El Paso Bishop saddens me

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The Bishop rebuked Fr. Michael Rodriguez for a recent editorial he wrote stating Church teaching on homosexuality:

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=7300

I am saddened because I wish the Bishop would support Fr. Rodriguez. I believe in our confused culture we need priests who teach truth clearly. But I also am respectful to the Bishop even though I disagree with him. I will pray for the Bishop and Fr. Rodriguez.
 
Despite the headline of the article, I don’t think Bishop Ochoa is rebuking Fr. Rodriguez. The bishop specifically refers to individuals - using the plural. Although Fr. Roden-Lucero and Fr. Rodriguez are not mentioned by name, it can reasonably be assumed that Bishop Ochoa is referring to the dispute between these two priests of his diocese. The original issue concerned employee benefits for the family of homosexual persons who work for the city of El Paso. I couldn’t find Fr. Roden-Lucero’s post on the newspaper website, but it seems to have been reproduced here:
veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/a-debate-out-west/
 
georgewithfaith said:
The Bishop rebuked Fr. Michael Rodriguez for a recent editorial he wrote stating Church teaching on homosexuality:

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=7300

I am saddened because I wish the Bishop would support Fr. Rodriguez. I believe in our confused culture we need priests who teach truth clearly. But I also am respectful to the Bishop even though I disagree with him. I will pray for the Bishop and Fr. Rodriguez.
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There was no rebuke in the Bishop’s statement that I could see.
 
The headline is misleading, though so was the Bishop’s comment that the comments of “certain individuals” in reference to the Church’s stance on abortion and homosexual unions not being Church teaching.

It seems that the Bishop felt a need to reassure the public that these positions are not positions of judgment, but that we as Catholics feel they are sinful acts and those who perpetrate these acts need to be received into the Body of Christ with love and compassion.

I’m more disappointed in the writer of the article who called this a rebuke.
 
hey I am from El Paso Its interesting to see stuff posted on here about EP… Cool
 
From the beginning, I think this is what the Bishop wanted to say
The use of harsh words of condemnation is not the approach Christ invites us to have toward one another.
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Its not that the Bishop is against a priest speaking against abortion and homosexual marriages. He is against the use of harsh language that will alienate these people. Its true what he said, the Church aims to save. So if we use language that puts them off and scares them, we not only have condemned their actions (which is right) but we have condemned them as persons (which is wrong). We want to bring them into the Church so they can find the truth and repent and seek God’s mercy and the salvation He promised. Being harsh on them with words would only guarantee that they stay as far away from the Church as possible.
 
“I urge all of the Catholic faithful to treat homosexuals with love, understanding, and respect,” Father Michael Rodriguez had added in his August 2 El Paso Timescolumn. “At the same time, never forget that genuine love demands that we seek, above all, the salvation of souls. Homosexual acts lead to the damnation of souls.”

What is harsh about Fr. Rodriguez’ words? He simply spoke the Truth as taught by the Catholic Church. The Bishop claims that Fr. Rodriguez was giving his opinion. The Bishop is wrong.

With so many people confused about homosexuality, Fr. Rodriguez’ voice of clarity is greatly needed. For the Bishop to state that Fr.'s words are merely opinion, thereby implying that they are flawed, he (intentionally) creates confusion regarding the Church’s teachings.

Where are the priests/Bishops writing articles in support of Fr. Rodriguez? This good priest will not have it easy. I hope he stays strong, stays faithful, and remains vocal about the Truth that is so unpopular today among the world at large, and indeed, among many of our Bishops.
 
cyb said:
“I urge all of the Catholic faithful to treat homosexuals with love, understanding, and respect,” Father Michael Rodriguez had added in his August 2 El Paso Timescolumn. “At the same time, never forget that genuine love demands that we seek, above all, the salvation of souls. Homosexual acts lead to the damnation of souls.”

What is harsh about Fr. Rodriguez’ words? He simply spoke the Truth as taught by the Catholic Church. The Bishop claims that Fr. Rodriguez was giving his opinion. The Bishop is wrong.

With so many people confused about homosexuality, Fr. Rodriguez’ voice of clarity is greatly needed. For the Bishop to state that Fr.'s words are merely opinion, thereby implying that they are flawed, he (intentionally) creates confusion regarding the Church’s teachings.

Where are the priests/Bishops writing articles in support of Fr. Rodriguez? This good priest will not have it easy. I hope he stays strong, stays faithful, and remains vocal about the Truth that is so unpopular today among the world at large, and indeed, among many of our Bishops.
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There is more than one way to skin a cat; there is more than one way to say that homosexual acts are objectively seriously sinful.

If one or more priests under a bishop have gone public on an issue, it is within the authority (and in fact may be a moral requirement) that if a bishop feels that one or more of the priests have approached the issue in a way deemed to do more harm than good, that he reprove them, or in the alternative, respond differently.

There are a lot of people who think that one needs to be directly confrontative on issues. History has shown that other approaches may be far more effective and still have the same moral content. The old phrase is that there are more flies drawn to honey than to vinegar.

Father Rodriguez can be strong, faithful and vocal about the truth, and the Truth, without being confrontative. Finesse is not a moral failure.
 
otjm said:
There are a lot of people who think that one needs to be directly confrontative on issues. History has shown that other approaches may be far more effective and still have the same moral content. The old phrase is that there are more flies drawn to honey than to vinegar.

Father Rodriguez can be strong, faithful and vocal about the truth, and the Truth, without being confrontative. Finesse is not a moral failure.
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Reading the words of Jesus throughout the Gospel He did not use honey to draw flies. Rather Jesus was truthful and direct. Catching flies with honey has been the approach since Vatican II “reforms” and not only have very few flies been caught but most have left and flown away!
 
georgewithfaith said:
Reading the words of Jesus throughout the Gospel He did not use honey to draw flies. Rather Jesus was truthful and direct. Catching flies with honey has been the approach since Vatican II “reforms” and not only have very few flies been caught but most have left and flown away!
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[Mt 10:16](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=40&CHAP=10&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=16) Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

I Cor 9:22 *To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
*

FYI - These statements are pre-Vatican II.
 
It was an error of judgement on the Bishop’s part. Fr Rodriguez spoke clearly and compassionately - there was nothing offensive in his comments. I believe Father also says the Latin Mass.
 
georgewithfaith said:
Reading the words of Jesus throughout the Gospel He did not use honey to draw flies. Rather Jesus was truthful and direct. Catching flies with honey has been the approach since Vatican II “reforms” and not only have very few flies been caught but most have left and flown away!
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Reading the words of Jesus, I find that he was confrontational with those who were in direct opposition to Him (try Pharisees and Sadduces) and was far, far from confrontative with people who were sinners but not in direct confrontation.

Honey does not mean that one does not speak the truth, and your reference I disagree with, as too often it was not “honey” but rather an outright denial that certain things were sinful.

It would appear that the priest was public with a broad statement (that is, he was not addressing specific people, but rather getting into a public widely disseminated commentary) - note: I have not read his commentary in its entirety nor have I followed the controversy closely.

I stand by my statement that there is more than one way to deal with a serious issue such as homosexual activity that complies with Church teaching. Doing so in a confrontative manner - “your are going to hell” approach - is not the only way of framing the issue and being true to the Church teachings.
 
I sound like a “rebuke” to me on the part of the Bishop.

I have tried very hard to get a link to the El Paso Times article of August 2, 2010, by Fr. Michael Rodriquez, but it is nowhere to be found. If anyone can find and post it, that would be most appreciated. There are copies of the article at several sites. It is bad enough if the newspaper just erased this article from their online edition, but I am still left to wonder if the article appeared in the paper edition.

Priests and bishops need to speak out clearly on exactly what Roman Catholic teaching is on homosexual acts, homosexual practice. Some actions are intrinsically evil, and maybe no one can say for sure when a homosexual act is a moral sin, engaging in homosexual acts can be clearly be said to place oneself in the near occassion of mortal sin and is gambling with one’s soul and etermal destiny.

Fr. Rodriquez did speak with clarity and he did speak with charity and compassion, but people need to know exactly what the Roman Catholic teaching on homosexual practice is, and this Bishop just exemplifies what is so so wrong with so many of the Bishops in the USA today.

The fact that there is a debate on this forum, that is, among Roman Catholics, is pretty indicative of the disease of the Church today in the USA.

The Bishop expressed the Protestant and secular stance on homosexual practice in my opinion.

Michael Voris said

realcatholictv.com/scripts/vort-2010-08-24.pdf

This is a transcript of the video Votex of August 24 on realcatholictv.com

"
This case also prompted a rebuke from the local bishop … Armando Ochoa who upbraided
the priest … indirectly … saying his Fr. Rodriguez’s “opinion” didn’t reflect the necessary
elements of being compassionate … tolerant … inclusive … pastoral … dignity … respect.
In short … every buzzword used by the liberal crowd to gloss over the very real charitable
need to say … continuing in mortal sin leads to misery in this life and damnation in the
next … which is what Fr. Rodriguez was saying.
And please … skip the predictable line about … well … we can’t say if they are in a state of
mortal sin. No we can’t … but we can and should say … stop doing what you’re doing
because it is evil and there’s a very good chance you may very well be in a state of mortal
sin.
Why gamble like that with your eternal destiny?
So what we see here in these two cases which both happened in the past week … is the
very real dichotomy that exists in the Church today … renegade liberal priests shooting off
1
their mouth in public. And bishops using the “charity” argument as a skirt to hide behind
when it comes to clearly and unambiguously proclaiming the teachings of the Church.
It’s interesting if you read the El Paso bishop’s statement carefully. While Fr.
Rodriguez’s article which prompted the subtle smack down from the bishop was talking
about the larger issue of homosexuality in general AND why it’s wrong to try and push
so-called same-sex marriage … the bishop ONLY really addressed the issue of same sex
marriage head on.
The rest of his article was about dignity and respect and tolerance and compassion et
cetera.
Not that those qualities aren’t needed. Of course they are. But Fr. Rodriguez had already
said that. His words now …
“I urge all of the Catholic faithful to treat homosexuals with love, understanding, and
respect … At the same time, never forget that genuine love demands that we seek, above
all, the salvation of souls. Homosexual acts lead to the damnation of souls.”
One wonder exactly what in that message needed clarification … was just an “opinion”
and did not “necessarily” reflect Church teaching."
 
Archie said:
I have tried very hard to get a link to the El Paso Times article of August 2, 2010, by Fr. Michael Rodriquez, but it is nowhere to be found. If anyone can find and post it, that would be most appreciated.
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The newspaper did not erase Fr. Rodriguez’ op-ed. Here is a link to it:
elpasotimes.com/ci_15649815

The online article is dated August 1, and you mentioned August 2. Perhaps it was printed in the August 2nd edition of the newspaper?

BTW, we have a lengthy thread in the Catholic News forum about Fr. Rodriquez and his statements:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=481238
 
Thank you for the link. I am assuming this was only in the OpEd part of the online edition of August 1. Still would need verification about it being in the paper edition.

I did do a search on the ElPaso Times site and did finally get this link, which is the same as the one you gave me, but still cannot tell if this was online only article.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_15649815?IADID=Search-www.elpasotimes.com-www.elpasotimes.com

I am not sure what you call someone who no longer practices the Roman Catholic religion but that is what I am. I last went to confession about 35 years ago, but did attend Sunday mass many times since then but not during the last few years. I guess I am an “apostate Catholic” – not sure what the term is.

But I still believe in the teachings of the Roman Catholic church and believe this Church has the most correct theology. Unfortunately, even though I went to Catholic school, I was never really taught the teachings of the Church on many topics and am just beginning to learn them, and now only learning from lay apologists. Seems it is politically incorrect for Bishops and priests to teach the full and true teachings of the Church these days.

That is why I like what Dr. Rodriquez wrote. He made it clear that homosexual acts, not “homosexuality”, is what it is that puts one’s soul in mortal jeopardy. He also wrote “Abortion and homosexual acts are unequivocally intrinsic moral evils.”

The Church teaches that some actions are “intrinsically evil” and I have read and understood elsewhere that homsexual acts, homosexual practice, is considered intrinsically evil by the Church. So logic is telling me if one performs an intrinsically evil action, one has committed a mortal sin, but that may not be correct either.

I am still learning what Roman Catholic teachings are and I do know if the gates of Hell are not to prevail against the church, those teachings must be communicated clearly in the public arena.
 
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