ELCA and Catholic Unity (?)

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The Anglican/Episcopal Church used to make gestures like this, while at the same time moving farther and farther away from Catholicism. It just so happens that the Reformation’s big celebration is at hand and they make this gesture… just by coincidence.

At the same time, the knife is being twisted with a smile.
 
Rau said:
christiannews.net/2016/08/20/evangelical-lutherans-overwhelmingly-vote-to-approve-declaration-of-unity-with-roman-catholics/

But many, many substantive differences…incl. the Real Presence, the nature of Marriage, etc.
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It’s a nice show of unity between Christians to be sure. But it isn’t the prelude to some form of formal union between the ELCA and the Vatican. The ELCA ordains women, performs SSM, has a different understanding of the real presence, etc… etc… And none of that is changing.
 
This is just a goodwill gesture, nothing more. It will go nowhere substantive in the future.
 
Given that the ELCA presiding bishop is a woman and that the Pope was clear that women cannot be priests, I don’t think unity is the word I would use for it. It’s a little like calling the last micrometer of a meter long piece of velcro sticking together and saying that they two pieces are securely joined.
 
Padres1969 said:
It’s a nice show of unity between Christians to be sure. But it isn’t the prelude to some form of formal union between the ELCA and the Vatican. The ELCA ordains women, performs SSM, has a different understanding of the real presence, etc… etc… And none of that is changing.
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Or it’s continually changing… stay tuned for further ‘developments’
 
I share the cynicism as to the likelihood of any change in the extensive set of substantive differences. That was kind of the point of the OP though I was rather to brief to make it clear!
 
Tomdstone said:
The local Roman Catholic priest has said that he is in favor of women priests.
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He should keep his opinions to himself, if he’s presenting himself as a Catholic priest and giving the opinion based on his position.

I’m in favor of women priests, (un)fortunately Jesus and his Apostles settled the question for Catholics and Orthodox. If Anglicans and protestants want to call their ministers “priests” and place women in those positions - it has nothing to do with us and frankly, I favor it, since in those communities, there is no distinction between the roles of a male minister or female minister.

I’m also in favor of female roosters, male cows, female bulls, male hens, and other interesting combinations - (un)fortunately, the English language has settled the matter. However, language does continue to evolve.
 
SyroMalankara said:
He should keep his opinions to himself, if he’s presenting himself as a Catholic priest and giving the opinion based on his position.

I’m in favor of women priests, (un)fortunately Jesus and his Apostles settled the question for Catholics and Orthodox. If Anglicans and protestants want to call their ministers “priests” and place women in those positions - it has nothing to do with us and frankly, I favor it, since in those communities, there is no distinction between the roles of a male minister or female minister.

I’m also in favor of female roosters, male cows, female bulls, male hens, and other interesting combinations - (un)fortunately, the English language has settled the matter. However, language does continue to evolve.
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I know an ELCA Pastor who left the ministry albeit she was ordained as a minister. She told me the good ole boy’s network was alive and well, women got all the more difficult or more bluntly she said crummy assignments with parishes close to closing for financial reasons or small in number so requiring you to manage 2 or more parishes.

That may have been her isolated experience but it does make one wonder. She is now Catholic.
 
Usige said:
Given that the ELCA presiding bishop is a woman and that the Pope was clear that women cannot be priests, I don’t think unity is the word I would use for it. It’s a little like calling the last micrometer of a meter long piece of velcro sticking together and saying that they two pieces are securely joined.
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But there is a reason why ELCA is pushing it. There still are lots of ELCA members who have strong concerns over recent trends, and fears about what aspects of traditional Christian doctrine or morality ELCA will “reinterpret” next. Both its admirers and critics regard the Catholic Church as a bastion of stability.

The heavy media play sought by these kinds of press releases provides assurance to worried moderates in ELCA, to keep them from drifting over to LCMS, evangelical churches, or to the RCC itself. It also provides some psychological reassurance to the liberals themselves in ELCA: see, we aren’t really off base. Look who is standing next to us in that picture! The Catholic Church gains nothing from these photo ops and press releases.

Essentially each year the Catholic Church and ELCA take one step closer together,and, at the same time, ELCA takes 5 steps each year farther away from Catholicism. A realist would say ELCA’s net movement away from Rome is 4 steps farther each year.
 
commenter said:
But there is a reason why ELCA is pushing it. There still are lots of ELCA members who have strong concerns over recent trends, and fears about what aspects of traditional Christian doctrine or morality ELCA will “reinterpret” next. Both its admirers and critics regard the Catholic Church as a bastion of stability.

The heavy media play sought by these kinds of press releases provides assurance to worried moderates in ELCA, to keep them from drifting over to LCMS, evangelical churches, or to the RCC itself. It also provides some psychological reassurance to the liberals themselves in ELCA: see, we aren’t really off base. Look who is standing next to us in that picture! The Catholic Church gains nothing from these photo ops and press releases.

Essentially each year the Catholic Church and ELCA take one step closer together,and, at the same time, ELCA takes 5 steps each year farther away from Catholicism. A realist would say ELCA’s net movement away from Rome is 4 steps farther each year.
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I agree with some of what you stated, but the LCMS and evangelical leaning folks are not going to be assured with any presented unity with Rome. If anything the LCMS crowd wants Rome to repudiate theology - at least they know something about theology - and the evangelicals don’t think Catholicism is Bible-based.
 
commenter said:
But there is a reason why ELCA is pushing it. There still are lots of ELCA members who have strong concerns over recent trends, and fears about what aspects of traditional Christian doctrine or morality ELCA will “reinterpret” next. Both its admirers and critics regard the Catholic Church as a bastion of stability.

The heavy media play sought by these kinds of press releases provides assurance to worried moderates in ELCA, to keep them from drifting over to LCMS, evangelical churches, or to the RCC itself. It also provides some psychological reassurance to the liberals themselves in ELCA: see, we aren’t really off base. Look who is standing next to us in that picture! The Catholic Church gains nothing from these photo ops and press releases.

Essentially each year the Catholic Church and ELCA take one step closer together,and, at the same time, ELCA takes 5 steps each year farther away from Catholicism. A realist would say ELCA’s net movement away from Rome is 4 steps farther each year.
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Well said; you’ve made some excellent points. My friends in the LCMS say many faithful persons are still in the ELCA hoping the pendulum might swing back towards more confessional Lutheran ways. Their hope is diminishing as you say as 4 steps are taken farther away from such.

Mary.
 
The ELCA may possess some form of catholic unity. But Catholic unity? We’re the only ones who have that.

What if I were to say “I have Evangelical zeal.”?
 
Peter_J said:
The ELCA may possess some form of catholic unity. But Catholic unity? We’re the only ones who have that.

What if I were to say “I have Evangelical zeal.”?
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👍 Yes there is a difference, I praise and thank God for Catholic unity and I am happy when we can found some common ground with our non Catholic friends in small c catholic unity.

Mary.
 
commenter said:
But there is a reason why ELCA is pushing it. There still are lots of ELCA members who have strong concerns over recent trends, and fears about what aspects of traditional Christian doctrine or morality ELCA will “reinterpret” next. Both its admirers and critics regard the Catholic Church as a bastion of stability.

The heavy media play sought by these kinds of press releases provides assurance to worried moderates in ELCA, to keep them from drifting over to LCMS, evangelical churches, or to the RCC itself. It also provides some psychological reassurance to the liberals themselves in ELCA: see, we aren’t really off base. Look who is standing next to us in that picture! The Catholic Church gains nothing from these photo ops and press releases.

Essentially each year the Catholic Church and ELCA take one step closer together,and, at the same time, ELCA takes 5 steps each year farther away from Catholicism. A realist would say ELCA’s net movement away from Rome is 4 steps farther each year.
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I tend to agree with the above. If one reads the ELCA’s “Social Statement on Human Sexuality”, one concludes that there is no single position but rather a range of positions are adopted, with individual members and pastors able to choose where they stand (eg. on whether SSM is proper). It appears to want to offers something to everyone - “traditionalists” and “progressives”.
 
SyroMalankara said:
… the LCMS and evangelical leaning folks are not going to be assured with any presented unity with Rome. If anything the LCMS crowd wants Rome to repudiate theology - at least they know something about theology - and the evangelicals don’t think Catholicism is Bible-based.
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I agree the LCMS and evangelicals have always seen a gap between themselves and the RCC over theology, and commitment to the Bible. Still do. But now with mainline Protestantism they are seeing a G…A…A…A…A…P, which is huge and rapidly growing, who knows where or how.

So now when they look back on the familiar, stable, “Catholic gap”, it seems much more bridgeable now.
 
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