Embargo

[Scardinoz]

This should be an interesting discussion. I’m sure there will be widely varying viewpoints. To avoid inviting off-topic diatribes, the subject matter will be dark chocolates.

The pope, John F. Kennedy, and Che Guevara walk into a bar…

The United States, as I’m sure most are aware, has had an embargo on Cuba since 1960.

I enjoy dark chocolates. I enjoy the flavor nuances of different dark chocolates presented by cocoa grown in this region or that, aged through this method or that - similarly to how one appreciates wine. I enjoy mostly Nicaraguan and Dominican dark chocolates but a few of my favorite dark chocolates come from Cuba. The earth, coffee, and cream flavors are abundant, and they have a wonderful aroma.

Now then, I am quite dismayed that there is clearly no legal means of sampling these fine chocolates. I read up on the embargo at the Treasury Department’s website, I hit Wikipedia, and I discuss it with Bill Ayers. I find that the embargo has not hurt the Cuban government at all. It has, however, hurt the Cuban people. American patented medications (both day-to-day and life saving) are not attainable in Cuba, food is often hard to come by or outrageously expensive, necessities are lacking for children, and vehicles run on old parts. Since the Cuban government does not give :twocents: about their people, they are not bothered and, rather, use it as a hay for their propaganda fire.

I deliberate and decide, as a Catholic Christian, I can not morally recognize this embargo and decide to get these Cuban dark chocolates whenever I desire them.

What say ye?

 

[George_Stegmeir]

Use some common sense! There is a big difference between Patriotism (Politics) and Religious ethics. Remember the Biblical quotation: “Render to Caesar…”

 

[Insight]

Hi Scardinoz, I tend to agree, the embargo seems to be taking its toll on the Cuban people, not the Cuban government. Don’t know about the chocolates, but I’m happy when I can get a cuban cigar.

God Bless

 

[puzzleannie]

This sh

I deliberate and decide, as a Catholic Christian, I can not morally recognize this embargo and decide to get these Cuban dark chocolates whenever I desire them.

What say ye?

when you find a source let me know, but I prefer my chocolate, and my coffee, to be fair trade which I doubt Cuba participates in such options, but willing to be educated. Anything for the sake of chocolate, this is too important to ignore. In fact, we should raise these issues in the presidential debates.

 

[GEddie]

Just be sure that you are ready to take the heat if/when you are found out.

Caesar has never been known for toleration of dissension at ground level.

Seriously, though, since we are still semi-democratic, isn’t it past time to lobby for a lifting of the embargo? I mean, hardly anybody remembers why we are doing it, anymore, and the old mantra of “Communism BAD” strikes me as funny in a world filled with low-priced Chinese crud.

And President Obama has proven that he does not need the goodwill of the Florida Republicans to gain his reelection.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Insight]

And President Obama has proven that he does not need the goodwill of the Florida Republicans to gain his reelection.

Wasn’t abolishing the embargo one of Obama’s campaign promises? It seems like that’s another one he forgot. I’m still furious at Notre Dame for honoring him despite his mania for murdering pre-born babies. It wasn’t until 5/2/11 that Jenkins finally backed off prosecuting those protesting that horror show. Notre Dame gave those protestors two years of hell for quietly praying Rosaries. They were fined thousands of dollars and were forced to make many trips back to Indiana for court appearances. Jenkins could not have been more aggressive in persecuting these living Saints to honor his deadly hero.

Voting4Life.org/Pages/007_Notre_Dame.htm
God Bless

 

[MrsScardinoz]

when you find a source let me know, but I prefer my chocolate, and my coffee, to be fair trade which I doubt Cuba participates in such options, but willing to be educated. Anything for the sake of chocolate, this is too important to ignore. In fact, we should raise these issues in the presidential debates.

What if I have someone who pays the Cuban cocoa farmers a fair price and has the chocolates hand rolled by Cuban people who are paid a fair price? This takes the Cuban government out of the equation.

However, this would mean I am not only breaking the Cuban embargo but also breaking Cuban laws.

 

[MrsScardinoz]

That was meant to be my husband posting. He didn’t sign me out first.

 

[Spirithound]

This should be an interesting discussion. I’m sure there will be widely varying viewpoints. To avoid inviting off-topic diatribes, the subject matter will be dark chocolates.

What say ye?

I say nay.

You do not have a natural right to dark chocolate (we’re not talking about stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family). Therefore your desire for dark chocolate cannot invoke the principle of double effect.

There are other ways to help the Cuban people through charities, and so again the principle of double effect cannot apply.

 

[puzzleannie]

don’t you be hand rollin’ my chocolate around

since I am not in charge of how anyone pays their chocolate workers there is not much I can do about it except believe the tenuous promise of the fair trade people that their product is indeed produced organically, sustainably, with respect for the environment and with better working conditions and pay for those who produce it. It only raises the price by 3x, so that’s fair.

Since the days of Jefferson embargoes have proven to be pretty much worthless for gaining any foreign policy ends, so double effect does not apply, as there is no effect whatever.

 

[Spirithound]

Since the days of Jefferson embargoes have proven to be pretty much worthless for gaining any foreign policy ends, so double effect does not apply, as there is no effect whatever.

eh? The absence of the desired effect does not imply the absence of any effect…

 

[Rolltide]

Certain people can apply for a license to travel to Cuba. This includes journalists, academics, and students participating in scholarly exchanges. The way this works is that the license grants an actual waiver to the Treasury Department’s embargo. Since this is a true waiver, it not only allows travel, but allows the person to bring back a normal amount of goods as if the embargo never existed. This is still limited, but one box of cigars, a certain amount of bottles of rum, and other goods (such as chocolate) are permitted. One restriction still remains, however. Once you are back in the United States, these items may NOT be resold. They can, however, be given away. Perhaps you can find someone online that is going to Cuba, give them some cash ahead of time, and get them to obtain some chocolate for you legally.

For the record, I work as a Cuban historian, and I AM one of those eligible for a license. Sadly, however, I do not currently have any funding to travel there, but I might at some point in the next few years.

 

[Dale_M]

I deliberate and decide, as a Catholic Christian, I can not morally recognize this embargo and decide to get these Cuban dark chocolates whenever I desire them.

What say ye?

I think that if you truly believe the embargo is immoral you should work to overturn it. Make it into a social and political issue which will become part of the national debate.

Saying that the embargo is immoral and that this justifies breaking the law obligates you to more than simply indulging a sweet tooth.

 

[GEddie]

I think that if you truly believe the embargo is immoral you should work to overturn it. Make it into a social and political issue which will become part of the national debate.

Saying that the embargo is immoral and that this justifies breaking the law obligates you to more than simply indulging a sweet tooth.

Indeed.

Rendering unto Caesar requires us to follow the civil law, even if it seems stupid to us, unless and until we can get it changed, or there is a serious reason to break it. Chocolate is not a serious (enough) reason.

Just as in the Church, we are to assent to what it teaches, even if it requires us to change our life.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[MrsScardinoz]

Since this is a true waiver, it not only allows travel, but allows the person to bring back a normal amount of goods as if the embargo never existed. This is still limited, but one box of cigars, a certain amount of bottles of rum, and other goods (such as chocolate) are permitted.

This is no longer the case. The only Cuban goods that can be brought back under current restrictions are strictly those of an informational nature, such as literature, artwork, music, et cetera. The treasury department does not allow you to bring back material goods such as cigars, rum, and chocolates at this time.

Saying that the embargo is immoral and that this justifies breaking the law obligates you to more than simply indulging a sweet tooth.

That is well stated. I would further state that this is true even if one believes that the supposed immorality of the embargo negates our obligation to obey it. Things that are immoral and harmful to our fellow man should be changed for the better, not simply ignored.

Cheers,
Zach
(The amazing husband, presumably)

 

[Rolltide]

This is no longer the case. The only Cuban goods that can be brought back under current restrictions are strictly those of an informational nature, such as literature, artwork, music, et cetera. The treasury department does not allow you to bring back material goods such as cigars, rum, and chocolates at this time.

I stand corrected. The regulations have been updated since the last time I applied for a license.