Elijah

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aball1035

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I read somewhere that he was suppossed to come again. He ascended into Heaven so he never died, and is suppossed to return to Earth. Is this true?
 
Yes, but first let’s back up, because Henoch suffers the same fate.

For Henoch:

Genesis Chapter 5

21 And Henoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Mathusala.

22 And Henoch walked with God: and lived after he begot Mathusala, three hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.

23 And all the days of Henoch were three hundred sixty-five years

24 And he walked with God, and was seen no more: because God took him.

For Elijah:

Online references state II Kings 2:11 but it is IV Kings 2:11 in the Douay-Rheims i am using.

IV Kings Chapter 2

11 And as they went on, walking and talking together, behold a fiery chariot, and fiery horses parted them both asunder: and Elias went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Eliseus saw him, and cried: My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the driver thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own garments, and rent them in two pieces.

These two, Elias (Elijah) and Henoch (Enoch), are generally understood to be the ones to which Revelation Chapter 11 pertains.

Revelation Chapter 11

1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and it was said to me: Arise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar and them that adore therein.

2 But the court, which is without the temple, cast out, and measure it not: because it is given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city they shall tread under foot two and forty months:

3 And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks, that stand before the Lord of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire shall come out of their mouths, and shall devour their enemies. And if any man will hurt them, in this manner must he be slain.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and they have power over waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast, that ascendeth out of the abyss, shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified.

9 And they of the tribes, and peoples, and tongues, and nations, shall see their bodies for three days and a half: and they shall not suffer their bodies to be laid in sepulchres.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry: and shall send gifts one to another, because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt upon the earth.

11 And after three days and a half, the spirit of life from God entered into them. And they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon them that saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven, saying to them: Come up hither. And they went up to heaven in a cloud: and their enemies saw them.

13 And at that hour there was made a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell: and there were slain in the earthquake names of men seven thousand: and the rest were cast into a fear, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past: and behold the third woe will come quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded the trumpet: and there were great voices in heaven, saying: The kingdom of this world is become our Lord’s and his Christ’s, and he shall reign for ever and ever. Amen.

16 And the four and twenty ancients, who sit on their seats in the sight of God, fell on their faces and adored God, saying:

17 We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, who art, and who wast, and who art to come: because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and thou hast reigned.

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest render reward to thy servants the prophets and the saints, and to them that fear thy name, little and great, and shouldest destroy them who have corrupted the earth.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.
 
aball1035 said:
I read somewhere that he was suppossed to come again. He ascended into Heaven so he never died, and is suppossed to return to Earth. Is this true?
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You are wrong. He did not ascend. He was assumed into Heaven. Only Jesus ascended into Heaven.
Why can’t people see the important difference between the two?
 
aball1035 said:
I read somewhere that he was suppossed to come again. He ascended into Heaven so he never died, and is suppossed to return to Earth. Is this true?
Click to expand...
Over 900 years after God took up Elijah “into heaven by a whirlwind” (2 Kings 2:1), Jesus Christ declared: “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man” (John 3:13).

Did Jesus contradict what the Scriptures say? Did Elijah really ascend to the heaven of God’s throne even though Jesus said he did not? If the Bible is indeed the Word of God, there could be no contradiction.

Jesus’ statement is clear and plain enough: No one has ascended up to heaven, excepting Himself, the Son of man. Now, 2 Kings did say that Elijah was taken up “into heaven.” But which heaven? Notice that there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible, not just one. If Jesus said no man had ever ascended to the heaven where He came from, then the heaven into which Elijah was taken must be a different heaven.

The third heaven is the heaven of God’s throne (2 Cor. 12:2). The second heaven represents the expanse of the vast universe – the space where we find the sun, moon, stars and planets – the “heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon, and the stars, which thou hast ordained” (Psalm 8:3). Gen. 1:15-17 refers to this same heaven.

Now, apart from the heaven of the stars, the air that surrounds this world (the atmosphere) is also called heaven. Birds fly “in the midst of heaven” – certainly is not God’s throne in heaven for we read in Gen. 1:20 of “fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.” In blessing Jacob, Isaac said, “God give thee of the dew of heaven,” and Moses delighted that the “heavens shall drop down dew” (see Gen. 27:28 and Deut. 33:28). This is the first heaven, where dew comes and where the clouds and the wind roam.

Since Elijah could not have gone to the heaven of God’s throne as this would contradict Jesus’ statement, the only heaven that Elijah could have gone to is the first heaven. Notice the Scripture says Elijah “went up by a WHIRLWIND into heaven” (2 Kings 2:1, 11). There could be no whirlwind in any other place but in the atmosphere surrounding this earth – in the first heaven, in which the birds fly.

Now, what happened to Elijah after he was taken by God into the atmosphere? He could not have stayed suspended in the air forever. What the Scriptures reveal is that God merely took Elijah from one place and set him in another, since about ten years later we find a letter from Elijah being sent to the new Jewish king. The letter he had others deliver (its contents are found in 2 Chron. 21:12-15) was recognized as his – proving that he was known to be alive someplace. Just how much longer he lived, the Bible does not reveal. But because “it is appointed unto men once to die,” Elijah must have died somewhat later.

In the NT, we find a similar incident of a man of God being taken away and transported to another place. After baptizing the eunuch, “the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip” –Philip was taken away just like Elijah, and like Elijah, those who witnessed the event saw him disappear from sight – “that the eunuch SAW HIM NO MORE… ” (Acts 8:39). But Philip was found in another place, as the next verse tells us that, “Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities…”

The prophecy on Elijah’s return (Malachi 4:5-6) refers to the time immediately before God’s intervention in human affairs, prophetically called the “day of the Lord” (also called “the Lord’s day” in Rev. 1:10). Jesus spoke about this prophecy in Matthew 17. He showed that the work of John the Baptist was a preliminary fulfillment of Malachi’s prophecy.

Luke was also inspired to write about the work of John (Luke 1:17). Luke said John was “in the spirit and power of Elijah,” NOT that he was literally Elijah. That Elijah had died centuries before. But John the Baptist was empowered by the same spirit which had guided the Elijah of old to point Israel’s eyes to the true God, and for much the same purpose.

An Elijah is yet to come, however, said Christ – after John was already dead. So, just as John the Baptist was the forerunner of Jesus Christ at his first coming, another is to come before the great and terrible Day of the Lord, as a forerunner of Jesus Christ at His second coming. He, like John, will come in the spirit and power of Elijah to fulfill Malachi’s prophecy.

Elijah is dead in the dust of the earth. He will return from the dead, but not before the appointed time. He will return during the resurrection of the just, at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

God bless.
 
Mailman said:
Jesus’ statement is clear and plain enough: No one has ascended up to heaven, excepting Himself, the Son of man. Now, 2 Kings did say that Elijah was taken up “into heaven.” But which heaven? Notice that there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible, not just one. If Jesus said no man had ever ascended to the heaven where He came from, then the heaven into which Elijah was taken must be a different heaven.
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As thistle pointed out, there is a difference between ascended and assumed.
 
thistle said:
You are wrong. He did not ascend. He was assumed into Heaven. Only Jesus ascended into Heaven.
Why can’t people see the important difference between the two?
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Alright, what is the Catholic teaching on this? How can he have been in Heaven if he was born in original sin and only the perfect can enter Heaven? AND, certainly none of God’s creation could go into Heaven before God was killed on Earth. How does this work?
 
aball1035 said:
I read somewhere that he was suppossed to come again. He ascended into Heaven so he never died, and is suppossed to return to Earth. Is this true?
Click to expand...
No. Elijah, as Jesus said, Elijah returned already, and this time he was John the Baptist. So Elijah already came but people did not accept his message. Elijah died.
 
adstrinity said:
Alright, what is the Catholic teaching on this? How can he have been in Heaven if he was born in original sin and only the perfect can enter Heaven? AND, certainly none of God’s creation could go into Heaven before God was killed on Earth. How does this work?
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And why is that? Is God incapable of bringing someone into heaven before Jesus died on earth?!?

I find that hard to believe.
 
NotWorthy said:
And why is that? Is God incapable of bringing someone into heaven before Jesus died on earth?!?

I find that hard to believe.
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Well, yeah. He was born in orignal sin. The reason Jesus died is to bring His human creation into Heaven. That was the whole point. If we can just be brought into Heaven at any point in the OT, what’s the point of the Crucifixion/Ressurection? Nothing unclean can enter Heaven. Though it is believed that Enoch and Elijah did not sin (as I believe I have read,) they were NOT immaculately conceived.
 
adstrinity said:
Well, yeah. He was born in orignal sin. The reason Jesus died is to bring His human creation into Heaven. That was the whole point. If we can just be brought into Heaven at any point in the OT, what’s the point of the Crucifixion/Ressurection? Nothing unclean can enter Heaven. Though it is believed that Enoch and Elijah did not sin (as I believe I have read,) they were NOT immaculately conceived.
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Jesus died to bring us a normative path to Salvation. That doesn’t mean that Jesus can’t make the rare exception.

For exhibit A), I give you the thief on the cross.

We see God do this when necessary at other times. For example, Cornelius and his men received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism. Why? So that God could show Peter that one doesn’t have to be circumcised to receive the Holy Spirit.

Regarding the “unclean into heaven” part, why couldn’t Jesus wipe their sins away with a wave of His hand? I don’t see why anything like that would stop Him? And as far as that goes, Elijah could have gone through a purgative process just as you and I hopefully will.

Um…, you do realize you are simply dealing with my opinion I hope? 😉
 
NotWorthy said:
Jesus died to bring us a normative path to Salvation. That doesn’t mean that Jesus can’t make the rare exception.

For exhibit A), I give you the thief on the cross.

We see God do this when necessary at other times. For example, Cornelius and his men received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism. Why? So that God could show Peter that one doesn’t have to be circumcised to receive the Holy Spirit.

Regarding the “unclean into heaven” part, why couldn’t Jesus wipe their sins away with a wave of His hand? I don’t see why anything like that would stop Him? And as far as that goes, Elijah could have gone through a purgative process just as you and I hopefully will.

Um…, you do realize you are simply dealing with my opinion I hope? 😉
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Dismas died after Christ. No, nobody was in Heaven before Christ. If it was the case, why not Job? Even St. John the Baptist wasn’t in Heaven before Christ and he didn’t sin.
 
adstrinity said:
Dismas died after Christ. No, nobody was in Heaven before Christ. If it was the case, why not Job? Even St. John the Baptist wasn’t in Heaven before Christ and he didn’t sin.
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Wasn’t it Christ’s Resurrection that brought in the Kingdom? His Sacrifice was necessary for this, but Christ conquered Death on Easter morning, not Good Friday.

To take it a few steps further, although the gates were open, there was still no “general admission” until Pentecost, where Baptism was given to the Church.

You still seem to link “lack of sin” with heaven. That’s not the case, for we could all earn our way into heaven. Christ is What is necessary to get to heaven. And I am not willing to speak for Him on this matter. I don’t know that Job was not in heaven or John the Baptist, and I don’t think the Church has any official stance on this (I’d be willing to be learn if anyone has this teaching).
 
aball1035 said:
I read somewhere that he was suppossed to come again. He ascended into Heaven so he never died, and is suppossed to return to Earth. Is this true?
Click to expand...
The heaven referred to is the cosmos. No one was admitted to Heaven , until the redempitive death of Jesus on the cross. All we know is that Elias was taken up in a chariot into the sky.
 
thomas_jd said:
The heaven referred to is the cosmos. No one was admitted to Heaven , until the redempitive death of Jesus on the cross. All we know is that Elias was taken up in a chariot into the sky.
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The cosmos? So, is Elijah (Elias) orbitting Jupiter or what?
 
NotWorthy said:
Wasn’t it Christ’s Resurrection that brought in the Kingdom? His Sacrifice was necessary for this, but Christ conquered Death on Easter morning, not Good Friday.

To take it a few steps further, although the gates were open, there was still no “general admission” until Pentecost, where Baptism was given to the Church.

You still seem to link “lack of sin” with heaven. That’s not the case, for we could all earn our way into heaven. Christ is What is necessary to get to heaven. And I am not willing to speak for Him on this matter. I don’t know that Job was not in heaven or John the Baptist, and I don’t think the Church has any official stance on this (I’d be willing to be learn if anyone has this teaching).
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After reading more on the Interenet, it seems like this is the Catholic stance on it; they were in Heaven before Christ.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
It should not have, never had a problem like that. I just checked it and there is no sign of any virus, you may have a pre-existing bad file.
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I just got the same thing, Copland.

It shut down all my Mozilla tabs, and then started what looked like a false Malware scan. I hope I shut it down in time. My virus control on this PC is pretty good, but it certainly tried to take over my computer.

Note: I tried to PM you with this, but evidently you’re not taking getting PM’s.
 
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