Ellen's wedding

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I read about Ellen’s wedding today–featured on the cover of People. I read the article, and I was curious as to the rings exchanged, wedding trimmings, etc…(I love wedding stuff)

I noticed that Portia, Ellen’s partner is wearing what a female typically wears in her wedding–a larger engagement type ring, long flowing Cinderalla like dress, etc. Ellen is wearing a band…that is thicker, and is dressed softer, but more masculine. The reason I bring this up, is because I thought it an interesting observation that the way Ellen was dressed, and her ring–appears ‘manly.’ (for lack of a better term) Now, Ellen has always dressed this way, but it was very obvious that Portia seems to have taken on a female role, and Ellen a male one. I thought it interesting because it seems that even with homosexual ‘marriages,’ there still seems to be a need on the part of the partners to play gender roles–even though they are the same gender. Ellen/Portia are not the only people I’ve seen this with, in gay relationships. I have noticed that with friends and prior coworkers in the past as well–someone plays the female role, and the other plays a more masculine role.

Not that it matters all that much…but it got me to thinking that we as human beings, are really naturally drawn to “an opposite” in our relationships, from a gender standpoint. :o It seemed evident at least from Ellen’s wedding.

Do you make similiar observations? I love Ellen as a comedian…really one of my faves. I know that as Catholics, we have a moral obligation to speak truth, and live it. That being said, how do you view these civil unions? Are we as a culture, redefining marriage?

Are you offended by legal unions, or would you only be offended if certain Catholic parishes across America, started bending, and permitting such marriages? ***That would ***offend, me because I know that would offend God’s word…and betray Scripture.

But–in legal unions–should the Church stay separate from state laws?

Just lots of thoughts swirling around after reading about Ellen’s wedding…sorry for rambling.:o Look forward to your replies.
 
whatevergirl said:
I read about Ellen’s wedding today–featured on the cover of People. I read the article, and I was curious as to the rings exchanged, wedding trimmings, etc…(I love wedding stuff)

I noticed that Portia, Ellen’s partner is wearing what a female typically wears in her wedding–a larger engagement type ring, long flowing Cinderalla like dress, etc. Ellen is wearing a band…that is thicker, and is dressed softer, but more masculine. The reason I bring this up, is because I thought it an interesting observation that the way Ellen was dressed, and her ring–appears ‘manly.’ (for lack of a better term) Now, Ellen has always dressed this way, but it was very obvious that Portia seems to have taken on a female role, and Ellen a male one. I thought it interesting because it seems that even with homosexual ‘marriages,’ there still seems to be a need on the part of the partners to play gender roles–even though they are the same gender. Ellen/Portia are not the only people I’ve seen this with, in gay relationships. I have noticed that with friends and prior coworkers in the past as well–someone plays the female role, and the other plays a more masculine role.

Not that it matters all that much…but it got me to thinking that we as human beings, are really naturally drawn to “an opposite” in our relationships, from a gender standpoint. :o It seemed evident at least from Ellen’s wedding.

Do you make similiar observations? I love Ellen as a comedian…really one of my faves. I know that as Catholics, we have a moral obligation to speak truth, and live it. That being said, how do you view these civil unions? Are we as a culture, redefining marriage?

Are you offended by legal unions, or would you only be offended if certain Catholic parishes across America, started bending, and permitting such marriages? ***That would ***offend, me because I know that would offend God’s word…and betray Scripture.

But–in legal unions–should the Church stay separate from state laws?

Just lots of thoughts swirling around after reading about Ellen’s wedding…sorry for rambling.:o Look forward to your replies.
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This is sick. Gross. Not open to life. Not what God intended.

This is not “marriage.” No way! Call it what it really is. An abomination.

There is God’s Law. Then, there is man’s law. When God’s Law and man’s law are not the same, God’s Law takes precedence.

Remember what happened to Sodom & Gomorrah.

God Bless.
+Pax, -Dawn
 
whatevergirl said:
I read about Ellen’s wedding today–featured on the cover of People. I read the article, and I was curious as to the rings exchanged, wedding trimmings, etc…(I love wedding stuff)

They did not have a wedding. They made a mockery of it.

Do you make similiar observations? I love Ellen as a comedian…really one of my faves. I know that as Catholics, we have a moral obligation to speak truth, and live it. That being said, how do you view these civil unions? Are we as a culture, redefining marriage?

I used to like her before she ‘came out’. Now I can’t stand her. This is an abomination.

Are you offended by legal unions, YES!! or would you only be offended if certain Catholic parishes across America, started bending, and permitting such marriages? ***That would ***offend, me because I know that would offend God’s word…and betray Scripture.

But–in legal unions–should the Church stay separate from state laws? It is disgusting.

Just lots of thoughts swirling around after reading about Ellen’s wedding…Again, it wasn’t a wedding - it was a mockery of a wedding. A marriage takes place at a wedding, and there is no marriage between gay people. sorry for rambling.:o Look forward to your replies.
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Well…I guess we have a few unambiguous answers.

I, myself, struggle with the issue of what “rights” should be accorded/denied to homosexual individuals. I think in some ways we can agree that heterosexual marriage and the bearing and raising of children per the traditions recognized by all the world’s major religions IS disctinct and SHOULD remain distinct from any civil unions governments choose to sanction for homosexual couples.

However, being convinced that homosexuality, having always existed in human history, is a condition which people are born with, not one which is casually adopted for style or fashion reasons, gives me pause when talking about limiting some societal privileges based on this status. We do not refuse to accommodate those who are left handed, hard of hearing, short-sighted, or reject the talents of those who are artistic instead of mathematical or good writers instead of techical sophisticates or otherwise “differently-abled” than the majority of the population. Why, then, would we discriminate against people who are born and acting as God designed them unless we are prepared to declare that God has made a mistake in bringing them into being?
 
DawnInTexas said:
This is sick. Gross. Not open to life. Not what God intended.

This is not “marriage.” No way! Call it what it really is. An abomination.

There is God’s Law. Then, there is man’s law. When God’s Law and man’s law are not the same, God’s Law takes precedence.

Remember what happened to Sodom & Gomorrah.

God Bless.
+Pax, -Dawn
Click to expand...
👍

~Liza
 
What is still interesting to note, is that both are behaving as playing opposite roles. While Ellen normally dresses more masculine, than feminine…I think that the pictures, etc portray that she is clearly the masculine ‘role’ of the two. And why is that necessary? I’m being rhetorical when I ask this. I have known several gay couples personally, where one plays the ‘husband’ and the other ‘the wife,’ and it just sort of naturally points out…that men marrying women were meant for marriage, by God. This is why they have the tendency to take male and female ‘roles.’

Because it really is not ‘natural.’ While the love they feel for one another is definitely real–it is not a love that can ever be open to life, which is what God intended. Even if one is not Catholic, I would imagine that most Christians can agree that marriage involves being open to life, through procreation. There is no procreative aspect to gay ‘marriage,’ so while it seems that Ellen and her partner are happy, they will always be missing a vital component to their union.

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
We are not ‘discriminating’ against people born with the homosexual attraction in stating that they cannot ‘marry’ someone of the same gender.

It is true that SSA is ‘disordered’. I know that ‘hurts’ us to hear in this supposedly oh-so-tolerant society–that people can be disordered. And be ‘born’ that way.

God loves us. He does not create ‘junk’ --but if we can state that He has created people with ‘disorders’ there must be a good reason.

Is that ‘reason’ so that we can ‘work with the disorder’ such that we make it into something that isn’t viewed as ‘disorder’ at all–saying, "OK, you want to be married, you ‘can’ marry so that we aren’t ‘making you feel second-class’. . .

or is that reason for these people to bear a very difficult and public cross. Has God in His wisdom allowed this terribly difficult cross to come to people who, if they FOLLOWED HIS WILL, and bore that cross chastely and in obedience even in difficulty, would be living saints who would help to bring other so-called ‘normal’ people steeped in sexual sin ‘back’ from their sins?

Could you imagine how, if groups of people with SSA, stepped ‘away’ from the ‘enablers’ trying to make ‘evil’ look ‘good’, and said, “You know what? This is an awful cross but I know that God does not want us to give into evil. Take away your satanic attempts to give us evil because we ‘want it’, and let us choose good, even though it is enormously difficult, because it is God’s will?”

Could you imagine all the people screaming for sex ‘on demand’ being SHAMED (and a darn good thing THAT would be) to see people ‘just like them’ walking away from evil???

How they might start to think, “Maybe my actions aren’t so ‘good’ after all. Maybe I’m weak and cowardly and I should be trying to be strong and brave like people SHOULD be instead of having people trying to help me be even weaker and more cowardly and say that they’re doing it because they LOVE me. Do people who really love others want them to be weak and cowardly? Do we let people we love do things that will hurt them, rather than try to help them do things that will cure the hurt and make them strong and ETERNALLY happy?”
 
Island_Oak said:
Well…I guess we have a few unambiguous answers.

I, myself, struggle with the issue of what “rights” should be accorded/denied to homosexual individuals. I think in some ways we can agree that heterosexual marriage and the bearing and raising of children per the traditions recognized by all the world’s major religions IS disctinct and SHOULD remain distinct from any civil unions governments choose to sanction for homosexual couples.

However, being convinced that homosexuality, having always existed in human history, is a condition which people are born with, not one which is casually adopted for style or fashion reasons, gives me pause when talking about limiting some societal privileges based on this status. We do not refuse to accommodate those who are left handed, hard of hearing, short-sighted, or reject the talents of those who are artistic instead of mathematical or good writers instead of techical sophisticates or otherwise “differently-abled” than the majority of the population. Why, then, would we discriminate against people who are born and acting as God designed them unless we are prepared to declare that God has made a mistake in bringing them into being?
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Hi Island;

There is no proof scientifically, rather speculation by well meaning scientists, to show that there is in fact a gay gene. If the media hypes up something long enough though, people start believing it. That being said, I don’t believe Scripture would teach against a lifestyle, and then God create the person to have a gene to bear a lifestyle, He never intended. I don’t believe that God would create us to be procreative in marriage (this is a component) and then at the same time, create/design people to be attracted to something that goes against His Laws.

The thing I wrestle with, here with reading Ellen’s story–is that she really believes she is in love, and she probably is…she truly believes that she has found her soulmate. And while it can be seen as an abomination, I just wonder what God thinks. 😦
 
whatevergirl said:
While Ellen normally dresses more masculine, than feminine…I think that the pictures, etc portray that she is clearly the masculine ‘role’ of the two. And why is that necessary? I’m being rhetorical when I ask this. I have known several gay couples personally, where one plays the ‘husband’ and the other ‘the wife,’ and it just sort of naturally points out…that men marrying women were meant for marriage, by God. This is why they have the tendency to take male and female ‘roles.’
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I think this is definitely true - we are generally made such that women and men complement each other and are drawn to the opposite sex; and some vestige of this is still intact even if sexual orientation is not straight.

That being said, I’m not sure how broad a conclusion you can really draw from Ellen’s wedding. There are plenty of gay couples where male and female roles are not clear-cut like that. Likewise, there are many heterosexual couples where the woman “wears the pants” while the man is a more natural nurturing caregiver to the children, as well as plenty of couples where both spouses are more “masculine” or “feminine” overall.
 
whatevergirl said:
I read about Ellen’s wedding today–featured on the cover of People. I read the article, and I was curious as to the rings exchanged, wedding trimmings, etc…(I love wedding stuff)

Not that it matters all that much…but it got me to thinking that we as human beings, are really naturally drawn to “an opposite” in our relationships, from a gender standpoint. :o It seemed evident at least from Ellen’s wedding.

Do you make similiar observations? I love Ellen as a comedian…really one of my faves. I know that as Catholics, we have a moral obligation to speak truth, and live it. That being said, how do you view these civil unions? Are we as a culture, redefining marriage?

I am neutral about gay civil unions and not offended

Are you offended by legal unions, or would you only be offended if certain Catholic parishes across America, started bending, and permitting such marriages? ***That would ***offend, me because I know that would offend God’s word…and betray Scripture.

But–in legal unions–should the Church stay separate from state laws?

Yes it should

Just lots of thoughts swirling around after reading about Ellen’s wedding…sorry for rambling.:o Look forward to your replies.
Click to expand...
My replies are bolded, inside your question box
 
It’s a common stereotype of lesbians that many of us are significantly more masculine than the “average” straight woman, and, in my experience, that’s true.
 
The gay men and lesbian women I know both share common similarities in their relationships…but not exclusively.

I know a gay couple…both very masculine to all outward appearances. Domestically they share varied “gender” roles. One of the men is a fantastic cook…the other likes to clean house and decorate it seems. Both like baseball and are avid baseball junkies…they both are Mariner fans…in fact they met at a Mariner game in Seattle several years ago. They both enjoy gardening. I would say one of them does take on a dominant gender role usually occupied by the male in a hetero relationship…however it is more “fluid” and changing…there is no “defined” role…they share different roles…sometimes the role is more “passive” in that our society has defined it as “feminine”…but in their acutal lives it is not as “set in concrete” as in straight relationships.

The lesbians I know are quite similar in their roles as are the gay men. One is more “dominant” and tends to exhibit more “masculine” traits…however both consider themselves “lipstick lesbians” and they “clean up” quite nicely…when we have gone to dinner they both definitely get the “looks” of admiration from males in the restaurant we go to. You’d not know they were lesbian unless you knew them. The more “masculine” woman tends to take care of the cars and yard and the more “feminine” partner tends to cook and clean…however again the roles they play are fluid and are generated by our societal expectations…I mean, they have to “exist” in “our world”.

I know some straight marriage partners who have reversed roles…she is a “working mom” and he is a “stay at home dad.” Yet except for a few comments from a few men who don’t seem to be as secure in their own masculine roles…it works very well for them.
 
Annn said:
It’s a common stereotype of lesbians that many of us are significantly more masculine than the “average” straight woman, and, in my experience, that’s true.
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Hi Annn…I appreciate your opinion…and candor. I have often wondered why that is? In essence…why would a person want to display behaviors, that they don’t find appealing in the gender he/she mirrors (for lack of better word)? I don’t know if I’m asking that right…I hope you know what I’m trying to say. lol
 
Tantum_ergo said:
We are not ‘discriminating’ against people born with the homosexual attraction in stating that they cannot ‘marry’ someone of the same gender.

It is true that SSA is ‘disordered’. I know that ‘hurts’ us to hear in this supposedly oh-so-tolerant society–that people can be disordered. And be ‘born’ that way.

God loves us. He does not create ‘junk’ --but if we can state that He has created people with ‘disorders’ there must be a good reason.

Is that ‘reason’ so that we can ‘work with the disorder’ such that we make it into something that isn’t viewed as ‘disorder’ at all–saying, "OK, you want to be married, you ‘can’ marry so that we aren’t ‘making you feel second-class’. . .

or is that reason for these people to bear a very difficult and public cross. Has God in His wisdom allowed this terribly difficult cross to come to people who, if they FOLLOWED HIS WILL, and bore that cross chastely and in obedience even in difficulty, would be living saints who would help to bring other so-called ‘normal’ people steeped in sexual sin ‘back’ from their sins?

Could you imagine how, if groups of people with SSA, stepped ‘away’ from the ‘enablers’ trying to make ‘evil’ look ‘good’, and said, “You know what? This is an awful cross but I know that God does not want us to give into evil. Take away your satanic attempts to give us evil because we ‘want it’, and let us choose good, even though it is enormously difficult, because it is God’s will?”

Could you imagine all the people screaming for sex ‘on demand’ being SHAMED (and a darn good thing THAT would be) to see people ‘just like them’ walking away from evil???

How they might start to think, “Maybe my actions aren’t so ‘good’ after all. Maybe I’m weak and cowardly and I should be trying to be strong and brave like people SHOULD be instead of having people trying to help me be even weaker and more cowardly and say that they’re doing it because they LOVE me. Do people who really love others want them to be weak and cowardly? Do we let people we love do things that will hurt them, rather than try to help them do things that will cure the hurt and make them strong and ETERNALLY happy?”
Click to expand...
This is a really insightful post. Thanks for posting. I have much to say, but I need to digest what you’ve written a bit more.
 
Annn…are you Catholic? Or are you seeking to be? Just a random question…lol I think I ran across a post of yours in another thread recently, but don’t remember if you remarked on if you’re Catholic or not…or were…or?
 
I didn’t watch “the wedding” I won’t be looking at People or Us or We or whatever to satisfy my curiosity.

I would like to address the issue of “since they’re made that way” they should be allowed to take on whatever society offers.

I have a cousin who was born in the 1950’s. She was a “thalidomide” baby. She was born with badly deformed arms. She could play basketball and volleyball. She could not fulfill a life dream to become a police officer as she lacked formed hands. I have a dear friend who was born blind, he would love to race cars. That’s not going to happen outside a video arcade.

I had a cousin, who was the unabashed favorite member of our extended family. He was a homosexual. He would have done anything to want to be with a woman, get married and have kids. It wasn’t in the cards. So he spent his life being the best “father figure” he could be. as a recreation leader at a playground, a drama teacher, babysitter, conspirator in arms, a volunteer for the city arts program, and being the best uncle, brother, son and cousin in the world.

It was a life well spent.

He died from an aneurysm. He may not have had a child, but he had lots of children whose lives he touched and enriched. His life will be remembered and cherished as fully and as long as any spouse or parent.
 
whatevergirl said:
Hi Annn…I appreciate your opinion…and candor. I have often wondered why that is? In essence…why would a person want to display behaviors, that they don’t find appealing in the gender he/she mirrors (for lack of better word)? I don’t know if I’m asking that right…I hope you know what I’m trying to say. lol
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I responded via PM…basically, I think it often is much more complicated than “that one is the “man” and that one is the “woman””
 
DawnInTexas said:
This is sick. Gross. Not open to life. Not what God intended.

This is not “marriage.” No way! Call it what it really is. An abomination.

There is God’s Law. Then, there is man’s law. When God’s Law and man’s law are not the same, God’s Law takes precedence.

Remember what happened to Sodom & Gomorrah.

God Bless.
+Pax, -Dawn
Click to expand...
I am SO glad i joined this site. God tells us to not judge one another. He is in the only position to judge. Why do you think you’re better than someone that’s a homosexual? Because you supposedly follow the scripture…apparently you need look further because you are not a person of God.

Everyone saying that it is so diguisting, honestly makes me sad and is making my stomach turn. A person is a person, and God may not like what they are doing, but he says that he hates the sin, not the sinner.

Someone also said that they “liked Ellen before she came out of the closet but now she can’t stand her”. Why? did she all of a sudden change because you now are aware that she is attracted to women. Get over it.

Everyone sins, no sin is more excusable then another.
 
shayla675 said:
I am SO glad i joined this site. God tells us to not judge one another. He is in the only position to judge. Why do you think you’re better than someone that’s a homosexual? Because you supposedly follow the scripture…apparently you need look further because you are not a person of God.

Hi shayla–welcome, first of all.🙂

Everyone saying that it is so diguisting, honestly makes me sad and is making my stomach turn. A person is a person, and God may not like what they are doing, but he says that he hates the sin, not the sinner.

This I agree with–I don’t look at Ellen’s lifestyle, as any different than two hetero people living together with no marriage at all. I do believe the Bible,that homosexuality is sinful, and while we have a certain responsibility to gently admonish one another when we’re falling, we should be cognizant to not blur the person, with the sin. I still watch Ellen–I think her show and her standup are great. I think perhaps, shayla, the person who commented about not being able to stand her when ‘she came out,’ might have to do with that a lot of her ‘schtick’ now talks about that. I’m guessing…

Someone also said that they “liked Ellen before she came out of the closet but now she can’t stand her”. Why? did she all of a sudden change because you now are aware that she is attracted to women. Get over it.

Everyone sins, no sin is more excusable then another.
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I have always felt that while I believe the lifestyle to be sinful, and we are called to try to help our brothers and sisters to Christ…God will be the final judge of us ALL.
 
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