Embarrassing news item for Catholics

  • Thread starter Thread starter dmelosi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dmelosi

Guest
I could not help but feel embarrasement as a Catholic at the link to the survey below.

religioustolerance.org/abo_poll.htm

These results are a reality and call for a much bigger effort from our church leaders to overcome.

I for one would rather see a strong statement from the church that clearly states “don’t vote for any candidate that supports pro choice. PERIOD”

The efforts to publish the Catholic Voters Guide have to be fool proof in that some in the media successfully sabatoged some of the effort by claiming that the Vatican’s version did not agree with Catholic Answer’s version. That needs to be clarified and bulletproof.
 
I am not at all embarrased by this at all.

First, how did they qualify what you are in the survey? Did they take your word at it? Most likely.

If they did that then they got a lot of people who call themselves Catholic (like a certain Mr Kerry) who are not truely Catholics.

To be a Catholic one must hold to all the Church Teaches. When you are pro-abortion, you are not a Catholic.
 
The trouble with polls are that they can be slanted any direction the pollster wants it to go.

My questions would be:
What groups of people were surveyed? Where was the survey conducted? When was it conducted? (for example, liberal areas or conservative areas? Large cities, suburbs, or rural areas? Practicing Catholics or non-practicing? Angry Catholics or contented Catholics? etc. etc.)

Exactly how were the questions worded? (remember the trick question, “Have you stopped beating your wife?”)

Ya gotta take some of these surveys with a grain of salt. Pretty obvious to me what this one is up to…
 
40.png
ByzCath:
I am not at all embarrased by this at all.

First, how did they qualify what you are in the survey? Did they take your word at it? Most likely.

If they did that then they got a lot of people who call themselves Catholic (like a certain Mr Kerry) who are not truely Catholics.

To be a Catholic one must hold to all the Church Teaches. When you are pro-abortion, you are not a Catholic.
Click to expand...
I put in the search engine “abortion opinion” and the link I attached came up as number 4. Regardless of the validity, this means a whole bunch of people are looking at these opinion polls.
Seeing the polls on the number of Catholic’s that did not make abortion their priority by voting for Kerry tells me that the numbers on the link above are probably pretty close. The quote you have by your id is also one of my favorites. “All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.” Edmund Burke
Ignoring the fact that most or even 1/2 or even 1/3 of Catholics think abortion is ok will not change it. Something needs to be done.
 
A lot of people self identify as ‘Catholic’, but don’t practise. Catholicism has a strong ethnic/cultural component. I don’t think this means anything other than that.
 
I think that a mistake we can make is to ignore the fact that many Catholics believe this way. Many sieze on the fact that some Catholic politicians (self proclaimed) trivialize the importance of this issue. Many will do what it takes to become elected, even sell their soul. But the important thing here is that by selling their soul, they also are telling others that it is ok.
 
40.png
dmelosi:
I could not help but feel embarrasement as a Catholic at the link to the survey below.

religioustolerance.org/abo_poll.htm
Click to expand...
That site is pure propoganda. Their extreme bias echoes forth in their editorialization…“19% believe that they should be always illegal – apparently even to save the life of the woman.”

Can you really put THAT much trust in a website that hails Peter Singer as a great author of ethics?
religioustolerance.org/great_bk.htm

for discussion on Singer, see this thread…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=24900&highlight=peter+singer
 
In my mind what gives it some credibility is the fact that over 50% of Catholics voted for Kerry as shown in those “credible” polls.

It just appears that we are putting our heads in the sand and are not looking at a very embarrasing fact about how some Catholics feel.

I think that the underlying message is that the views have to change and it has to come from the Vatican.

If Catholics are even 50/50 on who they vote for regardless of what the candidate believes in regarding abortion…how can we as a group have any influence in this most important issue?

I want to agree and say that people are not true Catholics if abortion is not of the most importance. I myself wonder how many of these people simply need to be helped along their spiritual journey by strong church teachings on the matter.

I think we need to wake up.
 
I am not embarrased by this in the least. Sorrow yes, embarrasment no. This is just another problem we Catholics must overcome living in a protestant nation.

In the US the prevailing veiw is do whatever you want as long as it feels good. This is a very protestant opinion. It is no wonder so many “Catholics” get suckered into this RE-formed opinion.

I thank God that He established the Catholic Church to help lead His people to Him. The Church Christ established is doing its part, it is up to you and I to follow its teachings on Faith and Morals. Or you can just RE-form yourself to whatever whim or fancey you delight in.:whacky:
 
40.png
dmelosi:
Ignoring the fact that most or even 1/2 or even 1/3 of Catholics think abortion is ok will not change it. Something needs to be done.
Click to expand...
You ignored my whole reply.

Those who say that they are Catholic but support abortion are not Catholics. They claim to be Catholic but they are not. Just as those who claim to be Catholic but deny the Mass or are for priestesses. They are not truely Catholics.

Polls are useless anyways, they can be slanted in any way the poll takers wish.

Look at the exit polls for the last election. If we would have listened to them we should have just given up on Bush. But it was the poll takers who skewed the poll by weighting the exit polls at, something like, 60% women and 40% males in the poll.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
If they did that then they got a lot of people who call themselves Catholic (like a certain Mr Kerry) who are not truely Catholics.

To be a Catholic one must hold to all the Church Teaches. When you are pro-abortion, you are not a Catholic.
Click to expand...
Technically, Mr. Kerry is also a Catholic.

Unless he is excommunicated, he is a Catholic.

To be a practicing Catholic, you must adhere to all the Church teaches. This is the distinction I want to draw here.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
You ignored my whole reply.

Those who say that they are Catholic but support abortion are not Catholics. They claim to be Catholic but they are not. Just as those who claim to be Catholic but deny the Mass or are for priestesses. They are not truely Catholics.

Polls are useless anyways, they can be slanted in any way the poll takers wish.

Look at the exit polls for the last election. If we would have listened to them we should have just given up on Bush. But it was the poll takers who skewed the poll by weighting the exit polls at, something like, 60% women and 40% males in the poll.
Click to expand...
I did not mean to ignore your reply. I certainly understand how polls can be slanted.

The entire point of this post in the first place is that there are many Catholics that vote against the pro life politicians. I guess the most important poll that seems to be undisputed is that over 1/2 of all Catholics voted for Kerry. That is my concern. The point I made is that even if this poll was greatly slanted and it is more like 1/3, still way too many.

I am not ready to give up on Catholics who vote against pro life (and say that they are not Catholic) but would like to think that with a strong statement from the vatican, and help from their fellow Catholics, would move them to the next phase of their spiritual journey towards Christ and see this light.

We can either dismiss them as “not really Catholic”, and keep our head in the sand or address the problem. The USA is approxmiately 22% Catholic. If the voting polls are correct in that a little over 1/2 voted against pro life, that means that Catholics really have no say in the election over this issue.

Back to my original statement, we need to move the 11% who voted against pro life towards a pro life stance. Simply saying that the polls are biased and that this means nothing is like I said earlier, putting our heads in the sand.

Then we would have a say in getting rid of this horrible killing practice.
 
40.png
dmelosi:
I could not help but feel embarrasement as a Catholic at the link to the survey below.

religioustolerance.org/abo_poll.htm

These results are a reality and call for a much bigger effort from our church leaders to overcome.

I for one would rather see a strong statement from the church that clearly states “don’t vote for any candidate that supports pro choice. PERIOD”

The efforts to publish the Catholic Voters Guide have to be fool proof in that some in the media successfully sabatoged some of the effort by claiming that the Vatican’s version did not agree with Catholic Answer’s version. That needs to be clarified and bulletproof.
Click to expand...
you don’t have to look too far to be embarassed in these forums… :cool:
as long as you have people involved, your going to have malox moments… :eek: no faith is immune… 👍
 
I would also agree that if one truly holds that abortion is OK, he is automatically excommunicating hismelf. There are a great many who identify themselves as catholic but don’t even practice the Religion. Catholics in name only.

But I have been polled on completely different topics than this but was actually suprised when I read the results because the topics of the polls did not exactly follow the subject manner of the questions I was asked.
 
I agree with almost all of the points in this thread. But doesn’t it make sense that it may be easier to move people that already Catholic (or say they are Catholic even though they may have excommunicated themselves) move them towards the true Catholic teachings than converting a protestant to Catholicism? My entire point of this is let’s work on those that don’t pay attn to the church teaching and try to light a fire for them to learn.

The point is that there are many who voted against pro life, the argument is not to validate the authenticity of the polls but to recognize an internal problem.
 
40.png
WhiteDove:
A lot of people self identify as ‘Catholic’, but don’t practise. Catholicism has a strong ethnic/cultural component. I don’t think this means anything other than that.
Click to expand...
Agreed… I know guite a few at my work… The claim to be Catholic and they don’t pracitice it at all… Often I bite my lip to keep my mouth closed. These people are the type that say “I am Catholic, and I don’t believe … or I believe …” I have to remind them that they aren’t Catholic just because they say so. Some of the thing they believe have excommunicated them.
 
I remember a woman(probably pro-choice)admitting that when people were asked if they were pro-choice,rather than pro-abortion,a higher proportion of them said they were for choice.
The problem for a lot of people in the U.K. is that,although the Conservatives would come up with more anti-abortion politicians,
they are more likely to let a company go to the wall and put people out of work.O.K.,you cannot keep afloat a failing company
whose product is no longer in demand with continuing subsidies.
However,sometimes a company is just going through a bad patch.
I also tend to associate the British Conservatives with the failure
to grant Ireland Home Rule in the early 20th.century.There were what they called Liberal Unionists who voted against it as well.
If that Bill had been passed,we probably wouldn’t have the Northern Ireland problem.Mind you,if everyone had had the vote back in 1888,my favourite soccer team would never have existed.
They were founded to feed the poor(mainly Irish immigrants.) Some people would probably describe me as conservative when it comes to Catholic Church Teachings,but not on social issues.
The Conservative Party is not so bad as it used to be,but as more and more people got the vote,they had to change or become unelectable.They are becoming more tolerant towards the gay lobby,probably because they will catch more votes from them than from the disabled.They will have to change further,if they wish to get power again.Before WW2,there were socialists
who seemed unwilling to go to war until Stalin fell out with Hitler
and came over to our side.I try to get people to float around with their vote a bit more and vote for a candidate who is more in line
with Church Teachings,but they don’t trust the conservatives and refuse to swallow the"Reds are under the beds"kind of argument
any longer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top