardly will I ever be happy, I see this food on tables of so many of those who don’t appreciate it, some have an excess of it and takes a bite off every good piece of it and tossed the uneaten parts on the ground where they just rot or carried by the rats into the abyss. If I am to get my hands on this food, I will savor it with delight, with joy and appreciation not wasting a morsel of it. I’m even willing to give up some other food for this, but it seems like God doesn’t want me to have this food even with such a ‘deal’.

Yes in some ways I agree that some have tougher test questions than others. Yet the test really remains the same. The test is how firmly and fully we embrace and reflect Agape.
Look at the Gospels and see how important Agape (Love) is:
Agape is the root of all the law and prophets (Mt 22:36-40).
Jesus command to us is to love others as He has loved us (John13:34-35).
We are to be perfect in Love (Mt 5:43-48)
Love is greater and more necessary than either faith or hope (1 Cor 13:1-13)
Love is the very essence of God (1 John 4:7-8)

We all face differing challenges in our lives. As you say some have more material wealth…some have greater physical wealth. Others are challenged through poverty and disease…
Yet consider too that very often wealth and health can cause one to become spiritually lax. Sins of pride, greed and presumption creep in. People who have little and who perhaps struggle with poor health can be more aware of their dependence on others. They can develop the great traits of the humble spirit, a spirit of giving and of gratitude for the help they receive from others.

So - Spiritually speaking - which of these two above are “more blessed”.

Remember that the wealthy person does not take their wealth with them…nor do they take their physical health with them. It is only their spiritual wealth and health that really matter.
And in some ways, the poor and the sick have the greater opportunity to recognize this.
So - again - who is really the more blessed?

In either case…the more blessed is not the one who has received this or that corporeal blessing - but rather it is the one who is able to see the spiritual bounty laid before them - regardless of their circumstances.

Prayer aids us in understanding this.

Peace
James

I don’t understand what you mean by reflecting on Agape, forgive my ignorance but isn’t Agape the unconditional love of God? If we focus on His unconditional love, how will things change? Since even in prayer He doesn’t change anything but want us to change ourselves.

I wouldn’t say that the people who has little are more spiritually blessed. I came across some poor who has to worry what to eat for their next meal, eating and drinking leftovers in eateries. Many of them resent God for their lots in life, as well as those who are chronically ill, always in pain and always asking God to take it away to no avail. I can’t even look at them without tearing up. I lack the courage to even speak to them of a benevolent God who will take care of them, all I can do is to lend a little listening ear or some money to help them out in a very short run. On the other hand, those who are full time in ministries are not exactly Buffetts or Zuckerbergs but well-off middle class retirees with children taking care of their needs(We’re Asians ) They lead ministries, are healthy and are always kind to others. So James, wouldn’t it mean that the latter group is more blessed spiritually?

It’s difficult to be prayerful and involved in Church when even basic necessities are not met or if one is afflicted with pains and diseases. I understand that a person can be poor even in the midst of riches and rich even in poverty but the reality is that it’s always easier to believe in a God when things are going fine.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut btw!

P.S. Previously I came across some of your posts at CAF and saw your signature, I purchased the mentioned book and have not regretted a cent. That is pure spiritual gold! Thanks for the recommendation, though it wasn’t specifically directed at me.

 

[Joybearer]

Are these people actually being granted favors or are they being given additional temptations?

Consider - the third temptation that the devil used on Jesus…
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them; and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” (Mt 4:8-9)
You say that these people are “impious” - if so - then who are they likely worshiping? Is is God or is is something else? I cannot say for sure…but my point is this…worldly “favors” may or may not be of God.
Just something to consider prayerfully.

Peace
James

Well, I have yet to consider it prayerfully as you’ve suggested, but a protestant friend of mine, already has everything and yet granted even more. It’s like God approving them of believing in their heretical prosperity gospel. I mean, since they are also christians, they have faith in the Lord, how far will they fall.

I’m probably a little naive or even stupid, but it seems to me that the protestants(evangelical christians especially) in general are more blessed in many aspects whereas Catholics seems to be a suffering bunch, God gives the protestant good things and permits trials and tribulations on His very own Catholic kids, can’t ever understand this infinite mind of His.

Anyway, as per your suggestion, I will pray and ask that God may show me a glimpse or enlighten my naivete.

 

[Joybearer]

One other thought on the issue of the efficacy of prayer by a “mortal sinner”…By definition, one who is in a state of unrepentant mortal sin is unlikely to pray. The very act of prayer indicates at least the beginnings of repentance. So for this reason, I don’t really think that a “mortal sinner” is going to be praying a novena - certainly not an unrepentant mortal sinner.

And your command of the language is very good…

Peace
James

Thanks for the compliment!

As I have pointed out to Viki63, there are various Catholics who can be repentant and yet wouldn’t want to seek absolution through confession with different self-justifying excuses and reasons. And since they are not perfectly contrite, wouldn’t it mean that they are in mortal sin? And in mortal sin, they may still require the help of God in certain areas so they would fall on their knees in supplication. And surprising, they got it with a short period of prayer and went straight back to their sinful lifestyles upon receiving certain major blessing.