Eh question

[bella5110]

Why doesnt bella just go to the ask an apologist forum right now and find out.

I mean she might be able to refuse us humble posters…but maybe the great and mighty Fr. Vincet Serpa crusher of heretics extraordinarre can help us out here

Too late Missa, thread is old…and so is that post…

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Too late Missa, thread is old…and so is that post…

Im trying to find out what your trying to achieve with a reply like that.

If your trying to make me feel that my opinion is insignificant…well its not working.

If thats not what your trying to do…and you have an alternative point to what you posted. Well Im open for correction.

However… Im entitled to reply to any thread on this website.

And wether or not this thread is dead or alive doesnt change the fact that those who are in a state of theological error…should consult higher authorities to get that error straightened out.

Thats the way the Church has taught and corrected its children from time infinite.

 

[AlegreFe]

They do not know what masturbation is. They do not know what sex is. They are 4 and 5 year-old. However, when the time comes (9 year-old and up). We will have those talks with them.

Not to judge how you parent your children but I would think twice about how old each of your children should be when you discuss certain things with them. Right now you say 9 and up, but you really don’t know how things will be going as they grow up. You might change your mind as they are growing up.

I only say this because I have a 12 year old who will soon turn 13 later this month. The time for me came much sooner than 9 years old. I would not want my child to find things out from someone else so I made it my mission to inform my child at certain times. There are times when your children are going to have questions. And as smart and alert as your children are, they might be asking questions sooner than you think.

So I’m saying that right now, it is hard to pin point exactly how old they should be when you tell them certain things. Not to judge so please don’t get the wrong idea. :nope: I’m only trying to help and make your wheels spin for the better. I mean well, I really do. I will pray for you and your children and I am proud to have someone such as yourself in the Catholic Church.

Mommyof02green:

I know that most of this response is not related to the thread. However, I will not just sit by and listen to people make clams about my children fears when they do not know me and certainly do not know my children.

I commend you for your love for your children and how you stand up for them. After all that is our job as parents to defend our children. What is even more commendable is the fact that you will do most anything to get your children to Heaven, that is our main goal in life as parents.

Mommyof02green:

I’m PROUD of my children faith and love for God. Maybe a little to proud of my children… After all pride is one of the DEADLY SINS: Something I’m working on

Yes, Pride is one of the deadly sins. But not this kind of pride. I see it as a pride in your children and to get them to heaven. Just from your posts, I do not see a prideful bone in your body.

You and your children are in my prayers.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Not to judge how you parent your children but I would think twice about how old each of your children should be when you discuss certain things with them. Right now you say 9 and up, but you really don’t know how things will be going as they grow up. You might change your mind as they are growing up.

I only say this because I have a 12 year old who will soon turn 13 later this month. The time for me came much sooner than 9 years old. I would not want my child to find things out from someone else so I made it my mission to inform my child at certain times. There are times when your children are going to have questions. And as smart and alert as your children are, they might be asking questions sooner than you think.

Of course I say 9 because in my mind, I’m thinking they will not ask such questions until then. If they ask sooner, then I will give them an answer sooner. My 4 year old asked, “How do babies get inside a mommy’s tummy?” I told her that when a Mommy and Daddy are married and love each other they get a baby in the mommy’s tummy with the help from God. Now we all know that there is more to the story, but I don’t think my 4 year old needs to know more. Of course if she would of asked more questions I would of given her more answers. However, I gave her that answer and she said “okay”. That is all the info she needed right now. Thank God

I commend you for your love for your children and how you stand up for them. After all that is our job as parents to defend our children. What is even more commendable is the fact that you will do most anything to get your children to Heaven, that is our main goal in life as parents.

Thank-you.

Yes, Pride is one of the deadly sins. But not this kind of pride. I see it as a pride in your children and to get them to heaven. Just from your posts, I do not see a prideful bone in your body.

book Catholicism for dummies page 208:

In Catholicism, sinful pride is the deviation or distortion of the legitimate need of self-affirmation. Liking yourself isn’t sinful. In fact, it’s healthy and necessary, but when the self-perception longer conforms to reality, and you begin to think that you’re more important then you actually are, then sin of pride is rearing its ugly head. The sin of pride gives you a fat head. You think you’re better and more important then anyone else.

Sometimes I get a “fat head” when it comes to my kids. This is because I start thinking how “GREAT” of a Mom I am. I have done this, how I’ve done that. Sometimes I start thinking I’m the BEST MOM that ever lived! I have to put myself in check!!! That’s why said it’s a border-line for me.

I have pride and its good to have pride, however sometimes it does cross the line.
I’m glad to hear that my posting came across on the “right” side of the line.

God Bless,
M2G

 

[AlegreFe]

Of course I say 9 because in my mind, I’m thinking they will not ask such questions until then. If they ask sooner, then I will give them an answer sooner. My 4 year old asked, “How do babies get inside a mommy’s tummy?” I told her that when a Mommy and Daddy are married and love each other they get a baby in the mommy’s tummy with the help from God. Now we all know that there is more to the story, but I don’t think my 4 year old needs to know more. Of course if she would of asked more questions I would of given her more answers. However, I gave her that answer and she said “okay”. That is all the info she needed right now. Thank God

I agree with you a hundred percent. :yup: I guess I should’ve made clear that we can tell our kids certain things but it would have to be at their level.

I just remember my child at the age of 9 and at that age they are “older” than you think.

But yes, at 4 & 5 they don’t need to know certain things.

Sometimes I get a “fat head” when it comes to my kids. This is because I start thinking how “GREAT” of a Mom I am. I have done this, how I’ve done that. Sometimes I start thinking I’m the BEST MOM that ever lived! I have to put myself in check!!! That’s why said it’s a border-line for me.

I see what you’re saying here. I didn’t think of that way from your posts. It doesn’t take much to be able to tell if a poster is prideful in themselves and what they do as compared to having pride in their religion and how they bring up there children to go to heaven.

I have pride and its good to have pride, however sometimes it does cross the line.
I’m glad to hear that my posting came across on the “right” side of the line.

:yup: It sure did come on the “right side.”

 

[AlegreFe]

Why doesnt bella just go to the ask an apologist forum right now and find out.

I mean she might be able to refuse us humble posters…but maybe the great and mighty Fr. Vincet Serpa crusher of heretics extraordinarre can help us out here

No need to do that unless bella wants to make Fr Vincent repeat himself.

Too late Missa, thread is old…and so is that post…

Not too late. Here is the answer from Fr V Serpa himself.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.:
Maturbation takes genital activity out of its proper
context and makes it a selfish act. Yes, masturbation
is a mortal sin. and there’s more where that came from… click on the link to see.

 

[edward_george]

Like I said, I don’t think one burns in Hell for eternity from this…the whole world is going to Hell then. I have a more real life attitude toward things in this world. No one is perfect, so stop acting as if you all lead perfect lives here.
And masturbation is NOT a mortal sin when one is celibate and in private WITHOUT porn etc…I have called three people to back me up. One wants to know if you know that MURDER is a mortal sin…hardly to compare it to masturbation. I am done with this thread…my priest told me it isn’t considered a sin anymore as have two others and one lay person, therefore I believe them. And why make a big deal out of it when it doesn’t even apply to me?
God is my judge, He is all I have to answer to. I do not think He would turn away a 14 year old boy, whom I think is natural during puberty to experiment, If this boy should die, so you all need to examine your own consciences please…

"Truth is not determined by a majority vote."
-Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

 

[AlegreFe]

…
One wants to know if you know that MURDER is a mortal sin…hardly to compare it to masturbation.

• If someone commits a murder and repents and changes his life he can still go to Heaven.
• If someone masturbates and does so repeatedly knowing that he can parish from such acts and yet does not repent, he will end up in Hell.

A murderer in Heaven and a man who masturbated in Hell. …hmmm… something to think about.

 

[Tietjen]

No, my priest said it is no longer a sin and I believe him. He is very Holy. Things are changing.

Nope. Sorry, your priest is incorrect. Some things never change. Also, are there any other things that God called sin which He has now changed His mind on (according to your priest)?

 

[Tietjen]

IT IS NOT A MORTAL SIN. No where in your passage does it say a mortal sin. your assuming it is.

Bella,

Sooo many people have pointed out sooo many Biblical references that prove you and your parish priest are incorrect. In addition, the CCC has been quoted to you also supporting what the Bible and the Church have to say on the issue. In the face of all the evidence, you continue to refuse to even entertain the possibility that you and the priest you spoke to are wrong. I appreciate the fact that you’re still young and obviously stubborn, but with time and maturity I hope that you will someday accept the truth on the matter. What YOU believe or don’t believe on this issue is not relivant since YOU don’t get to decide. It’s God’s world, God’s creations (people), God’s Church; therefore God a lone makes the decision and He has spoken. Argue with Him if you choose, but at least come up with a better argument than, “I don’t believe it’s a mortal sin.” God bless.

 

[bella5110]

If I were a non-Catholic and came on this thread, I’d be thankful where I was. You people are so judgemental. Everyone here has taken things out of context. Maybe you all should think about vocations, because your all perfect.

Show me a page in the Catechist that says exactly that masturbation is a mortal sin. Don’t fill in the lines, I want to know the line exactly.

Remember miss perfect mommy of 2, your kids may be “perfect” now, but at nine, I"d talk to them about the real world, with drugs etc…and I’d watch what I’d say because it will come back to you. Your kid could end up gay…you don’t know, oh! but you talked to them about masturbation though…please…

 

[mercygate]

Show me a page in the Catechist that says exactly that masturbation is a mortal sin. Don’t fill in the lines, I want to know the line exactly.

First: the definition of mortal sin, which requires grave matter.

Second: the places where masturbation is defined as grave matter.

Third: note the conditions which may mitigate the subjective culpability of the person who commits this sin and may reduce the level from mortal to venial. But masturbation, objectively taken in itself without the mitigating factors, is grave matter: i.e., the stuff of which mortal sin consists.

From the *Catechism of the Catholic Church. *Italics original to the text; bold type added.

**1857 **For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is **grave matter **and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

**2352 **By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[fix]

If I were a non-Catholic and came on this thread, I’d be thankful where I was. You people are so judgemental. Everyone here has taken things out of context. Maybe you all should think about vocations, because your all perfect.

Show me a page in the Catechist that says exactly that masturbation is a mortal sin. Don’t fill in the lines, I want to know the line exactly.

Remember miss perfect mommy of 2, your kids may be “perfect” now, but at nine, I"d talk to them about the real world, with drugs etc…and I’d watch what I’d say because it will come back to you. Your kid could end up gay…you don’t know, oh! but you talked to them about masturbation though…please…

2352 By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

It is grave matter. In traditional moral theology the act of masturbation is termed an objective mortal sin. It is a mortal sin on the books so to speak. Whether it is also a *subjective *mortal sin would depend on meeting the other two requirements mentioned previously.

You can write to Rome if you desire and seek clarification or ask your bishop. The advice of your priest is legitimate if he acts within the scope of his authority and does not contradict a higher authority.

The highest authority says it is grave matter.

 

[bella5110]

Sorry, not when your ten, and that was my whole point. Why would two different priests from two different parishes, who do not know each other say that it is not a Mortal sin in the cases I’ve stated? Maybe you all need to look into the year 2006 and see what is happening. CHILDREN ARE NOT GOING TO HELL.

Sometimes I want to join another church.

 

[mercygate]

Sorry, not when your ten, and that was my whole point. Why would two different priests from two different parishes, who do not know each other say that it is not a Mortal sin in the cases I’ve stated? Maybe you all need to look into the year 2006 and see what is happening. CHILDREN ARE NOT GOING TO HELL.

Sometimes I want to join another church.

Then you have run us all around on a wild goose chase since your initial statements had to do with teenagers.

Have you read the statement of the *Catechism *on how “affective immaturity” affects the gravity of the sin?

You did not say earlier that your priests had told you that masturbation was not a mortal sin “in the cases I’ve stated.” You told us that they had said that masturbation is not a mortal sin: no qualifications; no distinction between objective gravity and subjective culpability.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Remember miss perfect mommy of 2, your kids may be “perfect” now,

Here Bella, I never claimed to be perfect and I never claimed that my children were perfect: Here are some quotes of mine from an earlier postings in this thread:

I didn’t write or post** ALL the things that have gone wrong.**
I don’t need to post my sins here on the forum and I don’t need to post **my children’s sins **here on the forum. Those are between God and us.

I have admitted that I sin and I have admitted that my children have sinned. Or this post:

My children know that people make mistakes and sometimes do things they aren’t suppose too. They know that when you do something wrong to God you go to confession.

My children know that people are NOT perfect. They know that I make mistakes, that their daddy make mistakes, that they make mistakes we all make mistakes.

but at nine, I"d talk to them about the real world, with drugs etc…

We have already started the talk about drugs, alcohol etc. My kids know that you have to be 21 before you can drink alcohol and if you drink alcohol before 21 you are breaking the law.

They know that at Mass that’s different, because you aren’t drink “alcohol” you are receiving the blood of Christ. They know that you do not have to receive the blood (wine). They know this because I have NEVER received the blood (wine) and I will never will.

They already know that smoking cigarettes is bad. It “hurts” your lungs and makes it harder to breath. Some of my family members that smoke stop smoking around my kids. This is because every time they light up my kids ask: Why do you want to hurt your lungs?

As for the rest of the drugs out there, my kids know that if they are not sure if it’s “okay” that they need to ask Mommy and Daddy. Meaning if someone is offering them something to eat, drink, that they need to ask us. They also know that needles are something that only a Dr/Nurse uses.

and I’d watch what I’d say because it will come back to you. Your kid could end up gay…you don’t know,

We have already touched on this…that is why my children know that a man is only allowed to marry a women; and a women is only allowed to marry a man. Also, if my children end up with having SSA then I know where to go for help for them and for me: couragerc.net/

oh! but you talked to them about masturbation though…please…

:yup: sex, masturbation, fornication, prostitution, pornography, pedophilia, etc. I will talk to them as needed and when the time comes. Why do you think my children already know that NO ONE is to touch their private parts and what are private parts on a girl and on a boy? Why do you think my children already know that private parts are to stay private, meaning NO ONE can see them? My children also know to come to me, hubby, a teacher, grandma, etc if this happens. They know to ALWAYS tell somebody.

Just this morning my son was yelling for me because his sister was seeing his private parts. Why? Well he didn’t shut the bathroom door. I just looked at him, and said if you don’t want people to see then you got to shut the door. (and shut the door for him). My son just said, “oh I forgot”. I then told my daughter, that she shouldn’t just stand there in the hallway watch some go potty. There are other places and things she can be doing. She just said, “like watching TV”. I said, :yup: like watching T.V., or playing outside, or playing in your room etc.

We talk about it at their age level. My children are encouraged to ask my hubby and I questions and NO topic it taboo!! Sure there may be topics that I don’t want to talk about, but I have too. It’s my responsibility as a parent to properly inform my kids in Faith and Morals. Thank God there are good resource out there for parents to help them have “sex talk” with their children:

familylifecenter.net/cart/product_detail.cfm?ID=688
sexrespect.com/

 

[blessedtoo]

No, my priest said it is no longer a sin and I believe him. He is very Holy. Things are changing.

Your exact post. That is a far cry from what you are now claiming.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed.