Elijah and Moses recognized - but how?

  • Thread starter Thread starter there_and_back
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

there_and_back

Guest
Another rosary-inspired question: when Jesus is seen by the apostles talking with Elijah and Moses - how did Peter and Co. know who these men were?

Seriously, I presume that the knowledge was imparted by God, but there are so many instances when people are not recognized (at least for a time) - but in this short scene, the people are recognized as a matter of course. Perhaps there is a symbolic significance to this?
 
This is an interesting question, but I think I might be able to come up with something. In Luke, while the Transfiguration is taking place, Luke states that Jesus, Elijah and Moses were conversing(I’m paraphrasing), but does not say about what, maybe they had revealed their identities during the conversation.
Well this is my best guess, I hope it helps.
 
there_and_back said:
Another rosary-inspired question: when Jesus is seen by the apostles talking with Elijah and Moses - how did Peter and Co. know who these men were?

Seriously, I presume that the knowledge was imparted by God, but there are so many instances when people are not recognized (at least for a time) - but in this short scene, the people are recognized as a matter of course. Perhaps there is a symbolic significance to this?
Click to expand...
I am reading this from my study bible…It says here, " Jesus Departs(24,50-53)The ending of the Gospel reflects the departure that Jesus discussed with Moses and Elijah(9-31)as well as showing the Son of Man in glory at the right hand of God(22,69)Jesus’ resurrection appearances are understood to be from His place of glory with God the Father(24,26)
The parable and symbolism have introduced ways in which Jesus will be present to the church,Through the Spirit promised by the Father( verse 49) and in the breaking of the bread (verse 35). And the church’s mission will be to take Jesus’ teaching throughout the world."
I hope this helped you understand things a little more clearly. Reading guides in Catholic study bibles do an excellent job of explaining the Bible and it’s contents therein.
God Bless
Mary173
 
there_and_back said:
Another rosary-inspired question: when Jesus is seen by the apostles talking with Elijah and Moses - how did Peter and Co. know who these men were?

Seriously, I presume that the knowledge was imparted by God, but there are so many instances when people are not recognized (at least for a time) - but in this short scene, the people are recognized as a matter of course. Perhaps there is a symbolic significance to this?
Click to expand...
Possibly they appeared with something that would reveal their identity - as we recognize a statue of Peter because he is holding keys or Joseph because he holds a carpenter’s square or a hammer. Tablets would be obvious for Moses, not sure what might represent Elijah. . . .
 
dmccormack said:
This is an interesting question, but I think I might be able to come up with something. In Luke, while the Transfiguration is taking place, Luke states that Jesus, Elijah and Moses were conversing(I’m paraphrasing), but does not say about what, maybe they had revealed their identities during the conversation.
Well this is my best guess, I hope it helps.
Click to expand...
We were just doing the Transfiguration in our Gospel of Matthew Study this Wednesday. It does mention in Luke what they were conversing about. Luke 9:30-31
And behold, two men were conversing with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of the exodus that he was going to accomplish in Jerusalem.
Click to expand...
A couple of things to note…why Moses and Elijah? They were the Law and the Prophets. Jesus was coming to fulfill the Law and Prophecies of the Old Covenant and instill the New Covenant.

The exodus brings to mind the exodus from the bondage of slavery in Egypt. Jesus was fulfilling a new exodus: the freedom from the bondage of sin.

I just wanted to share that because it is something that we were learning in our study.

As for the original question, “How did they know?” My guess would be the Holy Spirit.

God Bless!

Jessica
 
JAGCath28 said:
We were just doing the Transfiguration in our Gospel of Matthew Study this Wednesday. It does mention in Luke what they were conversing about. Luke 9:30-31

A couple of things to note…why Moses and Elijah? They were the Law and the Prophets. Jesus was coming to fulfill the Law and Prophecies of the Old Covenant and instill the New Covenant.

The exodus brings to mind the exodus from the bondage of slavery in Egypt. Jesus was fulfilling a new exodus: the freedom from the bondage of sin.

I just wanted to share that because it is something that we were learning in our study.

As for the original question, “How did they know?” My guess would be the Holy Spirit.

God Bless!

Jessica
Click to expand...
 
twinc said:
more than likely - this of course prompts the question as to how we will know and recognize each other in the hereafter. Should we not just accept that they did instead of analysing and dissecting.It seems the only one they did nor recognize was Jesus for a voice had to remind them “this is my beloved son” etc - Btw here,as elsewhere we have a very good example why as the Church advises the literal and obvious should be accepted rather than flights of fantasy and many and various way out ,weird and wacky interpretations and conclusions - twinc
Click to expand...
well, we will recognize those whom we know on earth because our bodies will be transformed but they will still be our bodies. And we may well recognize others whom we did not know in life because our minds will no longer be limited in the ways that they are now. But since Peter, James and John had not known Moses and Elijah in life and were at the time of the Transfiguration still very much in their finite minds, I think it is an interesting, not particularly wacky, question to wonder how they recognized the two.
 
NHInsider said:
well, we will recognize those whom we know on earth because our bodies will be transformed but they will still be our bodies. And we may well recognize others whom we did not know in life because our minds will no longer be limited in the ways that they are now. But since Peter, James and John had not known Moses and Elijah in life and were at the time of the Transfiguration still very much in their finite minds, I think it is an interesting, not particularly wacky, question to wonder how they recognized the two.
Click to expand...
lets just put it like this and as simply as Jesus put it to Peter “flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in Heaven”.So it was a revelation if we just substitute Holy Spoirit for Father etc - twinc
 
twinc said:
lets just put it like this and as simply as Jesus put it to Peter “flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in Heaven”.So it was a revelation if we just substitute Holy Spirit for Father etc - twinc
Click to expand...
This is the general answer, of course. It was revealed to the disciples because God let them see clearly that Moses and Elijah were the ones standing there. Since it was a revelation from God, name tags were not necessary 😛

What IS intriguing about this question is not how they knew who these two men were, but WHY God chose to reveal their identities. In other times, like when Jesus appears resurrected, his true identity was, for a time, hidden. In this instance of the Transfiguration, it was crucial that the disciples see Moses and Elijah, not just an illuminated Christ speaking with two men. Why? Well, Moses was the receiver of the Old Covenant via the 10 Commandments, and Elijah was a great prophet who stressed the importance of the One God. In speaking to these two, Christ gives the disciples the clear idea that He is the fulfillment of the law, and is indeed the One God that Elijah, and all the prophets, have worshiped and preached.

Now, this may seem obvious in 2010, that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and all the prophets. But, put yourself in the place of Peter, James or John. They followed this great Prophet and Teacher, but they couldn’t quite understand who He was. Everyone around had a different opinion, and their hearts and minds had not yet been opened by the Holy Spirit to understand all this. When the crucifixion came and their Master was dead, and later when the fullness of Truth was revealed, what a beautiful, miraculous proof and reflection they had that Jesus Christ was truly God! And what a wonderful feast, rosary mystery, meditation and much more we were left with, 2,000 years later!

In Christ and Our Blessed Mother,
Frank
 
Moses represents the Law, Elijah represents the Prophets. Both are fulfilled in Jesus.

Moses and Elijah both saw God and lived.

Elijah was assumed into Heaven, and many Jews at the time of Jesus believed that Moses was as well - so they were understood to be bodily in Heaven (along with Enoch).

Lots going on in this brief passage.
 
Another interesting thought is that God is not limited by time, or dimension.

Imagine a glimpse - provided by the Grace of God, would be to us mere mortals like an entire life history played out in an instant - certainly you would be able to identify those presented with knowledge of their life history (even if they weren’t wearing name-tags:p).

-S
 
Let me answer your question with a question:
Jesus said that on the Last Day we will see Him coming on a cloud. If we see someone on a cloud, how will we recognise that it’s Jesus and not somebody else (maybe through human ingenuity or through some trick of the Devil)? We don’t have a photo of Him. We don’t know for certain if He is tall or short, swarthy or fair, thin or stout, the colour of His eyes or the colour or texture of His hair.

Most likely as NHInsider says about Moses and Elijah, there will be something about Him which we recognise, perhaps through our familiarity with artistic conventions of portraying Him.
 
Petergee said:
Let me answer your question with a question:
Jesus said that on the Last Day we will see Him coming on a cloud. If we see someone on a cloud, how will we recognise that it’s Jesus and not somebody else (maybe through human ingenuity or through some trick of the Devil)? We don’t have a photo of Him. We don’t know for certain if He is tall or short, swarthy or fair, thin or stout, the colour of His eyes or the colour or texture of His hair.

Most likely as NHInsider says about Moses and Elijah, there will be something about Him which we recognise, perhaps through our familiarity with artistic conventions of portraying Him.
Click to expand...
He will come in power and glory and everyone will know “for every knee shall bow and every tongue confesss Jesus” - twinc
 
Many scenes in the Gospel accounts do not give you a word for word account of everything that was said and done, it would be humanly impossible to write down every word that took place in every scene. By the context it appears that somewhere in the conversation, maybe in their greetings to each other, they revealed their identities.
 
They were able to know who they were because of the way they were able to see them. They were elevated to a state of being that made Elijah and Moses visible. In the light of the Transfiguration the eyes of the soul are opened. The peculiar characteristics of intellectual vision is experienced. Knowledge and likeness are functions of unity. To see isn’t just (name removed by moderator)utted data from eyes to brain but a knowing as a union of the likeness of soul. The light of the Transfiguration provided that knowing to the Apostles.:twocents:
 
Cominghome89 said:
This is the general answer, of course. It was revealed to the disciples because God let them see clearly that Moses and Elijah were the ones standing there. Since it was a revelation from God, name tags were not necessary 😛

What IS intriguing about this question is not how they knew who these two men were, but WHY God chose to reveal their identities. In other times, like when Jesus appears resurrected, his true identity was, for a time, hidden. In this instance of the Transfiguration, it was crucial that the disciples see Moses and Elijah, not just an illuminated Christ speaking with two men. Why? Well, Moses was the receiver of the Old Covenant via the 10 Commandments, and Elijah was a great prophet who stressed the importance of the One God. In speaking to these two, Christ gives the disciples the clear idea that He is the fulfillment of the law, and is indeed the One God that Elijah, and all the prophets, have worshiped and preached.

Now, this may seem obvious in 2010, that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and all the prophets. But, put yourself in the place of Peter, James or John. They followed this great Prophet and Teacher, but they couldn’t quite understand who He was. Everyone around had a different opinion, and their hearts and minds had not yet been opened by the Holy Spirit to understand all this. When the crucifixion came and their Master was dead, and later when the fullness of Truth was revealed, what a beautiful, miraculous proof and reflection they had that Jesus Christ was truly God! And what a wonderful feast, rosary mystery, meditation and much more we were left with, 2,000 years later!

In Christ and Our Blessed Mother,
Frank
Click to expand...
I agree with this statement.
 
NHInsider said:
Moses represents the Law, Elijah represents the Prophets. Both are fulfilled in Jesus.

Moses and Elijah both saw God and lived.

Elijah was assumed into Heaven, and many Jews at the time of Jesus believed that Moses was as well - so they were understood to be bodily in Heaven (along with Enoch).

Lots going on in this brief passage.
Click to expand...
I was taught this also. And I agree with this also.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top