Electric Guitars and bass in the Choir? Advice

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LoyalViews said:
I think you should write to your parish priest about ALL of what the choir is doing. Bongo’s? Guitars are bad enough. This is not sacred music. We don’t do the Salsa dance during Mass, or any dance at all
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Because percussion always equals dance.

Well, except it actually doesn’t.
 
It worries me that your pastor would be so ignorant or disobedient of Church documents which clearly state things such as the Church’s preference for type of music, selection of music pieces, and instruments to be used, as well as music and instruments that are forbidden. It makes me wonder what other abuses are present in your parish. The pastor is the true liturgist, and as such, he should be aware of the Church documents. As a priest, he should also be aware of not only liturgical documents but conciliar and papal documents on the faith. These writings comprise the very Tradition to which Catholics adhere to, in an unbroken line from Holy Scripture to the present day. I would suggest that if you are determined to stay in this parish, that you look around you in the pews, and find parishioners who feel the same way as you, and equip yourselves with the relevant Church documents which explain the exact options for music in liturgy, and present them to your pastor. It would also help if you and others like you are available for ministry, or for donations. You could offer to purchase traditional hymnals or start a fund-raiser for organ installation or repairs. Or you could offer your own voice for the choir, and insist that the music be reverent and fitting for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

For examples, you may look to your diocesan cathedral to see how things are done there, under the watchful eye of your bishop. Are things changing for the better? Is your bishop doing all he can to encourage the retention of Latin, the singing of the Ordinary, chanted Propers, and sacred instruments such as the pipe organ? Other parishes might be chosen as pilot projects for this activity as well. How are they received in your diocese? Are they maligned and avoided by Catholics, or have they become a magnet for people who appreciate liturgy properly done?

It is helpful if you judge the climate around you before you act. You will know beforehand what kind of chance you have at succeeding. I hope that you can stay in your parish, as it is vastly preferable to stay and fix things from within, rather than parishioners who leave for greener pastures.
 
Melchior said:
Because percussion always equals dance.

Well, except it actually doesn’t.
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You’re right, but I couldn’t think of another thing percussion is used for off top of my head.

How about…marching?
 
Elizium23 said:
It worries me that your pastor would be so ignorant or disobedient of Church documents which clearly state things such as the Church’s preference for type of music, selection of music pieces, and instruments to be used, as well as music and instruments that are forbidden.
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(shortened by Tomarin)

There are instruments that are forbidden? Which would those be now?
 
Elizium23 said:
It worries me that your pastor would be so ignorant or disobedient of Church documents which clearly state things such as the Church’s preference for type of music, selection of music pieces, and instruments to be used, as well as music and instruments that are forbidden. It makes me wonder what other abuses are present in your parish. The pastor is the true liturgist, and as such, he should be aware of the Church documents. As a priest, he should also be aware of not only liturgical documents but conciliar and papal documents on the faith. These writings comprise the very **Tradition **to which Catholics adhere to, in an unbroken line from Holy Scripture to the present day.
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One issue here; music is not uppercase Tradition. It is not a sin to have other instruments during Mass, one doesn’t need to go to confession for playing a guitar at Mass.

I’ve read documents that said kettle drums were permitted, so at least as a percussionist, I can play my instrument(s) regardless.

Unless; do you think I am sinning?
 
LoyalViews said:
You’re right, but I couldn’t think of another thing percussion is used for off top of my head.

How about…marching?
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Supplying a beat and a rhythm so that those at Mass can follow along with the music, and other musicians can keep a tempo/rhythm/beat?
 
tomarin said:
(shortened by Tomarin)

There are instruments that are forbidden? Which would those be now?
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There’s documents that say instruments that are “secular” in nature, apparently.

There’s also documents that say that it’s up to the local ordinary, so it’s a bit of a wash.
 
Melchior said:
There’s documents that say instruments that are “secular” in nature, apparently.

There’s also documents that say that it’s up to the local ordinary, so it’s a bit of a wash.
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What does “secular” mean in this context? If there’s one instrument that comes to mind as secular it’s the guitar, yet if I had a nickel for every mass I’ve attended that featured guitars prominently, I’d be rich as Rockefeller. So apparently a guitar is okay.

Anyway, I wish all masses were musically traditional, but saying some instruments are secular and others aren’t seems absurd. I need a list of what is or isn’t a secular instrument.
 
LilMissyMary said:
I fail to see why this matters.
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As do I. When I was a Catholic I’d have loved a contemporary Mass and it would have been inspirational to me. I agree with another poster who said one such Mass on a weekend is not the end of the world. From what I know about Catholic teaching, Christ is believed to be present at contemporary Masses too. And if none of the other scheduled Masses work, I attended various Catholic parishes in my lifetime. So 3 mi isn’t really all that far if the OP prefers something else. I’ve driven further than that.
 
F0rg1v3 said:
I just see the new direction as ‘not really Catholic’ and not really conducive to feeling the Holy Spirit.The parish may see it as a way to bring in youth. Should I concede the 5:30 pm Mass to this experiment without voicing myself? Because it may workout.

I don’t know. Advice?🙂
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Nothing you described has anything to do with whether something is “really Catholic” or not. I would say that everyone has a right to give their opinion as feedback to the priest, and should, especially if it has a profound affect on you. The priest can then use this do determine what is prudent. I have know of a couple of other parishes that used evening Masses as LifeTeen Masses to coordinate other youth activities. This may be what is happening.
 
Melchior said:
One issue here; music is not uppercase Tradition. It is not a sin to have other instruments during Mass, one doesn’t need to go to confession for playing a guitar at Mass.

Unless; do you think I am sinning?
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Here’s what I said:
but conciliar and papal documents on the faith. These writings comprise the very Tradition to which Catholics adhere to, in an unbroken line from Holy Scripture to the present day.
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I was referring to documents on the faith. I had switched focus to explain that the priest must be aware of all documents pertaining to his ministry, not just the liturgical ones.

It is not a sin to serve in obedience to your priest and bishop in accordance with their interpretations of Church documents. It is their right to make these interpretations, and there is a spectrum of possible outcomes where this interpretation is involved. You are correct that liturgical law is not doctrine, dogma or Tradition.
 
My husband plays electric guitar and bass. Trust me, there’s plenty of ways to make it sound nice. Get out of your stereotypes please
 
(Puff … pant …)

Am I too late? A post about Electric Guitars and bass? In the Traditional Catholicism forum?

*(Inhales deeply …)
*
 
Some parishes are huge. I attend Mass where there are 1500 people in a large building for each service. Also, there drums. And and amplified bass guitar. And an electric guitar. Violin. Piano. Flute. (Not the daily Mass - just Solemnities).

And, the priest is most anxious to avoid a “musicians on stage” mentality. All songs are such that everyone can easily participate in the singing. Rocky/solo centric songs with a jazzy (difficult to follow) beat do not happen.

Additionally, our priest makes an effort to teach that the Mass is a prayer that we all pray and participate in together. We are there to pray - not to sit and see a show. It is not a performance where the people in the pews are an audience.

The amplified music allows people to hear it that are in the back of the building. Without the electric amplification, they would have less opportunity to participate in the Mass.

While being rocky might get some kids in the door, it doesn’t have staying power. There will always be a better form of entertainment (once they can choose for themselves after leaving home).

Also, have you ever notice how everyone is made differently? Some people actually comprehend subject matter better when sung, or when heard orally, or when seen visually, or so-on-and-so-on. The presentation of the Mass should be done reverently - but not only in the one way our own particular body/mind was designed.
 
It’s comes down to the connotations of the sounds.

Bass, guitar and drums evoke the pop songs they commonly accompany. Add in simple folk hymns and you have something that probably wouldn’t draw paying customers to a concert hall but is seen as good enough the Roman Catholic Mass, its central religious rite.

I’ve read Gegorian Chant is tempo-less to make sure people can’t clap and sway to it.
 
I have a question for the OP. Why did you post this topic here, in the Traditional Catholicism Sub-forum, as opposed to LIturgy and Sacraments? I would assume it is not because this is an issue where the Mass is done according to the older form. Was it just an oversight?
 
You know, in reading all the responses, I have to wonder how the responses would have looked if CAF existed a few hundred years ago. I imagine that there would have been complaints of using what we now call ‘classical’ instruments: pianos, violins, oboes, etc. Most of these instruments were introduced during the 16th-17th century, and I have no doubt that some individuals of that time would be appalled by the use of ‘modern’ instruments in the mass. Indeed, if you went way far back, I’m sure some people would have an issue with that “new” pipe organ instrument being used in mass! 🙂

I realize I’m being a bit silly here, but my point is this: the instrument itself does not matter, only the way it is used in mass. New instruments are invented and old instruments evolve over time, and I see no reason to assume that an instrument is somehow “more holy” just because it is older. I have heard electric and bass guitars used in reverent ways (see youtube.com/watch?v=2xwMaS4uVmM for a good example), while I have heard pipe organ music not suitable for mass (some of Bach’s more “out there” organ fugues come to mind, but I’m sure there are others).

With regard to the OP, you are certainly within your rights to express your concerns to your pastor, and I recommend going this route if this subject is indeed weighing so heavily upon your soul. He may be able to give you some more background on what the intention is, or (if it is indeed “as bad” as some of the folks on CAF make it out to be) perhaps your words will be enough to change the course.

God bless,
Dean
 
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