Eggs, Milk, Scrupulosity

[TwoNames]

I thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)uts. I do need help, I know. I already am reciving medical help (for my ocd) now I need to find a regular confessor. I wish I could write more. But I feel terrible (scrupulosity/ocd) is killing me. I keep on remembering the past sins. Either I worry that I didn’t confess them right, or I remember another sin of my past, that I was aware before my scrupulosity, but didn’t really feel the need to confess - I never felt guilty for the sins that were committed before last confession. I sure did sleep calm back then, as if in the hands of God. I know we must bring up the mortal sins, if we remember them… I don’t know if everything I did in my past was mortal or not. I never have a courage to not confess something.

I really believe that I would choose a terminal illness over scrupulosity if I could, like instantly. Is anyone willing to chat with me on skype (no video/audio chat), only written text.

God bless you all.
please pray for me

 

[porthos11]

I thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)uts. I do need help, I know. I already am reciving medical help (for my ocd) now I need to find a regular confessor. I wish I could write more. But I feel terrible (scrupulosity/ocd) is killing me. I keep on remembering the past sins. Either I worry that I didn’t confess them right, or I remember another sin of my past, that I was aware before my scrupulosity, but didn’t really feel the need to confess - I never felt guilty for the sins that were committed before last confession. I sure did sleep calm back then, as if in the hands of God. I know we must bring up the mortal sins, if we remember them… I don’t know if everything I did in my past was mortal or not. I never have a courage to not confess something.

I really believe that I would choose a terminal illness over scrupulosity if I could, like instantly. Is anyone willing to chat with me on skype (no video/audio chat), only written text.

God bless you all.
please pray for me

The one you must talk to is your confessor and you must obey what he says. He is the first line of help for you. You MUST find your trusted confessor and when you do, BELIEVE and OBEY him in WHATEVER he says. This is the first step towards healing.

Our opinions here, an anonymous Internet forum filled with a wide spectrum of people and mindsets mean absolutely squat. The only advice you should listen to here is that that tells you to trust and obey your confessor,

 

[e_c]

I thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)uts. I do need help, I know. I already am reciving medical help (for my ocd) now I need to find a regular confessor. I wish I could write more. But I feel terrible (scrupulosity/ocd) is killing me. I keep on remembering the past sins. Either I worry that I didn’t confess them right, or I remember another sin of my past, that I was aware before my scrupulosity, but didn’t really feel the need to confess - I never felt guilty for the sins that were committed before last confession. I sure did sleep calm back then, as if in the hands of God. I know we must bring up the mortal sins, if we remember them… I don’t know if everything I did in my past was mortal or not. I never have a courage to not confess something.

I really believe that I would choose a terminal illness over scrupulosity if I could, like instantly. Is anyone willing to chat with me on skype (no video/audio chat), only written text.

God bless you all.
please pray for me

DO NOT confess “past sins” (sins which occurred prior to your last confession) unless:

1. You are confident that some particular act was a mortal sin, and you feel good about that confidence.
2. You are confident that you have not confessed it, and you feel good about that confidence.

OR:

You are making a “general confession,” which is not what we are talking about here.

The spirit of the law is being completely missed by neurotically searching one’s past for possible mortal sins to confess prior to one’s last confession. That law is for the sake of the penitent’s soul (but NOT in terms of absolution, but rather counsel) AND for the sake of appropriately dealing with censures (of which I am confident you have none). IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABSOLVED. If you made a sincere effort to recall sins before your last confession, were truly sorry, and manifested these things to the confessor, ALL YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN.

There are loads of resources on CAF for this issue. Poke around, and if you can secure a priest for regular spiritual direction outside of confession, excellent. If not, when you “feel anxious” about whether or not xyz was a sin, consider what you think a “normal person” would say about it and then realize that because you think a normal person would have this judgment about this act, you have that judgment as well by extension (on a higher level than your emotional aversion and practical confusion)… you think it is “normal.”

 

[porthos11]

DO NOT confess “past sins” (sins which occurred prior to your last confession) unless:

1. You are confident that some particular act was a mortal sin, and you feel good about that confidence.
2. You are confident that you have not confessed it, and you feel good about that confidence.

OR:

You are making a “general confession,” which is not what we are talking about here.

There are loads of resources on CAF for this issue. Poke around, and if you can secure a priest for regular spiritual direction outside of confession, excellent. If not, when you “feel anxious” about whether or not xyz was a sin, consider what you think a “normal person” would say about it and then realize that because you think a normal person would have this judgment about this act, you have that judgment as well by extension (on a higher level than your emotional aversion and practical confusion)… you think it is “normal.”

While your post is sound, generally speaking (i.e. for people with normal consciences), we should refrain from telling the scrupulous what or what not to do. It is not our place, and we can cause even more harm than good. The only advice that stands is to: find a trusted confessor—believe him—obey him. Only HIS word should carry the day, not ours.

 

[Bookcat]

I thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)uts. I do need help, I know. I already am reciving medical help (for my ocd) now I need to find a regular confessor. I wish I could write more. But I feel terrible (scrupulosity/ocd) is killing me. I keep on remembering the past sins. Either I worry that I didn’t confess them right, or I remember another sin of my past, that I was aware before my scrupulosity, but didn’t really feel the need to confess - I never felt guilty for the sins that were committed before last confession. I sure did sleep calm back then, as if in the hands of God. I know we must bring up the mortal sins, if we remember them… I don’t know if everything I did in my past was mortal or not. I never have a courage to not confess something.

I really believe that I would choose a terminal illness over scrupulosity if I could, like instantly. Is anyone willing to chat with me on skype (no video/audio chat), only written text.

God bless you all.
please pray for me

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14292445&postcount=20

Yes that is very key - find a regular confessor.

 

[e_c]

While your post is sound, generally speaking (i.e. for people with normal consciences), we should refrain from telling the scrupulous what or what not to do. It is not our place, and we can cause even more harm than good. The only advice that stands is to: find a trusted confessor—believe him—obey him. Only HIS word should carry the day, not ours.

They are good rules for any scrupulous person, and any person whatsoever. You will also find posted all over CAF a link to “the 10 commandments for the scrupulous”… General counsels can be quite safe, but getting into details can take some more personal assessment. Luckily, the act that occasioned the thread (supposed gluttony) is an easy pass, since it is a venial sin in its genus.

Consider too that it is not always easy to find someone to act as a consistent spiritual director. And what to do in the meantime?

 

[porthos11]

They are good rules for any scrupulous person, and any person whatsoever. You will also find posted all over CAF a link to “the 10 commandments for the scrupulous”… General counsels can be quite safe, but getting into details can take some more personal assessment. Luckily, the act that occasioned the thread (supposed gluttony) is an easy pass, since it is a venial sin in its genus.

Consider too that it is not always easy to find someone to act as a consistent spiritual director. And what to do in the meantime?

Spiritual director is good, but good confessor is sufficient for starters. This is not as difficult to find.

Even “Bless me Father for I have sinned. And by the way, I think I’m scrupulous.” And take it from there.

Yes, the general principles are good, but for any particular scrupulous, the advice might very well be “Do not confess past sins, period.” No “unless”. But then again, for another scrupulous, the “unless” may apply just fine. Hence, the individual guidance from a trusted confessor is necessary, as some scrupulous may not have the capacity to discern the “unless” clause.

 

[Bookcat]

NB: various counsels - principles -rules -historically given to those who struggle with scruples - such as by their confessor - often are not for those with an ordinary or lax conscience.

Those with scruples - a regular confessor is very important (see my post above) who can give the penitent particular rules etc to follow and specific directions.

 

[e_c]

Spiritual director is good, but good confessor is sufficient for starters. This is not as difficult to find.

Even “Bless me Father for I have sinned. And by the way, I think I’m scrupulous.” And take it from there.

Alas, the two have become synonyms to me, which I forget is not how it is for most people.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

While your post is sound, generally speaking (i.e. for people with normal consciences), we should refrain from telling the scrupulous what or what not to do. It is not our place, and we can cause even more harm than good. The only advice that stands is to: find a trusted confessor—believe him—obey him. Only HIS word should carry the day, not ours.

Well yes and no. It is becoming painfully obvious the more I see scrupulocity that it is not a spiritual problem but a mental one. I think it is common to be a manifestation of ocd. They seem to have a lot in common. And the abandonment of logic in the dicernment process indicates to me a mental abnormality. So while, yes, one should have a regular confessor who is adept at handeling this problem, one should also seek professionAl help from the medical industry. And CAF is not the place for either.

Also, I see it is very common for the scrupulous sufferer to really have an immense feeling of pride. Rarely do they view those around them charitably. So instead of “condemning” others they condemn themselves for lesser offenses. In the OP we are talking about eating eggs and eternal damnation. Now how does that play out when they view others living normal lives…?

 

[e_c]

So instead of “condemning” others they condemn themselves for lesser offenses. In the OP we are talking about eating eggs and eternal damnation. Now how does that play out when they view others living normal lives…?

It varies. Ask St. Francis.

 

[e_c]

Well yes and no. It is becoming painfully obvious the more I see scrupulocity that it is not a spiritual problem but a mental one. I think it is common to be a manifestation of ocd. They seem to have a lot in common. And the abandonment of logic in the dicernment process indicates to me a mental abnormality.

This is not quite right either. Yes, the two can be linked (and often are), but they are not the same. Also, scruples manifest for spiritual reasons as well, sometimes it is even just a function of a terrible lack of knowledge of moral principles… You can read all about the spiritual side in the Carmelite masters.

 

[Bookcat]

This is not quite right either. Yes, the two can be linked (and often are), but they are not the same. Also, scruples manifest for spiritual reasons as well, sometimes it is even just a function of a terrible lack of knowledge of moral principles… You can read all about the spiritual side in the Carmelite masters.

And in various works of spiritual theology

 

[Xantippe]

**Also, I see it is very common for the scrupulous sufferer to really have an immense feeling of pride. Rarely do they view those around them charitably. **So instead of “condemning” others they condemn themselves for lesser offenses. In the OP we are talking about eating eggs and eternal damnation. Now how does that play out when they view others living normal lives…?

Jumping off from that, I think that it’s common for the sufferer to get tunnel vision in focusing on the particular “sins” that interest them, rather than what anybody who knew them would consider their actual sins.

It’s like the parable of the speck and the beam, except that they are both in the eye of the same person, who is laboring to get the speck out while ignoring the beam.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This is not quite right either. Yes, the two can be linked (and often are), but they are not the same. Also, scruples manifest for spiritual reasons as well, sometimes it is even just a function of a terrible lack of knowledge of moral principles… You can read all about the spiritual side in the Carmelite masters.

There are zero theological or moral issues in the original post. But a whole lot of other issues. Again, the op should seek professional help outside of CAF.

 

[TwoNames]

Well yes and no. It is becoming painfully obvious the more I see scrupulocity that it is not a spiritual problem but a mental one. I think it is common to be a manifestation of ocd. They seem to have a lot in common. And the abandonment of logic in the dicernment process indicates to me a mental abnormality. So while, yes, one should have a regular confessor who is adept at handeling this problem, one should also seek professionAl help from the medical industry. And CAF is not the place for either.

Also, I see it is very common for the scrupulous sufferer to really have an immense feeling of pride. Rarely do they view those around them charitably. So instead of “condemning” others they condemn themselves for lesser offenses. In the OP we are talking about eating eggs and eternal damnation. Now how does that play out when they view others living normal lives…?

When I view others, I see a trust in God that I don’t have. I see people who are happily living in the grace of God. When I view others living normal lives, I think exactly this → ‘he/she must be a really good person, otherwise they would not have such peace, their past must not include anything so serious that would be a burden for them, as my past is a burden for me’ And no. I’m not making this out. I know that I am pretty crazy. Not long ago, I still had a drawer full of confession notes with a word to word written confessions of my sins on it. I was too afraid to throw them away, because it was a reasurrance for me, that I indeed confessed that sin already, and that it was done in enough details. Eventually I got rid of them, and did regret it a few times. I don’t think many scrupulous persons are prideful. I don’t like to do that. I wish I had the trust as you people have. What you said about us being prideful is not fair!

you said: “Rarely do they view those around them charitably. So instead of “condemning” others they condemn themselves for lesser offenses.” I think you may have told here more about yourself than about us the scrupulous.

 

[TwoNames]

And just to add: I don’t want others to be like me, I want to be more like the others. Sometimes I want to talk with those close to me about my problems, but I am afraid that they will take the same model of thinking from me and they will also get in this mess.

 

[TwoNames]

I also believe that to be on a safe side is a bad choice, it’s better to be on the Jesus’ side. I can’t do it, you can.

 

[Bookcat]

And just to add: I don’t want others to be like me, I want to be more like the others. Sometimes I want to talk with those close to me about my problems, but I am afraid that they will take the same model of thinking from me and they will also get in this mess.

A person very important to talk to for you is a regular confessor - a Priest who can direct you. This is the age old practice in the Church for this difficulty forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14292445&postcount=20

 

[e_c]

Jumping off from that, I think that it’s common for the sufferer to get tunnel vision in focusing on the particular “sins” that interest them, rather than what anybody who knew them would consider their actual sins.

It’s like the parable of the speck and the beam, except that they are both in the eye of the same person, who is laboring to get the speck out while ignoring the beam.

This seems to be an apt characterization of the kind of person you (and HD) seem to be talking about:

youtu.be/-NP-RsRGzVo?t=35

When actually the life of a scroop is much closer to this:

youtu.be/9dgbbtUbgcM?t=26