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jpglisson
Guest
Why didn’t Eli reprimand his sons
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Fauken
Guest
Could you provide a specific verse?
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Dan_Defender
Guest
His sons, Hophni and Phinehas, were massive sinners. Probably Eli’s love for them made him be too soft to them so he failed to discipline them like he should have. A sin of omission on Eli’s part.
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BartholomewB
Guest
Eli did reprimand his sons. You’ll find it in vv. 22-25. Some translations, such as the ESV, even put in a heading to that effect. Unfortunately, however, his sons heeded him not.
Eli Rebukes His Sons
Now Eli was very old, and he kept hearing all that his sons were doing to all Israel, and how they lay with the women who were serving at the entrance to the tent of meeting. And he said to them, “Why do you do such things? For I hear of your evil dealings from all these people. No, my sons; it is no good report that I hear the people of the LORD spreading abroad. If someone sins against a man, God will mediate for him, but if someone sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?” But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for it was the will of the LORD to put them to death.
https://biblehub.com/esv/1_samuel/2.htm
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jpglisson
Guest
First Samual chapter 3
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Gorgias
Guest
Yes… and no.
His sons were bad news – we learn that they were using their positions as priests for personal benefit. They were sexually harassing women who were (essentially) working for them, and they were stealing parts of the sacrifices that didn’t belong to them. (Recall that, in the Mosaic covenant, priests don’t have inherited lands – instead, they supported themselves and their families from the offerings brought to the temple. So, Eli and his sons were taking better portions from the offerings than they were entitled to. Today, we’d call that “embezzlement.”)
Eli himself was a ‘judge’. Back in those days, before there was a king, the elders would sit at the city gates, and people would bring their disputes before them. Eli was one of those elders. Folks actually came to him with their grievances against his sons! So… the part about harassing women? Eli went to his sons and told them to cut it out. The part about stealing from the offerings? Eli never reprimanded them on that (perhaps because he, himself, was also doing it.)
One last note to the story: back then, they didn’t know about heaven and hell. So, everyone went to Sheol. And, “eternal life” was thought of as having descendants who remembered you and kept your memory alive. If God is telling Eli that he’s stripping away his family’s role as priests, then He’s punishing Eli on earth. If He tells Eli that “no member of your household shall ever grow old”, then He’s telling Eli that he and his sons will not have eternal life.
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BartholomewB
Guest
No, that’s not what it says in this passage in Samuel. It doesn’t say that he only rebuked them for the sexual harassment, and it doesn’t say that he failed to rebuke them for the misappropriation of the sacrifices. What is says is this, in the ESV translation I quoted earlier, with emphasis added:
Now Eli was very old, and he kept hearing all that his sons were doing to all Israel, …
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Gorgias
Guest
Context is everything.
1Samuel2:
1Samuel3:
Your problem, it seems, isn’t that you think I’m not telling the truth; it’s that you think that God wasn’t telling Samuel the truth. You can take that one up with Him.
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BartholomewB
Guest
You accuse me unjustly, @gorgias! I have never doubted that God is telling the truth, and not only that, I fully believe that the author of 1 Samuel is telling the truth, as well.
Here is the verse in Hebrew. You can see that the word kol (כל), meaning “all”, appears twice, as correctly translated in the ESV. Now Eli was very old, and he kept hearing all (kol, כל ) that his sons were doing to all (lekol, לכל ) Israel.
1 Samuel 2:22 Interlinear: And Eli is very old, and hath heard all that his sons do to all Israel, and how that they lie with the women who are assembling at the opening of the tent of meeting,
It is only after that statement with the two “alls” that we come to the conjunction “and” followed by the information about the sexual abuse.
Here is the verse in Hebrew. You can see that the word kol (כל), meaning “all”, appears twice, as correctly translated in the ESV. Now Eli was very old, and he kept hearing all (kol, כל ) that his sons were doing to all (lekol, לכל ) Israel.
1 Samuel 2:22 Interlinear: And Eli is very old, and hath heard all that his sons do to all Israel, and how that they lie with the women who are assembling at the opening of the tent of meeting,
It is only after that statement with the two “alls” that we come to the conjunction “and” followed by the information about the sexual abuse.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
But then, how do you explain that Eli was punished by God along with his sons?
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BartholomewB
Guest
Dunno, Dan. My guess is that Eli’s sons were punished with death, while Eli himself was punished by not having a posterity, which of course was the inevitable outcome of the death of both his sons, assuming that he had only the two. Is there any other answer to your question?
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jpglisson
Guest
My original question (probably not stated clearly), was why didn’t Eli stop his sons. Especially after Samuels dream/visit. Eli could have had his sons thrown out of the city or even killed?
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Gorgias
Guest
Just poking the bear a little… The thing is, though, that in 1 Sam 3, God Himself tells Samuel that Eli didn’t reprimand his sons for their abuse of the sacrificial system. So… how can you suggest he did?
The text suggests that Eli, too, sought illicit gain in the way he acted with the sacrificial offerings.
At that point, God’s already identified that it’s a done deal – punishment is coming, and it won’t be thwarted. So, at that point… why attempt to stop his sons? They (and he) are already doomed.
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Mintaka
Guest
No, it’s a fair question. On many occasions, God sent a prophet to make a conditional declaration. He might or might not have explicitly said that it was conditional, but it seems to have been. If people smarten up, repent wholeheartedly, pray for mercy, and make reparations, God usually softens their punishment or takes it away.
Eli rebuked his sons, but he didn’t punish his sons or deprive them of the priesthood. He also didn’t look into their activities himself, until the day when he could not ignore what he had been hearing. Yes, he was very old, but he was also experienced and should have known better.
His sons had every chance to repent, but they didn’t.
Eli rebuked his sons, but he didn’t punish his sons or deprive them of the priesthood. He also didn’t look into their activities himself, until the day when he could not ignore what he had been hearing. Yes, he was very old, but he was also experienced and should have known better.
His sons had every chance to repent, but they didn’t.
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Gorgias
Guest
The thing is… in this case, God explicitly says that in no way is this conditional:
So, this isn’t one of those cases in which God would later say “I changed my mind.” He’s explicitly saying, “sorry… you can’t phone a friend; this is my final answer.”
(Note, too, that God doesn’t really change his mind. Rather, He often gives folks opportunities to change theirs. Here, though, He’s saying that this opportunity no longer exists for Eli and his family.)
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