Elope? Is it possible?

[rayne89]

Convalidations are supposed to be more private. They are the validation of an invalid marriage, which could confuse or even cause scandal to some. Most priests will keep these relatively private (open only to the couple and witnesses, or couple/witnesses and close family.) Some priests will allow for a large wedding, but it is not the norm.

I know you mean well so please don’t take this wrong but this bugs me. We had our marriage convalidated 13 years after our wedding chapel marriage. Let me say I go to a very traditional church -we kneel to receive communion, confession is available before each and every Mass -trying to point out our parish is very much inline with the magisteriam -anywhoo…

Our convalidation was put in the church bulletin as a wedding along with other weddings that occured that weekend. It was funny for me to see my maiden name next to my first name after so many years.

We were allowed to invite as many or as few people as we wanted (we had to have at least 2 witnesses.) We had about 30 people in attendance. Instead of causing scandal I thought of it as a witness to how important our faith was to us that we would do this and celebrate it publicly. We had family members (fallen away Catholics) that couldn’t understand why we cared what the church thought and didn’t it bother us blah blah blah.

We had two of dear friends -husband and wife who are devout Catholics as our witnesses (best man, matron of honor). Our daughter was our flower girl. She was 9 at the time and I went over it with her several times so I knew she understood what this was about.

One of our friends’ eight children was the ring bearer. I had rosary woven into my bouquet and during the nuptual service, (we did not have a Mass due to most of guests being either protestant or fallen away Catholics (didn’t want to worry about people receiving unworthily), we placed roses at Mary’s feet. We had an organist, and a cantor who sung so beautifully. Our priest during the homily explained why the sacrament of marriage was so important. My husband and I did receive communion for the first time after abstaining for months.

It was an absolutely amazing, beautiful day and one of the highlights of my life. When I told our priest we were married outside the church he said with a big grin “Ah, we must have a wedding then.” It reminded me of the prodigal son who had returned and his father threw him a big party.

I realize the OP’s situation is different. We were completely unaware of church teaching when we were orginally married. I wasn’t even going to church at the time. I had just graduated highschool.

I don’t feel that convalidation is something that needs to be hidden behind closed doors like some awful secret. I’m so glad our priest didn’t treat it that way.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I don’t feel that convalidation is something that needs to be hidden behind closed doors like some awful secret. I’m so glad our priest didn’t treat it that way.

I am very glad you had a wonderful, joyful wedding day! It may not be the norm, but your priest allowed this, it was fine, so congrats! :clapping:

I have a hunch that as more catholics choose this beautiful step of having invalid marriages convalidated, the norms will change. I do not believe that it’s cannon law for them to be private, it just tends to be that way to help people not get the idea to just elope for now…then get convalidated years later. I think that’s all that’s behind this idea of keeping convalidations more private.

Bottom line: your marriage is blessed…you are back with the church. PRAISE GOD! :bowdown2:

 

[teachingtarheel]

My husband and I were married last month in a HUGE Catholic wedding. We had a wonderful day and we wouldn’t change one minute of it. However, a few months before the wedding, when the stress was on (and after my mother had a horrible accident, surgery, a wheelchair, etc.) we wondered about eloping too. We were told by a friend that as long as you meet the marriage prep guidelines set forth by your diocese that your priest can contact a priest in the place where you want to elope (Mexico, the Bahamas, etc) and if you get married in a Catholic Church by a Catholic priest, it was ok, since you would have done all the prep with your own parish priest. I don’t have any ‘proof’ that this is the case, but it seemed to make sense to us. Just something to think about- if you’re unsure, ASK YOUR PRIEST! Don’t take my word for it…Just something to think about. Enjoy your engagement- all this preparation isn’t for one day, it is for your lives together- try to remember that, it helped us! Good Luck!

 

[Amaris]

Is my situation elopement? I’m worried.

I’m an American, my FH is European. We’ll be living there. His country won’t recognize his marriage if it does not take place in the district house (civil). We’re doing that with just his parents/grandparents/sister several weeks before the big church wedding. We will not consummate after the civil - we view it as the equivilent of getting the licsence, though on all legal documents, the civil wedding date is our wedding date. His grandparents did the same thing way back when. Most people in his country just do the civil and skip the church, though they are nominally catholic.

His priest and my priest here both say it will be a valid church marriage, even though we’ll already be married by the state, because of the country’s laws. But what about the church laws? Now I’m really worried

They also don’t have any sort of marriage prep over there. We met with the priest performing the ceremony once and all he wanted to know was whether I was Anglican or Catholic (I’m RC from birth). There had been a misunderstanding. He told me to make up the entire mass - readings, prayers, music - anything I wanted was okay. I was very taken aback. And this priest is the head priest for the Antwerp Catholic school system, it’s not like he’s just out of seminary himself, or some fringe heretic.

My priest (VERY traditional) said that he knows enough about me and my FH that he thinks we’re prepared to marry without Pre-Cana or any sort of Prep. I kind of agree, but worry about how lax it is over there.

 

[teachingtarheel]

My husband and I knew each other for years before getting engaged. We knew each other extremely well- had solid spiritual lives and were very aware of church teachings and once we were engaged, we knew we were prepared to live them as a married couple. That said, I think everyone needs marriage prep. We didn’t think we did, and thank goodness the church knows more than we do, because we did need the prep. There are so many little things that go into being someone’s husband or wife- things related to your religion/spiritual life and things that aren’t. I look at it this way, you have to have a lerner’s permit to drive for a year or so in most states, you go to 12+ years of school to prepare for the work world, you have internships in many professions before you are set out to work…all these things (which are far less important than your sacramental vocation) require preparation…We benefitted from our prep immensely- I highly recommend some sort of prep- Good Luck!

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

When people are talking about a “big wedding” that takes place after the smaller wedding, I am assuming they are referring to the reception? If not, then you could always consider the possibility of having a small Catholic wedding as soon as you’d like, and then keep the reception for the date you planned. I wouldn’t personally advise it, for the reasons others have stated. But it would be a way to accomplish your goal of being married sooner, and still including the relatives who can’t make it until later. You’d just have to save the dress, and cancel the actual church ceremony.

 

[Amaris]

My husband and I knew each other for years before getting engaged. We knew each other extremely well- had solid spiritual lives and were very aware of church teachings and once we were engaged, we knew we were prepared to live them as a married couple. That said, I think everyone needs marriage prep. We didn’t think we did, and thank goodness the church knows more than we do, because we did need the prep. There are so many little things that go into being someone’s husband or wife- things related to your religion/spiritual life and things that aren’t. I look at it this way, you have to have a lerner’s permit to drive for a year or so in most states, you go to 12+ years of school to prepare for the work world, you have internships in many professions before you are set out to work…all these things (which are far less important than your sacramental vocation) require preparation…We benefitted from our prep immensely- I highly recommend some sort of prep- Good Luck!

Oh, I WANT Prep, very badly, know there’s a good reason for it even among couples who have been best friends for 12 years as we have, and worry about the reprecussions. The problem is that we’re on two different continents most of the time, and now that we’re together in America for the next week, there’s no time for the usual classes, and once we’re in Europe come June, the prep classes simply don’t exist, at least not in Flanders. We’d have to go to a different country to sign up or something, which seems impossible at this point.

I was VERY amazed and startled to realize there was zero preparation, even among the practicing, devout catholics. FH’s cousin was married by the bishop two years ago, I attended, and not only was there no prep, in the place of the 2nd reading and gospel, there was the retelling of a children’s story about rabbits finding love.

I will say that when I am in the states, my faith is lukewarm. I do everything I’m supposed to, go through the motions, follow every rule (I question/struggle, but always submit in the end), partake in the sacraments, etc, but don’t feel any sort of passion or fire for Christ or the Church. When I’m in Europe though, where all the kneelers have been taken out, they preach that eucharist is for everyone, and confession straight to God is just as good as anything else, and family obligations are more important than mass should they coincide…where the old churches are run down and the new chapels look like cafeterias with power point displays and nary a crucifix in sight and my FH and I are the only people under the age of 75…I feel like it makes me a better Catholic. I feel my faith more, I want to live it more, show people how great it can be, get them to return to their roots. So a little good comes of it.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I will say that when I am in the states, my faith is lukewarm. I do everything I’m supposed to, go through the motions, follow every rule (I question/struggle, but always submit in the end), partake in the sacraments, etc, but don’t feel any sort of passion or fire for Christ or the Church. When I’m in Europe though, where all the kneelers have been taken out, they preach that eucharist is for everyone, and confession straight to God is just as good as anything else, and family obligations are more important than mass should they coincide…where the old churches are run down and the new chapels look like cafeterias with power point displays and nary a crucifix in sight and my FH and I are the only people under the age of 75…I feel like it makes me a better Catholic. I feel my faith more, I want to live it more, show people how great it can be, get them to return to their roots. So a little good comes of it.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here, but I think you have painted a very sad state of affairs in “Europe” (what part of Europe, I don’t know).

I do not understand why your location determines whether you are lukewarm about your faith or not, but I would urge you to practice your faith with the same devotion wherever you are. Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist every day. Our location hardly matters.

 

[rayne100]

Nope! :nope: It would be an invalid marriage!

If you elope, you are not married in the eyes of God! So…every so called “marital act” would be FORNICATION…not marital.

Also, you would have to get your marriage convalidated. Big church wedding would be totally out of the picture for a convalidation. You would loose the “big church” opportunity, as it is inappropriate for a convalidation.

That’s not what I was told. According to my proest, he said that there could be a sizeable amount of people at the ceremony, with in reason. Like no more that 100 or so people. Since I am only planning on inviting 80, there is no problem according to him.
Maybe I was told differently, I suggest speaking with your parrish priest to see what he deems a reasonable amount of people.

 

[Amaris]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here, but I think you have painted a very sad state of affairs in “Europe” (what part of Europe, I don’t know).

I do not understand why your location determines whether you are lukewarm about your faith or not, but I would urge you to practice your faith with the same devotion wherever you are. Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist every day. Our location hardly matters.

Northern Europe, and thank you - I couldn’t think of what my day was missing until I read your post, and then I realized I hadn’t yet been properly chastized by a stranger.

You have no clue as to the state of my soul, or the happenings in my life. Considering the physical, mental, and spiritual torment I endure I’m lucky not to have committed suicide, so I think I’m doing pretty damn well all things considered, thank you very much.

Not all of us are lucky enough to get to choose our feelings and experiences, or to be totally unaffected by horrible ones. I shall remember your perfection in worship next time I fail in mine.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Northern Europe, and thank you - I couldn’t think of what my day was missing until I read your post, and then I realized I hadn’t yet been properly chastized by a stranger.

You have no clue as to the state of my soul, or the happenings in my life. Considering the physical, mental, and spiritual torment I endure I’m lucky not to have committed suicide, so I think I’m doing pretty damn well all things considered, thank you very much.

Not all of us are lucky enough to get to choose our feelings and experiences, or to be totally unaffected by horrible ones. I shall remember your perfection in worship next time I fail in mine.

Amaris,

I am very sorry if my post gave offense or has opened up wounds for you. That was certainly not my intention. Nor did I ever mean to imply that I am perfect. Far from it!

What I intended to offer was encouragement to practice your faith with the same devotion no matter where it is that you are located. I would encourage every Catholic to do the same, including myself. Sometimes I find myself getting very excited that some cardinal or some certain priest will be celebrating the Mass, and I always try to remind myself that Jesus is present even when I do not know the celebrant. He is also there when I cannot understand the priest’s homily or the readings are not in English (both things that can put me in a bit of a bad mood when I my focus is not on Jesus, present on the altar, offering Himself to me).

If my words do not apply to you because I misunderstand your situation, then feel free to take them with a grain of salt. Again, please accept my sincere apology for any offense I caused.

God bless you.

 

[Sarabande]

Well, most people (may be some rare exceptions out there) who elope aren’t going to postpone the consumation. Call it a hunch, but they are probably seeking an “okay” to be…well…marital! For Catholics, this is not a blessing to be marital, it’s simply an invalid marriage that would have to be convalidated. Anything that happens before that convalidation would be fornication.

It’s funny you mentioned this. My grandparents’ elopement was one of those rare exceptions. He was a Lutheran, she was a very devout Catholic. He was going to be shipped off to war as a marine during WWII and wanted to marry her. She wanted to be married by a priest, but, understandably so, he did not want to do it without her parents’ permission. (She was 16 and he was 19 and no one but her grandmother knew about it.) So, she brought her own grandmother with her to the elopement, but she made him understand that they could not consummate the marriage until it was blessed by a priest. They got married by the mayor. Afterwards, my grandmother went home with her grandmother. My grandfather went home with his brother. When he came home from the Pacific 2 years later and she went out to CA to meet him, she refused to consummate the marriage until a priest would convalidate the marriage. They found a parish with two priests who were very kind to them. Since my Grandfather was a Protestant, they had the marriage convalidated in the sacristy. They were married for 50 years before he passed away. I know this is true because my grandmother and I are very close and she told me about this just a few years ago. It wasn’t until recently that she told anyone about this. No one but she, my grandfather and those two priests knew about it before then.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Are you saying that Europe doesn’t recognize weddings done in the states?

The Catholic Church teaches that the couple confers the sacrament on each other. So there is one exchange of vows in accord with proper canonical form. If you then go to another denomination and repeat those vows there, you are “simulating the sacrament.” Which is a grave no-no. You are implying that one or the other “vow” was insufficient. That’s why the Church allows a dispensation from canonical form in some instances where a Catholic wants to marry a Christian of another rite or denomination.

To the OP, I would say you must be very careful to respect the rules of your church. If you don’t, how can you expect your spouse to come to love and respect them also? The temptation to elope hits many couples during the insanity of wedding preparation. Marry in haste, repent at leisure. I find that those who take shortcuts in this most-important endeavor come to regret it later. It will come back around and bite you.

We don’t allow that with college degrees. “Here’s your diploma. Do the walk-through at graduation even though you haven’t taken all your credits.” Personally, I wish my engagement were longer. If it were, I may have called off the wedding and saved myself a lot of trouble. But the fiance was one of those who wanted to take shortcuts and the rules shouldn’t apply to him. I found that the rules didn’t apply to him in every other area of his life either. I was 23 and didn’t realize the implications of that.

All those people you want at the ceremony won’t be there to live with you and help you carry through on your vows. Keep your priorities on what will affect your marriage. The marriage is a lifetime. The wedding is only a day.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sarabande, the kind of integrity your grandparents showed and proved to each other was why their marriage lasted so long.

 

[Sarabande]

Sarabande, the kind of integrity your grandparents showed and proved to each other was why their marriage lasted so long.

Yes… they truly had a model marriage in that respect and I always look to them and my parents as inspiration for my marriage. My grandfather was a wonderful man and respected everything that my grandmother believed. 8 pregnancies, 6 children, 2-3 jobs to raise that family with an injured leg that affected him his entire life. He was actually going to join RCIA and finally become a Catholic right before he passed away. He was 69. It seemed as if God was holding out until my grandfather
fully chose to become Catholic. Even the priest at my grandmother’s parish came out to the funeral home since he had only attended my grandmother’s church and hadn’t been to a Lutheran church since he was 14. It would have been wonderful to see him finish out RCIA and become a fully baptized Catholic, but I believe it was in his heart anyway. Geez… I miss him.