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bitterhope
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That is fine. Other well respected theologians disagree with his assessment. That is why it is a “grey area” and hasn’t been pronounced either allowed or forbidden.
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ToeInTheWater
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I know that, I was making an analogy, if you think it irrelevant than feel free to ignore. My point being that slavery is an evil industry, but I can think of a scenario that involves a person buying a slave for noble motives, if I were to follow a similar moral reasoning to you, even buying a slave for the express purpose of freeing them, would be immoral.
Indeed, even a slave saving up money to buy his own freedom would be evil, because “The entire industry is evil. We can’t contribute to that in any way shape or form.”
Again if you find the analogy irrelevant than so be it, but hopefully some others reading this find it helpful.
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CrystalMayner66
Guest
Saying embryo adoption is in the same industry as laboratory embryo creation and is therefore evil sounds a lot like saying sidewalk counseling is in the same industry as abortion and is therefore evil.
I certainly don’t consider IVF and embryo adoption to be the same industry. Connected industries yes, but not the same, and not moral equivalents.
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CrystalMayner66
Guest
I think people are conflating IVF and embryo adoption.
IVF is intrinsically morally wrong. Nobody is disputing that.
What is in question is the process of embryo adoption. Obviously the IVF process is involved before in the process of creating the embryo. However the actual implantation of the embryo into the womb is not the immoral part of the process.
The embryo exists already, it has an immortal soul. The only chance it will have at life may be to be adopted, either by an infertile couple or one that simply wants to adopt another child.
As Grisez points out, this is a moral good and there is nothing in Catholic teaching that rules it out.
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CrystalMayner66
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Nice article!
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bitterhope
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For what it’s worth, when I first read this thread I was in favor of embryo adoption. It was after reading more about it and the arguments for and against it that I realized that I find it really not a good idea. If others research and come to the opposite conclusion, so be it. As of now there is no authoritative answers from the Church from what I have found.
As long as a couple goes into adoption with a true mindset of adoption and not in order to cure their infertility, it seems the USCCB is ok with it. But they remain ambiguous
As long as a couple goes into adoption with a true mindset of adoption and not in order to cure their infertility, it seems the USCCB is ok with it. But they remain ambiguous
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ToeInTheWater
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It also occurs to me one could make a case that the “entire OB-GYN industry is evil” because many OBs perform abortions, and certainly most prescribe ABCs. Does that mean a good Catholic is obligated to get no prenatal care and give birth at home because “The entire industry is evil. We can’t contribute to that in any way shape or form.”
Well?
Well?
I’d be interested to see the reasoning of the theologians that disagree with it. Perhaps you could link to a few articles.
I doubt the church will come down one way or another on it to be honest.
What’s all this about “adoption to cure infertility”. Adoption doesn’t cure infertility and really if a woman is infertile it might be impossible for her to carry a baby to term at all. In which case the couple may opt to adopt a child that is already born. However I don’t really think this is a major issue as the reason most people adopt is that they feel they can offer a home to a child that needs it rather than a selfish quest for a baby at all costs.
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CrystalMayner66
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^^This
And for those who object to adopting unborn children created by IVF, would you also oppose adopting born children created by IVF?
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CrystalMayner66
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Good objection to the premise.It also occurs to me one could make a case that the “entire OB-GYN industry is evil” because many OBs perform abortions, and certainly most prescribe ABCs. Does that mean a good Catholic is obligated to get no prenatal care and give birth at home because “The entire industry is evil. We can’t contribute to that in any way shape or form.”
Well?
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bitterhope
Guest
I’ll get lunch on the table for my kids and try to get back here soon. Afternoons tend to be my busy time.
I agree that it will be a distant future or if ever that the Church rules definitively on this. In the mean time we are left to our own conscience I guess.
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bitterhope
Guest
That’s ridiculous.It also occurs to me one could make a case that the “entire OB-GYN industry is evil” because many OBs perform abortions, and certainly most prescribe ABCs. Does that mean a good Catholic is obligated to get no prenatal care and give birth at home because “The entire industry is evil. We can’t contribute to that in any way shape or form.”
Well?
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bitterhope
Guest
The USCCB speaks of embryo adoption for adoption sake and embryo adoption as a cure for infertility. Also, some couples that have adopted embryos don’t consider themselves as adoptive parents and speak of it as curing their infertility.
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ToeInTheWater
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Please feel free to ignore my posts if you find them ridiculous. I do not reply to every poster on a topic and I don’t expect everyone to reply to all of my posts. I’d prefer being ignored to being ridiculed.
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JanetF
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No, it means a good catholic should not take advantage of all the services provided by the OB-Gyn, or if possible go to an OB-GYN whose practice falls within catholic teaching. They are out there, you have to do the research though.
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1ke
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ToeInTheWater
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Thanks for actually addressing my question. However it seems that a Catholic who pays for OB care from a physician who also performs abortions is providing the practice with funds that can be used to purchase equipment used for abortions. Indeed, many of the equipment and techniques used to remove already-deceased babies from the womb are same as those used for abortion.No, it means a good catholic should not take advantage of all the services provided by the OB-Gyn, or if possible go to an OB-GYN whose practice falls within catholic teaching. They are out there, you have to do the research though.
Most Catholics would find it scandalous to go to Planned Parenthood even for non abortion related services, but it seems a private OB-GYN is not held to the same standards.
And if the answer is to find a provider who DOES adhere to Catholic teaching. Then my question would then be, how far is a Catholic obligated to go, to find such a provider? Travel hundreds of miles from home? Or, what if such a provider is not covered by insurance, is a Catholic obligated to pay out of pocket?
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bitterhope
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Here is one link from a theologian opposed to embryo adoption. There are several others but I don’t have time to round them up at the moment. If I get time this evening I will post more links.
austriacolab.com/AustriacoLab/Publications_files/AUSTRIACO-EmbryoAdoption.pdf
And this is a link about the theologian, Rev. Nicanor Austriaco.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicanor_Austriaco
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