Electronic church bells: better than nothing?

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Among many of the deficiencies that many modern Catholic church buildings have is the lack of bells. This is another one of our treasured traditions tossed aside in the name of cost, but more often in the name of cold, utilitarian, and modernistic architecture.

However, I’ve been to a few newer parishes that had electronic bells installed. They are played through loud speakers (which are typically hidden since the churches often have no steeples), but the sound is incredibly realistic. Electronic church bells can easily be retrofitted into existing structures, and they are relatively affordable.

Here is one such vendor (give a listen to their recordings):
verdin.com/info/churches.asp

What do you think: are electronic church bells better than nothing? Or are you repulsed by the whole idea because they are fake?
 
I don’t live next door to bells whatever form they take so am not emotional regarding them!
Bells were appropriate to the era where electronic technology was unavailable. They have their charm and their place still. However I have no problem with using with modern technology in modern times…just as the current technology (bells) was used in earlier times.
 
I live about 1 mile from our church and we have electronic bells. Sounds great and I can hear them on my deck in the summer.

Definitely better than nothing. From the sound I doubt I would recognize the difference and we lived in Europe for two years so we heard real bells often.
 
Lepanto said:
Among many of the deficiencies that many modern Catholic church buildings have is the lack of bells. This is another one of our treasured traditions tossed aside in the name of cost, but more often in the name of cold, utilitarian, and modernistic architecture.

However, I’ve been to a few newer parishes that had electronic bells installed. They are played through loud speakers (which are typically hidden since the churches often have no steeples), but the sound is incredibly realistic. Electronic church bells can easily be retrofitted into existing structures, and they are relatively affordable.

Here is one such vendor (give a listen to their recordings):
verdin.com/info/churches.asp

What do you think: are electronic church bells better than nothing? Or are you repulsed by the whole idea because they are fake?
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Bell chimes are not nessecery for their practical purpose anymore, due to the invention of personal watches and other such things. Church Bells were used because in other time periods people could not tell the time accuratly. They simply chimed to identify that it was time for a Mass service.

This is a tradition that I believe should continue because it’s beautiful to hear nice bells on a sunday morning, but in the mordern era there are other more practical ways of having bells chime, such as through electronic means and they are indeed better than nothing.
 
I live a block from my church, and have never regretted its bells (electronic, from the Verdin company referenced in the OP). They ring at:

  • *]5 minute and 1 minute Calls to Worship
    *]Noon and 6pm Angelus (followed by a short hymn)
    *]Funerals
    *]Some (all?) weddings
    *]During the *Gloria *on Holy Thursday and Easter Vigil

    I do not know if the lack of 6am Angelus is a concession to the neighborhood or a city ordinance? We used to have programs of Christmas and patriotic music (about 15 minutes’ worth) – I do not know if they have ceased due to a change in pastor or a change in the system itself (replaced a year or so ago)?

    In any case – I like 'em. 👍

    tee
 
Our church has had electronic chimes from the beginning.

It’s not clear to me if there was ever an intention to install real bells. (We do have a tower.) But the electronic chimes do sound very real.
 
Our church has real bells and it is programmed to chime every hour.
I visit a monastary recently and they play a tape through a big speaker - it sounds very real.
 
I vote better than nothing, and from a Parish council perspective, maybe better in terms of maintenance and repair. Try to find the local bell repairman in your phonebook. 😃
 
If you are willing to spend enough money on amplifiers and speakers the electronic version will meet the real thing in a sonic sense. The same is true with electronic organs versus pipe organs.

Electronic versions are a lot cheaper initially and they are far less expensive to maintain. Do most parishes even have someone who knows how to ring bells in a “Catholic” manner?

With the advent of dirt-cheap computers and wonderful digital recordings, one can build their own systems without paying the high prices demanded by Verdin and others.

It’s still neat to have the “real thing” though.
 
As an aside, I find a lot of people are shocked when they discover how many very old churches, with their wonderful bells ringing out as they always did from the steeples and towers, have actually been electronic for many years. Parishioners and neighbors alike just seem to think someone is still pulling a rope and making them chime!
 
There are two kinds of electric bells here…

one is electric clappers.

The other is crystal chimes.

The Sanctus bells in the Roman mass MUST BE REAL BELLS. it’s required by the GIRM. They can be hand held, or real physical bells in the tower, but they have to be real bells.
 
IrishAm said:
As an aside, I find a lot of people are shocked when they discover how many very old churches, with their wonderful bells ringing out as they always did from the steeples and towers, have actually been electronic for many years. Parishioners and neighbors alike just seem to think someone is still pulling a rope and making them chime!
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The real old systems are not “electronic” using speakers, amplifiers and recordings. They are “electrical” using motors and chains to swing the entire bell or electro-magnetic solenoids to activate a “hammer” to strike the bell. Such systems have been in use since at least the 1930’s.
 
I love to hear the bells from our Cathedral whenever I am in the downtown area. In fact, depending on the time of day, if I listen closely enough, I can hear the bells from the Catholic Church across the river (about a block away from the bridge on the Mexican side), which also has real bells.

When I served at the Cathedral, our rector would have the bells rung prior to the start of Mass and, during the seasons of Christmas and Easter, at the end of Mass. We would also ring them at the end of weddings and for funerals.

Prior to Midnight Mass, rather than ringing the usual call to Mass, my rector would ring the tone used for funerals. He told me that he did this because Midnight Mass signaled the “death of Death” with the Nativity of Our Lord.

Incidentally, the Cathedral uses a device similar to what was described in the previous post. Having had to go up to the choir loft for something on a Saturday afternoon, I decided to venture up a little further to see the bells for myself. It was a big mistake because it was rather close to the time they were supposed to ring. Yes, our bells were real. 😊 I was too embarassed to tell anyone, lest I would risk unceasing teasing from my rector. :eek:
 
I admit that as a musician and bell lover, I have a bias. The best electronic systems, which use either CD or digitally sampled recordings of actual bells, still don’t come close to the sound of the real thing. Most of them aren’t loud enough, and when they try to play carillon tunes, the songs are played as if on a piano, with no proper carillon technique. I have heard them all: Verdin, Schulmerich, Chime Master, Maas-Rowe, Quasimodo, Van Bergen, etc. and none of them would fool me.

The main issue is that they are fake. Artificial. I realize that real bells are expensive, although used ones can be purchased at a much lower cost and they can last for centuries, but that’s what savings accounts and capital campaigns are for. It is not merely a tradition to uphold or an outdated time signal, but the bell represents the voice of God. It is a blessed article, a sacramental, and is the loudest evangelist in your neighborhood. I suppose that electronic bells are better than nothing, but it should only be a temporary situation.

By electronic bells, I mean those which broadcast sounds through speakers. Real cast bells that are rung by electric motors or solenoid strikers are still real bells. The majority of bells in Europe have been rung electrically for decades.
 
The bells of the Cathedral in the city where I live ring loudly and often. There is a carillon of 12 bells, each named for an Apostle. For several decades they were rung electronically but now are operated in the most part, by computer. A peal is rung ten minutes before every Mass, whether a daily Mass or on Sundays. They ring the Angelus at noon and 6pm with three sets of three peals to represent the verse, the response and the Hail Mary. During the week, the bells ring the time of day–the quarter hour, the half hour and the hour from 9am until 9pm. The Anglican Cathedral is situated almost directly across from the Catholic Cathedral and also rings the time of day. The odd thing about this is that the bells from the Anglican Cathedral seem to be the tiniest millisecond behind our bells so the effect is basically like an echo. Also they don’t have the same loudness or depth of sound so the result can be disconcerting to those who hear it for the first time.
The Cathedral bells also ring for ordinations,weddings and the Easter Vigil. For these special occasions, one to six bells are used in the peal. For funerals, only a single bell tolls mournfully. The silver [sacring] bell is named for St. Paul and is the only one not rung automatically. It is always rung at the Consecaration and can be heard for blocks. It’s nice to be in the area and hear it ring!
Sometimes the bells are rung manually. For instance, when Pope John Paul II died the single bell tolled for half an hour calling hundreds of people into the Cathedral to pray for his soul. Again, as soon as Pope Benedict XVI was elected, the bells pealed joyfully for more than 15 minutes bringing hundreds of people into the Cathedral where most of them stayed while the Bishop and the Cathedral priests offered a Te Deum.
The other churches in this city that do have bells ring them as well, although not with the schedule of the Cathedral but always for the Angelus and shortly before Mass. I do not know of any that use the sound of fake bells.
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
I admit that as a musician and bell lover, I have a bias. The best electronic systems, which use either CD or digitally sampled recordings of actual bells, still don’t come close to the sound of the real thing. Most of them aren’t loud enough, and when they try to play carillon tunes, the songs are played as if on a piano, with no proper carillon technique. I have heard them all: Verdin, Schulmerich, Chime Master, Maas-Rowe, Quasimodo, Van Bergen, etc. and none of them would fool me.
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Sorry, but you’re wrong about the best non-bells… that would be the crystal chime systems, where a physical crystal is induced to vibrate and then the resulting vibration picked up by an induction mic and amplified. Like traditional bells, they do get cros-harmonics, and they have incredible tone. Many don’t realize they are not real bells; most trained musicians can, but only due to the lack of bass harmonics.

The disks used with these are not recordings; they are simply annotations for various songs.
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
I admit that as a musician and bell lover, I have a bias. The best electronic systems, which use either CD or digitally sampled recordings of actual bells, still don’t come close to the sound of the real thing…
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The best digital systems actually do. However, be they bells or an organ they take a remarkable large amount of clean amplification and huge/expensive transducers (speakers.)

My parish has a bell ringing tradition that is more than 200 years old. About 5 years ago we replaced our old bells, well over $100,000. That’s not all that much in the bell world. The local Episcopalian parish responded with a highly upgraded pre-recorded system. It’s remarkable. It can be heard for at least 3 miles in the morning. The only reason you can tell their system is fake is because their patterns are absolutely perfect.
 
Frosty said:
The bells of the Cathedral in the city where I live ring loudly and often. There is a carillon of 12 bells, each named for an Apostle. For several decades they were rung electronically but now are operated in the most part, by computer. A peal is rung ten minutes before every Mass, whether a daily Mass or on Sundays. They ring the Angelus at noon and 6pm with three sets of three peals to represent the verse, the response and the Hail Mary. During the week, the bells ring the time of day–the quarter hour, the half hour and the hour from 9am until 9pm. The Anglican Cathedral is situated almost directly across from the Catholic Cathedral and also rings the time of day. The odd thing about this is that the bells from the Anglican Cathedral seem to be the tiniest millisecond behind our bells so the effect is basically like an echo. Also they don’t have the same loudness or depth of sound so the result can be disconcerting to those who hear it for the first time.
The Cathedral bells also ring for ordinations,weddings and the Easter Vigil. For these special occasions, one to six bells are used in the peal. For funerals, only a single bell tolls mournfully. The silver [sacring] bell is named for St. Paul and is the only one not rung automatically. It is always rung at the Consecaration and can be heard for blocks. It’s nice to be in the area and hear it ring!
Sometimes the bells are rung manually. For instance, when Pope John Paul II died the single bell tolled for half an hour calling hundreds of people into the Cathedral to pray for his soul. Again, as soon as Pope Benedict XVI was elected, the bells pealed joyfully for more than 15 minutes bringing hundreds of people into the Cathedral where most of them stayed while the Bishop and the Cathedral priests offered a Te Deum.
The other churches in this city that do have bells ring them as well, although not with the schedule of the Cathedral but always for the Angelus and shortly before Mass. I do not know of any that use the sound of fake bells.
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I’m fairly sure that 12 bells would be a chime, not a carillon.
 
Aramis said:
Sorry, but you’re wrong about the best non-bells… that would be the crystal chime systems, where a physical crystal is induced to vibrate and then the resulting vibration picked up by an induction mic and amplified. Like traditional bells, they do get cros-harmonics, and they have incredible tone. Many don’t realize they are not real bells; most trained musicians can, but only due to the lack of bass harmonics.

The disks used with these are not recordings; they are simply annotations for various songs.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as a “crystal chime.” If there is, please give me the name of the company. From what you are describing, it sounds like the earliest electronic bell technology from the 1940’s, where small bronze rods are struck and amplified. There were no crystals, just little rods like those in a grandfather clock. Perhaps “Crystal Chimes” was a trade-name. Maas-Rowe still makes carillons like this, and they are about the furthest thing from the sound of a real bell. I know because my current parish has one and I have disassembled it many times to try and improve the sound quality. The only crystals used in these systems are in the clock circuitry to keep accurate time.

Some modern systems use CD’s of recorded bell sounds, which you could remove and play in your car stereo. Others may use CD’s containing only digital control signals, but most that don’t use CD’s use digitally recorded bell samples that are stored on electronic memory cards or drives. Many of these systems also put out sounds that real carillons don’t produce, particularly the cheesy “harp bells” that several manufacturers use. This is used as a background for their one-finger melodies. Even worse are the non-sounding aluminum “bell shells” that resemble real bells and can be hung in towers while the speakers remain hidden.

Unlike real bells, one lightning strike and any of these fake bell devices would be fried.
 
TotalResolve said:
I’m fairly sure that 12 bells would be a chime, not a carillon.
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I don’t know the technical terms for numbers of bells and so forth. The sacristan of the Cathedral who is in charge of the bells calls them a carillon, so I just go along with what he says. Does it really matter? My post was in response to the OP who doesn’t seem to think that churches in today’s world bother to use their bells anymore.
 
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