Egypt: top Muslim cleric says all Christians 'Infidels'.

[colmywaykurtz]

. As far as i know there is an individual mandate in Islam to assist in defensive jihad.

In common with Protestantism, Islam is devoid of a central authoritative magisterium, and thus fatwas can come from a multitude of conflicting directions, with the level of their acceptance being dependent essentially on the popularity and charisma of the author of the fatwa, or the timing or circumstances with which it is issued.

There is thus a philosophical common root from which both Islam and Protestantism sprang.

 

[meedo]

Would democracy in an Islamic country include the freedom for Muslims to convert to another religious faith without fearing for their lives or occupations?

They already do without democracy. In Egypt many do that. You have to understand that there will be huge pressures from family and friends. This gives the ‘‘feeling’’ of threat! I don’t however dismiss that in some cases , there might be people who would give threats. But many in the west get death threats for different reasons as well.

As for occupations, there is a law in Egypt that prohibits discrimination on the basis of faith. Its a new law after the revolution. So things are going in the right direction, but slowly.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

As for occupations, there is a law in Egypt that prohibits discrimination on the basis of faith. Its a new law after the revolution. So things are going in the right direction, but slowly.

I sincerely hope and pray that that is the case.

 

[MontChevalier]

All religions are persecuted in countries where there is no democracy. Muslims were killed in Iraq and Egypt more than Christians were killed. Societies need democracy to develop. The Islamic world is for the most part ruled by secular dictatorships that pressed down its Muslim population eve more than they pressed down Christians.

In the US , a democracy, just untill 50 years ago… it had ‘‘laws’’ against black people. And

the US was then the strongest richest democratic country country in the world ( and still is ) . It took sometime before people got educated and open minded. Black people were killed and attacked… but it didn’t mean that the US as a nation is against Black people. It is just that there is a section of society that hasn’t matured.

Now Egypt has never been a democracy, 40% cant even read or write. Muslims were oppressed by a secular regime that feared them much more than they feared any christian. The natural result is that there will be friction between simple minded red necks on both sides , Muslims and christian. The more educated the people are the less these things happen. And when these things happen…

The thing that i wanna say is that there is no solution other than solving these problems within the state itself. And the solution is not eleminating Islam , the solution is education and culture.

I truly hope that in the search for “education”, the Egyptians, or any Islamic-dominant country, for that matter, don’t try and use that for nuclear weapons, with which to abuse Christians with. I’ve seen plenty of that already.

I find it silly, however, that you would say “culture”, because that appears like a big slap in the face of Egyptians. They already have culture, what, in the pursuits for Democracy, kind of culture do you want for them? If you disregard their current culture, then you obviously want culture to change. And I really discourage that. I believe that the Egyptians should maintain their cultures alive, and without change.

To my knowledge, I believe the Egyptians would do better with a Monarchy. Monarchy creates kinship among brothers and sisters of the nation; while under Democracy, this disappears. Under Monarchy, the Monarchs are trained since birth to handle the affairs of the state; something which takes all of the Democratic politician’s life to achieve(Usually with little results). Under Monarchy, the Monarch doesn’t have to handle issues with what the voters find “popular”, he/she much rather handles troubles with what is most beneficial to the state. I have more reasons as to why Monarchy might do Egypt good, rather than Democracy.

-MontChevalier

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Sermons in mosques are not primarily concerned with Christianity or Judaism. If they mention Christianity , they would criticize it’s dogma, Jesus is God , trinity etc. If there was a reference to Judaism , it would be mainly related to the Israeli occupation. But there is no hate message against my christian neighbor for example.

However i do meet people who are too simple minded. And they live in their own bubble and think that every body else is plotting against them. Such people exist in all cultures and faiths.

Israeli occupation should not be a subject of Mosque talk as Iraq wr should be not in Catholci Churches.

He person here said that he was fed up of shouts every friday against christians (!!!) and jews.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

To my knowledge, I believe the Egyptians would do better with a Monarchy. Monarchy creates kinship among brothers and sisters of the nation; while under Democracy, this disappears. Under Monarchy, the Monarchs are trained since birth to handle the affairs of the state; something which takes all of the Democratic politician’s life to achieve(Usually with little results). Under Monarchy, the Monarch doesn’t have to handle issues with what the voters find “popular”, he/she much rather handles troubles with what is most beneficial to the state. I have more reasons as to why Monarchy might do Egypt good, rather than Democracy.

-MontChevalier

I’ve often thought the same thing about Iran and Afghanistan—subject to certain checks and balances to prevent it degenerating into an absolutist autocracy, of course—such as Afghanistan’s Loya Jirga.

 

[meedo]

I truly hope that in the search for “education”, the Egyptians, or any Islamic-dominant country, for that matter, don’t try and use that for nuclear weapons, with which to abuse Christians with. I’ve seen plenty of that already.

I find it silly, however, that you would say “culture”, because that appears like a big slap in the face of Egyptians. They already have culture, what, in the pursuits for Democracy, kind of culture do you want for them? If you disregard their current culture, then you obviously want culture to change. And I really discourage that. I believe that the Egyptians should maintain their cultures alive, and without change.

To my knowledge, I believe the Egyptians would do better with a Monarchy. Monarchy creates kinship among brothers and sisters of the nation; while under Democracy, this disappears. Under Monarchy, the Monarchs are trained since birth to handle the affairs of the state; something which takes all of the Democratic politician’s life to achieve(Usually with little results). Under Monarchy, the Monarch doesn’t have to handle issues with what the voters find “popular”, he/she much rather handles troubles with what is most beneficial to the state. I have more reasons as to why Monarchy might do Egypt good, rather than Democracy.

-MontChevalier

When i mean culture… i mean cultured, sophisticated, open minded… i don’t mean to change the Egyptian culture . Monarchy is a ****** idea for a country that is tired of the hhead bieng glamoured as elite. We are sick and tired of elites , we want professional employees. We just made a revolution because we are sick of someone who thought himself a monarch.

 

[meedo]

Israeli occupation should not be a subject of Mosque talk as Iraq wr should be not in Catholci Churches.

He person here said that he was fed up of shouts every friday against christians (!!!) and jews.

What should and shouldn’t will be based on the popular sentiment, not our wishes. What is said in the mosque is a reflection to the sentiment and not an instigator. If people are angry at Israel it will be reflected in the mosque, it is not that the mosque will make people angry at Israel!!

The solution is to implement justice and not blame the mosque.

 

[Bezant]

@OP

Well know you haters will hate.

 

[MontChevalier]

When i mean culture… i mean cultured, sophisticated, open minded… i don’t mean to change the Egyptian culture . Monarchy is a ****** idea for a country that is tired of the hhead bieng glamoured as elite. We are sick and tired of elites , we want professional employees. We just made a revolution because we are sick of someone who thought himself a monarch.

You can’t have sophistication and maintain Egyptian culture with Democracy. Just look at Texas. Their culture is constantly attacked because minority groups hate the fact that the Texans are proud of their Confederate heritage. The man who you rebelled against did not think of himself as a Monarch. He saw himself as the Head of State. They’re not the same thing; not to mention the fact that he wasn’t a very generous person.

If you and your countrymen want to maintain your honor, you need to draw a line. Learn from other countries and you’ll see that Democracy will separate your peoples between minority and majority, rather than a country of one body. Respect, honor, dignity, all that goes right out the window, if you pick Democracy. You all have a golden opportunity right now to start with a form of government that doesn’t separate, but unifies, with a leader that represents ALL Egyptian people.

Alas, you all do as you want. These are all caveats that must be said.
But while you do pick Democracy, I certainly hope you’ll come to terms with what you were missing.

I’ll always wish I was born in another time.

-MontChevalier

 

[Wendy_7810]

Ok, according to Islam, Christians and Jews are considered “People of the Book.” Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women but not vice versa. “People of the Book” are considered on a higher respected level than non-believers…unless the particular Christian or Jew used to be Muslim and in that case, according to Islam, they must be killed for turning their backs on Islam. Muslims were taught by Muhammad that the Christians and Jews were originally given the message of Islam but that we supposedly got the message messed up. They do NOT believe that Jesus was the son of God. They do NOT believe that Jesus died on the cross. They believe that he gave his appearance to another man who died for him and Jesus ascended into heaven without dying. They also do not know the Nativity Story. They believe that Mary gave birth to Jesus under a Date Tree and that he was able to speak shortly after he was born. Basically, they do not believe in the same Jesus. They call the man they equate to our Jesus as Isa. They do not believe in the Trinity. They believe that Jesus was just an ordinary man born of the Virgin Mary but that he was NOT God’s son. They believe he was created like Adam. They have the most respect for Abraham and Muhammad. They believe that Muhammad is a descendant of Abraham.

The scary thing is that Islam also teaches different things at different times. Jesus taught us to love one another and to love thy enemy. Muhammad taught them to kill their enemy. Jesus taught us to forgive sins and try to bring people to God…like he did with Mary Magdalen. Muslims don’t even know about her. They have been taught to kill anyone who commits major sin. However, I should also note that they also believe that when a person accepts Islam, all of their previous sins are forgiven and they start a new life. In this case, the sins don’t matter.

I have done a great deal of research over the past two years of being married to a Muslim and I can tell you that their beliefs are very different from our own. I do not agree with them and I will never allow our daughter to be Muslim, but I do think it is important to understand their beliefs. They think they are very similar but they do not truly understand our religion. As far as their religous texts go, they have the Quran and the Hadiths. The Quran is the teachings that Muhammad taught to them. The Hadiths are simply the actions, preferences, and behaviors that others saw or heard from Muhammad. Many of these are fictional and are viewed as “weak.”

 

[KathleenGee]

I think the profound tragedy of Islam is the destruction of all that is sacred held by other faiths.

The Jews did not leave the land the Lord gave them. They were exiled, killed. In Sacred Scriptures it says that some day the Jews will return to their homeland…and it will happen prior to the coming of the Son of Man…

And for Islam to place the mosque over the temple of the Jewish religion, its center…is wrong. The mosque was built next to the rock of Abraham…but the nephew of Mohammed who witnessed this, was enraged…because he saw that rock as so sacred…and that the Uhmayyids had a very bad vice of creating events to use as taking over lands and staking them for their own.

The Jews are so well educated and intelligent, and have contributed profoundly to the world. I wish the militant Muslims would see this. And the other reality that Egypt was once a flourishing Christian civilization that was destroyed.

If you do not respect other people, do not acknowledge the truth of their history, do not dialogue with them and find common ground, attach the fulfillment of your inordinate senses that can never be satisfied…power, pride, greed, lust…the carnal man that is not delivered from the bondage of passion vs the New Man, the Son of Man Jesus Christ Who alone is the remedy for passion, democracy will be impossible.

Islam can denouce, but to criticize it brings punishment, even death. So weak before the Truth.

I see some day Islam being the one who starts the next nuclear war and destroys the world…or this scepter that beheads so many innocent people where Revelation speaks of rivers of blood … I see the aggressor as Islam. There are too many images on the news of violent, blood thirsty Islam men.

 

[Wendy_7810]

If anyone really wants to get into the research aspect in understanding Islam VS. Christianity, there is an extremely good website which was designed by a Christian Ministry as an effort of bringing Muslims to Christianity. From what I have reviewed of the website, many of the text is accurate. It takes a mature and respectful approach to the differences and similarities.

answering-islam.org/

 

[StevieD]

Not really sure about western movies. But you can get a lot of movies from the Holy book publishing house in Cairo center, close to Tahrir square. However i think they would appreciate Arabic movies because may be they don’t understand English.

besides. there is the Internet. Egyptian youths are on the Internet more than they are in the library.

“Not really sure…” Well I am. Islam has its own attitude to Jesus and the movies quoted certainly don’t square with that view. Why not check on the availability of ‘The Passion of the Christ’ in Cairo? You won’t find it, it would convert too many Muslims to the truth.

 

[meedo]

“Not really sure…” Well I am. Islam has its own attitude to Jesus and the movies quoted certainly don’t square with that view. Why not check on the availability of ‘The Passion of the Christ’ in Cairo? You won’t find it, it would convert too many Muslims to the truth.

In the age of Internet… i can assure you that many Muslims saw it. Me included. I felt sorry for the Christian God Jesus. The Film made me tear up …it plays well on the human emotions. But it didn’t make any sense. Because there are humans who took much more torture than he did. Who died more brutal death. besides… how can a sacrifice be a sacrifice when you know you can bring back the sacrificed to life after 3 days ?

 

[meedo]

“Not really sure…” Well I am. Islam has its own attitude to Jesus and the movies quoted certainly don’t square with that view. Why not check on the availability of ‘The Passion of the Christ’ in Cairo? You won’t find it, it would convert too many Muslims to the truth.

The Holybook bookstore is a Christian bookstore. It is not Islam’s attitude to Jesus i am talking about. And most movies that are not allowed for Public display exist already in the Christian Churches. and Muslims can go and buy them there . And sometimes they do.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

What should and shouldn’t will be based on the popular sentiment, not our wishes. What is said in the mosque is a reflection to the sentiment and not an instigator. If people are angry at Israel it will be reflected in the mosque, it is not that the mosque will make people angry at Israel!!

The solution is to implement justice and not blame the mosque.

I thought that a restaurant was to eat, a WC to necessities, a road to walk, a bar to talk about anything, the Parliament to debate politics, the supermarket to buy things, the Mosque to pray.

It seems that you mix in the Mosque the prayer with politics… So it is Mosque and Parliament at the same time…

 

[StevieD]

The Holybook bookstore is a Christian bookstore. It is not Islam’s attitude to Jesus i am talking about. And most movies that are not allowed for Public display exist already in the Christian Churches. and Muslims can go and buy them there . And sometimes they do.

So the are “not allowed for public display” but are allowed to be displayed in Christian churches? If permitted to be displayed only in Christian churches, then as you say they are not on public display. How would you feel if only Christian material could be displayed in the West? You would be on the streets burning things. The Copts are Egyptian citizens and were there before the Arab muslims, they deserve the equal treatment in their own country that you demand in non-muslim countries.

 

[Sufjon]

None of the above is taken in their proper context in regards to this discussion.

What’s the proper context? I saw some responses of what the context was, but the responses didn’t explain all the quotes from your scriptures. At least I don’t think they did, so maybe I missed something.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[rain_bow]

“A video of Egypt’s grand mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa (or Gom’a), which began circulating weeks before the massacre, helps elucidate. While holding that Muslims may coexist with Christians (who, as dhimmis, have rights), Gomaa categorized Christians as kuffar — “infidels” — a word that connotes “enemies,” “evil-doers,” and every bad thing to Muslim ears.” Link. :dts:

While Christians consider Muslims in the plan of salvation (CCC# 841) …

I have found that Christianity is nothing but a Charity council in present days
( my apologies, but this is the reality).

They are desperate to prove Muslims as their brother, while Muslims hate them from their heart.And this ultra charity from Christians will the the cause of the fall of this religion.

Now only Atheist and non religious peoples are the great fighter against the Islamic terrorists. because always sword is greater than pen, if you want to fight against this cult my friend.

And current version of Christianity ( every denomination I think) is too weak to survive against Islamic threat, because except their faith they do not use anything, and love always do not brings love, but sometimes this arrogant thoughts can make a free nation to slave to another nation. In this cruel world, super soft peoples will not survive, for sure.

forget about Jews, Muslims never consider Judaism as the actual threat to them because, Jews are very few in numbers. since the beginning Christianity was the major threat to them. But Christian rulers were fool enough to understand the diplomacy of Muslim Rulers since the Caliphet era, so Christians lost most of lands in middle east.

Islam actually raised under the shade of Christianity. So I blame Christianity and it’s way of charity because of the successful establishment of Islam & now Christianity is supporting it spiritually. But soon they will suffer because of it, i can bet. Christianity is going to face the highest class of threat, from Islam, i can bet.Lets see in what way Christianity can survive against the threat.for sure it will not survive with it’s reputed side, charity,because charity is not always healthy.

When atheists try to do anything against Islamic faith, always Christians become the friends of Muslim to protest them.Christian should take atheists as their true friend, not the Muslims.

anyway Sam, peace and blessing to you.Always keep safe, this is my wishes for you from my heart. I admire your courage that you dare to write against Islam, from Saudi Arabia.

But i can do nothing, except sending my good wishes to you against the green-eyed monster.