Eligible for priesthood?

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If you have children and are not Anglican-Catholic or Eastern Catholic, then you (as far as I know) will not be ordained (or likely enter seminary) until you are no longer financially responsible for them, usually when they are 18.
Eastern Catholic priests are already inside the Catholic Church. This does not apply to them. They simply would be moving from one Catholic Church to another, let’s say from Chaldean Catholic to Roman Catholic, but still Catholic. If a priest is an Orthodox priest and becomes a Catholic, all he needs to do is to be incardinated into a diocese. He does not need to be ordained. The Orthodox priests are validly and licitly ordained. They are not suspended, because we have not authority to suspend them. Their sacraments are valid. The Catholic Church would have an obligation to find a place for him. You cannot leave a priest in the air.

An Anglican would follow the regulations for Anglican Clergy. Having children is not an impediment for them, because it’s not part of the decree. It may certainly pose some challenges for these priests.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thanks again to all that have replied. I figured ahead of time that any children would have to be at least 18 before the candidate would be considered.
 
I have a friend who was ordained under these circumstances. What was interesting was the Bishop determined his sons age based on the date of conception thus allowing his ordination even though his son was only a little over 17
That sounds like a lawyer’s trick (or a Jesuit’s)!
 
=hizstory;7935899]I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I figured someone might know the answer. Can a man who has had a marriage anulled be ordained a priest?
Conditionally YES!

An Annument does not VOID a marriage; rather says that NO VALID MARRIAGE EVEN EXISTED.

If Children are involved and there wellbeing is an issue; it would not happen.

God Bless,
Pat
 
Why is having dependent children an impediment to the priesthood if one is otherwise a Catholic in good standing? What are the spiritual reasons for this? It strikes me as a bit like the Church’s way of getting out of paying health insurance for Father’s kids rather than an actual thing that would prevent a man from being a good priest.
 
Why is having dependent children an impediment to the priesthood if one is otherwise a Catholic in good standing? What are the spiritual reasons for this? It strikes me as a bit like the Church’s way of getting out of paying health insurance for Father’s kids rather than an actual thing that would prevent a man from being a good priest.
The Church believe hat a parents primary responsibility is raising their children Only when that is done can they take on the responsibility of being a apriwdt
 
Why is having dependent children an impediment to the priesthood if one is otherwise a Catholic in good standing? What are the spiritual reasons for this? It strikes me as a bit like the Church’s way of getting out of paying health insurance for Father’s kids rather than an actual thing that would prevent a man from being a good priest.
The first duty of every parent is to teach, guide, protect and nurture his children. A man or woman who has a child or children is prohibitted from engaging in any ministry that interferes with the rights of the child. The father must not only be present, but must also have the resources necessary to provide for the child. The Church cannot afford to pay priests a competative salary with benefits to provide for him and children. This child has rights and those rights must be protected. Those rights overrule the rights of the faithful to have a priest. That’s how seriously we take fatherhood.

If the man is married, the situation is assessed. If the mother and father can work it out so as to provide for the child without sacrificing the child, the Church will ordain a married man who is a father if he’s an Eastern Catholic or in the Latin Church if he’s a converting clergyman. Even then, the rights of children are carefully examined. Even for the ordination to the diaconate the rights of children must be protected or there is no ordination.

I think that we’re thinking this from the point of view of the faithful. We have to be careful. This point of view can be very utilitarian. It is very easy to fall into the pit of concerning ourselves with what the faithful need and forgetting the essence of things. Fatherhood has an essence all of its own. A father must be a parent first and all other things second. I know, because I’m a father. I was unable to enter religious life until I was able to prove that my children did not need me. I had to present financial documents, letters and they had to meet with the bishop.

We should be happy that the Church holds fatherhood in such high regard.

Fraternally,

Br. Jr, OSF 🙂
 
The Church cannot afford to pay priests a competative salary with benefits to provide for him and children. This child has rights and those rights must be protected. Those rights overrule the rights of the faithful to have a priest. That’s how seriously we take fatherhood.
This is basically what I just said. However, it is an arguement that I don’t think holds a lot of water. According to an answer to the question of priestly pay @ Catholic Digest, priestly pay can very “anywhere from 18,000 per year to more than 31,000.” This doesn’t sound like much, but priests get a car allowance, aren’t paying any health care premiums, and don’t have to pay rent. Also, according to this article, in San Jose, CA, an admittedly expensive place to live, “For priests, the “basic stipend” this year is $32,616, with a grant of $600 for a “study week,” another grant of $500 for the annual spiritual retreat, and a contribution of $11,718 to the retirement fund.” This is all in addition to a car allowance, as well as food and lodging being taken care of. I know many dads with advanced degrees who would consider that arrangement VASTLY superior to what they’re being paid now. I know dads who work for the church who are making in the low 30s, besides the fact that they have to pay 20% of their health care costs.

This “needs of the child” argument doesn’t hold up when, all “perks and extras” considered, most diocese are paying their priests MUCH better than they are paying their lay leaders. If the Church is so concerned about the welfare of Church employees, why do parish school principals make less than most public school classroom teachers? Why are lay leaders woefully under-compensated as compared to others of similar educational levels in the secular world?
 
=RCconvert7;8039248]Why is having dependent children an impediment to the priesthood if one is otherwise a Catholic in good standing? What are the spiritual reasons for this? It strikes me as a bit like the Church’s way of getting out of paying health insurance for Father’s kids rather than an actual thing that would prevent a man from being a good priest.
May I ask please? Are you married?

Not being a smat alec here but MARRIAGE itself is FULLTIME employment.

This is a “church practice” NOT a doctrine, so it could change. It likely will NOT because History and Tradition have proven the way’s of the CC to be Prudent and effective.

KEEP uppermost in your minds that this a requirement BUT ONE THAT is FREELY accepted by candidates to the Catholic Priesthood. They KNOW long before taking vows what the conditions are.👍

God Bless you,
Pat
 
May I ask please? Are you married?

Not being a smat alec here but MARRIAGE itself is FULLTIME employment.

This is a “church practice” NOT a doctrine, so it could change. It likely will NOT because History and Tradition have proven the way’s of the CC to be Prudent and effective.

KEEP uppermost in your minds that this a requirement BUT ONE THAT is FREELY accepted by candidates to the Catholic Priesthood. They KNOW long before taking vows what the conditions are.👍

God Bless you,
Pat
Yes, I am married. We’re not talking about someone who is married, however. We’re talking about a widower or someone whose marriage was annulled and has dependent children.

On the subject of marriage, however, I disagree with you on the idea that it is somehow a “full-time job”. It is not a “job.” It is a partnership. I have a very happy marriage while at the same time working a 12+ hour a day job so that my wife can stay home with our kids. I have a VERY hard time believing that my Pastor spends as much time working as I spend on my job, my kids, and my wife combined, because that’s what’s being implied, isn’t it? That the priesthood is so time-consuming that a married person or a widower with kids could NEVER possibly do it without neglecting his family. I think that the Eastern Churches and Protestant traditions have shown us that it is very possible.
 
=RCconvert7;8042587]Yes, I am married. We’re not talking about someone who is married, however. We’re talking about a widower or someone whose marriage was annulled and has dependent children.
On the subject of marriage, however, I disagree with you on the idea that it is somehow a “full-time job”. It is not a “job.” It is a partnership. I have a very happy marriage while at the same time working a 12+ hour a day job so that my wife can stay home with our kids. I have a VERY hard time believing that my Pastor spends as much time working as I spend on my job, my kids, and my wife combined, because that’s what’s being implied, isn’t it? That the priesthood is so time-consuming that a married person or a widower with kids could NEVER possibly do it without neglecting his family. I think that the Eastern Churches and Protestant traditions have shown us that it is very possible.
The Key here is in the words “dependent children.”

Were such a person Ordained the Church would assume the cost of raising and educating them. Not fair to the parishiioners. Even if such a person could cover the financial burden, he would still have devided loyalities.

It could happen, but quite unlikely.

God Bless,
Pat
 
This is basically what I just said. However, it is an arguement that I don’t think holds a lot of water. According to an answer to the question of priestly pay @ Catholic Digest, priestly pay can very “anywhere from 18,000 per year to more than 31,000.” This doesn’t sound like much, but priests get a car allowance, aren’t paying any health care premiums, and don’t have to pay rent. Also, according to this article, in San Jose, CA, an admittedly expensive place to live, “For priests, the “basic stipend” this year is $32,616, with a grant of $600 for a “study week,” another grant of $500 for the annual spiritual retreat, and a contribution of $11,718 to the retirement fund.” This is all in addition to a car allowance, as well as food and lodging being taken care of. I know many dads with advanced degrees who would consider that arrangement VASTLY superior to what they’re being paid now. I know dads who work for the church who are making in the low 30s, besides the fact that they have to pay 20% of their health care costs.

This “needs of the child” argument doesn’t hold up when, all “perks and extras” considered, most diocese are paying their priests MUCH better than they are paying their lay leaders. If the Church is so concerned about the welfare of Church employees, why do parish school principals make less than most public school classroom teachers? Why are lay leaders woefully under-compensated as compared to others of similar educational levels in the secular world?
There are several problems here.

First, not every diocese can afford the salaries and benefits that you’ve outlined here. I know for a fact that in my diocese priests do not get a car allowance or mileage. They don’t get car insurance. They pay for 1/2 of the medical and life insurance. Their salary is about $24K plus housing and a food budget. Anything beyond that, they have to provide for themselves.

Second, you cannot put a priest and a child in a rectory. That’s how this conversation started. The question is whether a man who has a child can be ordained. A rectory is rooming house, not a home. Have you ever lived in one? It’s not a religious house where there is a semblance of family where people eat, pray, play, rest and do many thing together. In a rectory, people come and go on their own schedule. They don’t even have to speak to each other or like each other. They just have to make the parish run.

Third, the rights of a child command that dad provides for him and that dad is available. Therefore, he should live in the same home. In the Oriental Churches this works, because the priest and his family live together. However, their parishes are not major institutions as are the Latin parishes. Father does not have to be out every ngiht What we’re doing with the converts who are married is assigning them to posts where their wives can care for their family and where Father makes enough money to bring home the bacon. Even there, they sometimes live on a shoe-string budget and mom has to get a job.

Fourth, the layperson who works for a diocese does not have to do so. He or she takes the job because he wants it. The priest has no choice but to work for the diocese. If the salary is low, the lay person is free to find another job.

Fifth, if the dad wants to become a priest in a religious community, that complicates things even further. The vow of chastity requires that he break all ties with his natural family. They remain his biological family, but they are no longer his responsibility, not even his children. If he needs to care for his children or elderly parents, he must ask for a dispensation from religious life. Religious life and family life are incompatible, because of the vow of chastity. The vow of chastity binds him to his brothers. They become his sole concern in life. He cares for them, provides for them, shares his life with them, and they do the same in return. That’s why your children must be autonomous.

When I entered, as I said, I had to provide all kinds of documents that my children no longer needed a father. I even had to provide a financial statement for my children to prove that they had money and resources… I only see them once every five years. We stay in touch via email and telephone. If they’re in town they visit. But I can only visit them every five years. I can’t run to them when they’re sick. I can’t go to their wedding, graduation from graduate school, or other such events. I have community obligations. Unless the superior deems that its appropriate and the timing good, I don’t go.

You cannot deny children these rights. Adult children don’t have these rights, but minor children do. They should have daddy there for their graduation, basketball game or school play. Daddy should be available for parent teacher conferences and he should do volunteer work at their school. He should entertain his children and their friends. He should socialize with the other parents to make sure that his children are not hanging around with the wrong crowd. Father can’t drop everything and do these things. The life of the priest is not that free.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I only see them once every five years. We stay in touch via email and telephone. If they’re in town they visit. But I can only visit them every five years. I can’t run to them when they’re sick. I can’t go to their wedding, graduation from graduate school, or other such events. I have community obligations. Unless the superior deems that its appropriate and the timing good, I don’t go.
Hello, Br. J.R. I have heard that you say that before about only rarely being able to visit your family. Is that a rule in most communities, or is it just in Franciscan or cloistered orders?
 
Were such a person Ordained the Church would assume the cost of raising and educating them. Not fair to the parishiioners. Even if such a person could cover the financial burden, he would still have devided loyalities.
Again, I say that these issues are satisfactorily handled in the Eastern Churches and in Protestant congregations. If a man has a family and is an entrepreneur, with a fledgling new company, does HE have “divided loyalties” which are unfair to his customers or his employees?

What I want to know is how being a Parish Priest is so fundamentally different from being an Eastern Parish Priest or a Protestant Pastor (in terms of time, now faculties, of course), or even from having a very demanding and time-consuming secular job. Something often brought up is house calls or hospital calls. How is this different from being a OBGYN who has to be on-call for his/her expectant mothers or for a business owner who has to have his cell on at all times in case something important comes up with his company?
 
There are several problems here.)
This is a very good post, brother. Thank you. I was, of course, thinking in terms of a Parish Priest rather than a religious one. Of course a religious priest living in a monastic community couldn’t have children living with him. So many Parish Priests today, however, do live in the Rectory alone. But I see your point.

Do all priests in a diocese make the same amount of money, or are they paid more or less based on size of their parish?
 
On a light hearted note, we had a wonderful priest that visited our parish a few years back. He was married with five children. His wife passed away. Over the years, the kids graduated, started careers. He found his calling and entered the seminary.

In conversation after mass, we had a fun time. I was kidding him by asking if his kids called him Father Father. He just laughed and said simply Father was sufficient. His grandkids had some linguistic gymnastics to overcome though.
 
Hello, Br. J.R. I have heard that you say that before about only rarely being able to visit your family. Is that a rule in most communities, or is it just in Franciscan or cloistered orders?
Every religious community has its rules. Some communities never visit their relatives. Others visit once a year. That’s the most frequent that I know. I do know a OMI whose mother lived near the religious house where he was stationed and she became very ill. She had only two children he and a sister. The superior allowed him to do errands for her and help her out so that the sister was not overwhelmed. But he lived a few blocks away. That’s an unusual situation. Most religious visit their relatives once a year for about a week.
This is a very good post, brother. Thank you. I was, of course, thinking in terms of a Parish Priest rather than a religious one. Of course a religious priest living in a monastic community couldn’t have children living with him. So many Parish Priests today, however, do live in the Rectory alone. But I see your point.

Do all priests in a diocese make the same amount of money, or are they paid more or less based on size of their parish?
There are salary brackets for pastors, associates, those who serve in the chancery, those who teach, hospital chaplains, etc.

If you’re a religious, it makes no difference whether you’re a priest, sister or brother, the salary is always less and there are no benefits. A parish may be staffed by five religious, but they are alllowed to collect a salary for only two. Obviously, they do not receive medical and life insurance or any car allowance. The community pays all of the bills for those people out of that salary.

In the USA, diocesan priests are self-employed. Therefore, they pay their FICA in full. The diocese does not pay it. They pay taxes (State and Fed), they may have to pay part of their 401K. They usually pay part of their medical insurance. Their car is their property, so they maintain it and insure it. Most dioceses do not reimburse for mileage unless you’re a layman. If you work for an organization that is not diocesan, that’s a whole other arrangement.

Let’s say that you teach at a university. Then the diocesan policies do not apply. The university has its own system. Some pay clergy and religious the same as they would any other professor.

Also, remember that in the northern hemisphere, we have more financial resources than the sourthern hemisphere. Which is another good reason for not ordaining a man with children. Those guys work for food. that’s about as much as they get. They get enough pesos to buy clothes. They have no retirement, no medical, not life insurance and housing is inadequate for raising a child.

Someone asked what’s the difference between a Latin Catholic parish priest and an Eastern Catholic parish priest. Sacramentally, there is none. However, the two parish paradigms are very different. Like Protestants, Eastern Catholics never got used to the idea of a parish that operates seven days a week from 7:00 am to 11:00 pm. Because their clergy is married and with children. In addition, Eastern Catholics in Europe, Asia and North Africa have lived under the yoke of oppression. Catholic parishes were not very active as have been parishes in Europe and the Americas. They are very quiet and have very little activity. Father is much more available to be husband and daddy.

If you want to compare the Latin Catholic priest to the parent who is an OB/GYN you can do so. However, there is little admirable if a parent is so dedicated to his career that he does not see his kids grow up. I’ve seen many of these kids of OB/GYNs.

I grew up in a home with a mother who was a pediatrician and a dad who was a diplomat. My father traveled a great deal. My mother compensated by limiting her practice to about 10 - 15 patients. This gave her a lot of time with us.

When I was widowed, I had two young children. I had to hire a housekeeper and a nanny. They ran my house and cared for my children so that I could work. I would not wish that on any father. If a man tells me that he’s a single dad and wants to be a priest, my response is to wait until he child is independent. Even if it were allowed, every child should grow up with his parent, not a nanny.

I taught at the university. There was a two-year period when I was also the dean. I would spend very irregular hours at the university. I missed those two years with my kids. They will never be replaced. I could not help my son with his homework, because I had to run to an evening class or a meeting. I didn’t do little league coaching, because I had no time. Sometimes I’d get home and they were in bed. Nanny had tucked them in and gotten them ready for the next day.

After two-years of that, I felt horribly. I resigned and took up a job as a high school principal At least I could get out of school at a reasonable hour and there were no evening classes. Bu there are two years in the life of my children about which I know very little.

I was blessed. They never got into trouble. The did well in school. One is a doctor and the other is an artist. They own their own homes. My son owned his own hom, with no mortgate by age 21. Note every parent is as lucky.

A single father has one primary duty in his life, to be a daddy. What we the faithful feel and need is not his problem. He has no obligation to us. A priest is not a commodity that we try to rack up as many as we can, regardless of the sacrifices. If you want a priest that badly, if you’re male, enter the seminary. If you’re female, have lots of babies so that the chances of at least one becoming a priest will increase exponentially. That’s hwo we got priests in the past. 🤷

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Every religious community has its rules. Some communities never visit their relatives. Others visit once a year. That’s the most frequent that I know. I do know a OMI whose mother lived near the religious house where he was stationed and she became very ill. She had only two children he and a sister. The superior allowed him to do errands for her and help her out so that the sister was not overwhelmed. But he lived a few blocks away. That’s an unusual situation. Most religious visit their relatives once a year for about a week.
Thank you for explaining this. I asked that question partly because of my impression that some religious (especially mission priests like the Fathers of Mercy) travel a lot.
 
Again, thank you for such a great explanation. I don’t think I’ve heard this argument expressed as well before.
 
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