Egg donation to a fertility clinic

[dgeier0725]

My daughter who has fallen away from the church wants to donate her eggs to a fertility clinic I know it is wrong, but I cant really explain why. Can someone out there help me explain this to my 21 year old daughter?

thanks.

Dave

 

[Rence]

I think your daughter’s heart is in the right place, and her gift would be very generous for someone who can’t have children on their own. But the Catholic Church forbids artificial insemination and in vitro fertilization for a few reasons, and hopefully once she knows what those reasons are, even if she doesn’t agree with them, or even considers them total nonsense, she will honor the teachings and not go though with the procedure.

1. The biggest problem is that usually, mutliple eggs are fertilized to ensure success. They only implant a few into the uterus and either destroy or freeze the rest of the fertilized eggs. For a Catholic, that means many souls being either destroyed or frozen. The Church teaches that freezing embryos denies humans of dignity. Some people make sure they only fertilize what they will implant, but there is no way to ensure that by just donating her eggs. Once she donates them, they will be out of her control and she won’t be able to ensure they are handled more properly.
2. Catholics are forbidden to use AI or IVF because in order for baby making to be licit in the eyes of the Church, the act has to be “unitive”. In other words, the man and woman coming together for the marital embrace, and done so without any outside artificial interference. That’s also one of the reasons why condoms are not allowed by the Church: because it interferes with the “unitive” property. While a non-Catholic doesn’t recognize the authority of the Church and doesn’t accept these teachings, if we donate eggs, we are enabling others to break the rules of the Church, which makes us accountable.
3. even if a husband implanted/fertilized his sperm into his own wife, the untive property is still interfered with due to the ‘unnatural’ property associated with AI and IVF. And again, even if a non-Catholic couple is using AI or IVF, if we donate eggs, we are enabling them to break the rules of the Church, which make us accountable.

If she’s Catholic, she’s not allowed to donate her eggs. If she were my daughter, I would try to redirect her to make a contribution in a way that is allowed by the Church but still meaningful to her. If she’s concerned about helping infertile couples, why not donate time or funds to infertility treatments that are allowed by the Church? They can still be expensive and hinder a lot of applicants. Or teach her about NFP, so that she can teach others? Donate NFP materials? NFP isn’t just used to space out pregnancies, but to actually get pregnant

 

[dgeier0725]

She no longer consider herself catholic so her views are warped. I will try to talk to her. Thanks for the info. It is very helpful

 

[Elizabeth502]

I feel very strongly about this issue, and it way exceeds Church teachings. I don’t think atheists should be donating eggs (or sperm!) in any anonymous situation, because those donations enable single people to become single “parents,” which is already an epidemic in our country, and world. If these egg and sperm banks had been regulated long ago, or were there an avenue to make them subject to legislation (accessible only to heterosexual married couples), then I might feel differently about non-Catholic donations. But since all they are now, i.m.o., is Brave New World laboratories disconnected from donors, and since these donations are abused so often to create fatherless or motherless children (like we don’t have enough of those now ), I would be appealing to any faith-less daughter, or son, to consider societal consequences.

I have single friends and acquaintances who recently sought this route because they wanted to “experience parenting” , and frankly even they admit that the results have been extremely disappointing. They thought that single parenting would be very different than what it turned out to be, and all these people are even financially well off. (Interestingly, I also have single friends who adopted children – some from overseas, some domestically – and they are happier about their situations, possibly because they did not enter parenthood from the standard of a romantic ideal of a physically ideal baby.)

Not having a mate makes a huge difference for a single parent, and a gigantic difference for a child. So again, I would be appealing to any faith-less child to consider the children that result from these anonymous donations.

That’s on top of all the Catholic teaching about it, which is, in a nutshell: we do not separate our reproductive activity from our personhood. To do so is a grave offense against life. Life, and reproducing that life, is to be seen in the context of a particular couple’s love for each other (at best), or (secondarily) the growth within the woman herself, should she find herself pregnant in less than ideal circumstances. Anything that reduces, yet worse – eliminates – the proprietary aspect of that reproduction, is something that is forbidden to Catholics and should be seriously regarded by non-Catholics as well.

 

[converting2024]

I am very sorry to hear about your daughter falling away from the church. Never stop praying for her! I will think of her and you in my prayers.

Since she is unwilling to listen to the dangers her soul faces by helping fertility clinics maybe you can get her to listen by informing her of the physical danger she is going to face. The process of harvesting eggs is invasive surgery; it is not as if they just fall out into a petri dish. This is from a website which condones egg harvesting but speaks about the dangers of it as well:

“The biggest risk of ovulation induction is the possibility of ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome, a medical condition which can range from mild symptoms such as bloating to severe ones like kidney failure, and even death. Some studies estimate the risk of ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome as high as 10 percent, easily the most common side effect of egg donation.”

Also:

“Major injury to the bladder, bowel, uterus, blood vessels or other pelvic structures occurs in approximately 1 in 500 to 1000 surgeries… Surgical risks include acute ovarian trauma, infection, infertility, vaginal bleeding, and lacerations. Additionally, anesthetic complications may occur, although they are rare in healthy women. In one study of 674 women who underwent egg retrieval, 1.5 percent required hospitalization due to complications occurring during or after surgery.”

Here is the website : fertilitynation.com/7-egg-donation-risks-every-donor-should-know-about/

Just let her know that while the clinic is assuring her nothing will happen, they make a profit off of her donating her eggs and will say whatever to get her on the operating table. She is putting her life and her own future fertility at risk by doing this relatively new procedure.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Just let her know that while the clinic is assuring her nothing will happen, they make a profit off of her donating her eggs and will say whatever to get her on the operating table. She is putting her life and her own future fertility at risk by doing this relatively new procedure.

I’ve heard that the fertility clinics sell these eggs for real big money. It seems like a shady business to me, and given also the fact that the techniques of stimulating the ovary and collecting the eggs are dangerous, I would definitely not want anyone I love undergo this procedure, even just from a medical risks standpoint, apart from moral considerations.

Dear OP, also tell your daughter that she will become a mother, if they use her eggs for in vitro fertilization and for producing human embryos. Her eggs will combine with someone else’s sperm, resulting in human beings who will be your daughter’s children. This knowledge may very well come back to haunt your daughter, 10, 20, or 30 years from now. The knowledge that she is now a mother, and she hasn’t got a clue where her children are, or what happened to them. Have the tiny embryos who were her children been implanted into someone else’s uterus, have they survived their ordeal and are they still alive, as 10-year old kids, 20- or 30-year old young men and women, decades later? Or, did some heartless doctor kill her embryo-children in order to harvest stem cells from them? Were they killed because someone looked at them under a microscope, and decided that they were not worthy of life, worthy of implantation into someone’s uterus, perhaps because they didn’t look perfect or healthy enough?

Those tiny embryos are going to be your daughter’s children, no matter what! Does your daughter understand that she is going to become a mother?

There was recently some Papal audience where Pope Benedict 16. talked about the visitation of Holy Mary with Elizabeth. The Gospel writer Luke tells us that the babe St. John the Baptist lept of joy in Elizabeth’s womb, because he was already filled with the Holy Spirit and knew that his Savior was present! And whereas Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant at this time, meaning that St. John the Baptist was a 6-months old fetus, Mary was still in the earliest phase of her pregnancy, and Jesus Christ was a tiny embryo at this point, a few days old only! And St. John the Baptist was filled with joy, and lept of joy in her mother’s womb, because this tiny Jesus Christ, this embryo only a few days old, was present!

If they fertilize your daughter’s eggs, those eggs will combine with the donor’s sperm to form new human beings, and these human beings will be YOUR DAUGHTER’S BABIES, no matter how tiny and feeble-looking at this point! Just as Jesus Christ was fully present in Mary’s womb, and he was already our Savior even though he was just a tiny embryo at that point, these embryos will be fully human, and they will be your daughter’s babies! There’s no question about this, that these will be your daughter’s babies, that’s a hard scientific fact and anyone who learned biology or medical science will understand it!

Please try to talk to your daughter, maybe she will stop to contemplate just how big this is - SHE IS GOING TO BECOME A MOTHER!!!

We on this forum will pray for your daughter and for you.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Dave, I’m so sorry to hear about this situation. As if the other burdens weren’t enough. You’re daughter is her own master. Maybe in time she will come to understand that which she doesn’t understand now. Basic understanding of Catholic teaching requires one to listen with an open heart. You should probably keep your explanation simple. But remind her that you will have grandchildren that you may never know. How sad. Prayer seems to be your only hope. And sometimes God simply allows people to make the most horrible mistakes.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Dave, I’m so sorry to hear about this situation. As if the other burdens weren’t enough. You’re daughter is her own master. Maybe in time she will come to understand that which she doesn’t understand now. Basic understanding of Catholic teaching requires one to listen with an open heart. You should probably keep your explanation simple. But remind her that you will have grandchildren that you may never know. How sad. Prayer seems to be your only hope. And sometimes God simply allows people to make the most horrible mistakes.

I wouldn’t suggest that the OP look upon the situation in such a defeatist, resigned way. Very often young people (especially) are mirroring the unexamined assumptions of the secular world, which their peers tend also to reflect, particularly if those are not faith-observant peers. Most often they have not actually considered alternative mores and arguments. That is why I framed my own rebuttal as I did: it is not present-moment driven; it looks through a long telescope at results for a generation or two.

OP, I would take my reference points, if I were you, from The Green Movement. I would use terms like Family Sustainability; I would appeal to the sense of sacrifice and responsibility of one generation toward an unknown future generation, and many to come. I would also personalize it to your daughter: I would ask her to think about what she might feel like if she didn’t really know her true mother. In that regard, I would remind her about the primordial and universal search for one’s real biological parent for those who knew only one parent: most of those people are perenially restless until they reach that closure point (even if they never continue that relationship), and that she, as an anonymous egg donor, will never be able to be known or reached by any life she is responsible for.

If you feel creative (I would do this myself; you may or may not be comfortable with this approach), I would write an essay myself to show to her, in which I thank my own mother & father for their visible presence throughout my life: how these measuring rods (personalities, identities, character traits of each parent) formed my identity and gave me a “name” that was more than biological, and a concrete memory that has continued to shape me throughout my life so far.

Please do not give up on this effort.

 

[dgeier0725]

I feel very strongly about this issue, and it way exceeds Church teachings. I don’t think atheists should be donating eggs (or sperm!) in any anonymous situation, because those donations enable single people to become single “parents,” which is already an epidemic in our country, and world. If these egg and sperm banks had been regulated long ago, or were there an avenue to make them subject to legislation (accessible only to heterosexual married couples), then I might feel differently about non-Catholic donations. But since all they are now, i.m.o., is Brave New World laboratories disconnected from donors, and since these donations are abused so often to create fatherless or motherless children (like we don’t have enough of those now ), I would be appealing to any faith-less daughter, or son, to consider societal consequences.

I have single friends and acquaintances who recently sought this route because they wanted to “experience parenting” , and frankly even they admit that the results have been extremely disappointing. They thought that single parenting would be very different than what it turned out to be, and all these people are even financially well off. (Interestingly, I also have single friends who adopted children – some from overseas, some domestically – and they are happier about their situations, possibly because they did not enter parenthood from the standard of a romantic ideal of a physically ideal baby.)

Not having a mate makes a huge difference for a single parent, and a gigantic difference for a child. So again, I would be appealing to any faith-less child to consider the children that result from these anonymous donations.

That’s on top of all the Catholic teaching about it, which is, in a nutshell: we do not separate our reproductive activity from our personhood. To do so is a grave offense against life. Life, and reproducing that life, is to be seen in the context of a particular couple’s love for each other (at best), or (secondarily) the growth within the woman herself, should she find herself pregnant in less than ideal circumstances. Anything that reduces, yet worse – eliminates – the proprietary aspect of that reproduction, is something that is forbidden to Catholics and should be seriously regarded by non-Catholics as well.

One of my fears is that these eggs in many cases end up being raised by same-sex parents who can’t have kids for obvious reasons. That’s a tragedy. To take a person and have them raised by a gay couple (men) or Lesbian Couple (Women). In fact I would venture to believe that 50% or more end up this way. Thats sad.
DG

 

[Elizabeth502]

One of my fears is that these eggs in many cases end up being raised by same-sex parents who can’t have kids for obvious reasons. That’s a tragedy. To take a person and have them raised by a gay couple (men) or Lesbian Couple (Women). In fact I would venture to believe that 50% or more end up this way. Thats sad.
DG

Absolutely, Nowadays that is especially, and perhaps increasingly, true. Just another reason to oppose this, and again although the latter is a Catholic reason, it needn’t be: it is a form of human injustice to deny an innocent child the possibility of a mother and a father. At least (although I still despise anonymous donation & procurement) a heterosexual single person, acquiring such technology, will possibly become married to the opposite sex (which does sometimes happen), whereas a couple of the identical genders have specifically excluded that possibility from occurring; rather, they have set themselves up as the two dominant persons, by definition, in that child’s life. They have thereby committed double cruelty: raising a child without a concrete biological memory of at least one of the parents, and denying the child the parent of the opposite gender.

Please believe in yourself that you have, and will have, the words to frame this in a non-specifically religious argument. Please pray about it, daily.

 

[PbloPicasso]

Also, not mentioned. Has the term “Reduction” been discussed. “Reduction” is a nice term for abortion. The way it works typically is that multiple eggs used in the process from my understanding.

 

[dgeier0725]

Absolutely, Nowadays that is especially, and perhaps increasingly, true. Just another reason to oppose this, and again although the latter is a Catholic reason, it needn’t be: it is a form of human injustice to deny an innocent child the possibility of a mother and a father. At least (although I still despise anonymous donation & procurement) a heterosexual single person, acquiring such technology, will possibly become married to the opposite sex (which does sometimes happen), whereas a couple of the identical genders have specifically excluded that possibility from occurring; rather, they have set themselves up as the two dominant persons, by definition, in that child’s life. They have thereby committed double cruelty: raising a child without a concrete biological memory of at least one of the parents, and denying the child the parent of the opposite gender.

Please believe in yourself that you have, and will have, the words to frame this in a non-specifically religious argument. Please pray about it, daily.

Thanks for the words of wisdom.