Embryo Adoption

[pensmama87]

Thanks for actually addressing my question. However it seems that a Catholic who pays for OB care from a physician who also performs abortions is providing the practice with funds that can be used to purchase equipment used for abortions. Indeed, many of the equipment and techniques used to remove already-deceased babies from the womb are same as those used for abortion.

Most Catholics would find it scandalous to go to Planned Parenthood even for non abortion related services, but it seems a private OB-GYN is not held to the same standards.

And if the answer is to find a provider who DOES adhere to Catholic teaching. Then my question would then be, how far is a Catholic obligated to go, to find such a provider? Travel hundreds of miles from home? Or, what if such a provider is not covered by insurance, is a Catholic obligated to pay out of pocket?

Most OBs do NOT provide abortions, though they might offer referrals for one.

This may be a more common scenario in rural areas, but in my metro area there are hundreds of OBs, and only two abortionists.

 

[JanetF]

Most OBs do NOT provide abortions, though they might offer referrals for one.

This may be a more common scenario in rural areas, but in my metro area there are hundreds of OBs, and only two abortionists.

Similar in my area as well.

 

[JanetF]

Thanks for actually addressing my question. However it seems that a Catholic who pays for OB care from a physician who also performs abortions is providing the practice with funds that can be used to purchase equipment used for abortions. Indeed, many of the equipment and techniques used to remove already-deceased babies from the womb are same as those used for abortion.

Most Catholics would find it scandalous to go to Planned Parenthood even for non abortion related services, but it seems a private OB-GYN is not held to the same standards.

And if the answer is to find a provider who DOES adhere to Catholic teaching. Then my question would then be, how far is a Catholic obligated to go, to find such a provider? Travel hundreds of miles from home? Or, what if such a provider is not covered by insurance, is a Catholic obligated to pay out of pocket?

With respect to the equipment used in an OB office. Yes it’s the same equipment. I had a D&C after miscarrying my first pregnancy. So I had an spontaneous abortion in medical terms. The D&C was performed to prevent possible infection if all the fetal material did not pass naturally in a timely manner. My OB doesn’t perform abortions on live fetuses.

Planned Parenthood doesn’t provide any non-abortion related services that cannot be obtained elsewhere, so yes, going to a Planned Parenthood for any service would be scandalous.

I wouldn’t think that a Catholic would be obligated to do anything more than reasonable with respect to finding a provider that is suitable. What can they afford, how far can they reasonably travel, etc. I don’t believe undo pressure is necessary. I’ve worked in the medical field in a metropolitan area for decades, most OB’s don’t provide elective abortions, but all of them treat cases like mine where the baby is already lost. I would estimate that 98% of them refer elective abortions to PP or they refer the patient to Pregnancy Crisis Centers for their resources.

 

[CrystalMayner66]

With respect to the equipment used in an OB office. Yes it’s the same equipment. I had a D&C after miscarrying my first pregnancy. So I had an spontaneous abortion in medical terms. The D&C was performed to prevent possible infection if all the fetal material did not pass naturally in a timely manner. My OB doesn’t perform abortions on live fetuses.

Planned Parenthood doesn’t provide any non-abortion related services that cannot be obtained elsewhere, so yes, going to a Planned Parenthood for any service would be scandalous.

I wouldn’t think that a Catholic would be obligated to do anything more than reasonable with respect to finding a provider that is suitable. What can they afford, how far can they reasonably travel, etc. I don’t believe undo pressure is necessary. I’ve worked in the medical field in a metropolitan area for decades, most OB’s don’t provide elective abortions, but all of them treat cases like mine where the baby is already lost. I would estimate that 98% of them refer elective abortions to PP or they refer the patient to Pregnancy Crisis Centers for their resources.

So sorry about your miscarriage. I hope you made it through safely.

I would agree with you about what obligations a Catholic has in choosing an OB/GYN.

 

[AdamP88]

Well, yes, actually it is.

Read Dignitas Personae in its entirety.

I thought it was the conception of the child outside of the marital act that was the immoral part?

 

[CrystalMayner66]

I thought it was the conception of the child outside of the marital act that was the immoral part?

It is, in my view. 1ke disagrees.

You may be interested in going back to read posts 26, 30, 31 and 35 where I have discussed this with 1ke already.

 

[bitterhope]

Another Catholic priest’s opinion on what we should do with frozen embryos.

catholiceducation.org/en/science/ethical-issues/what-should-we-do-with-the-frozen-embryos.html

Also, a large percentage of embryos either die during the thawing process or through miscarriage. Embryo adoption isn’t saving babies in many cases and is actually a direct cause of their death.

 

[CrystalMayner66]

Also, a large percentage of embryos either die during the thawing process or through miscarriage. Embryo adoption isn’t saving babies in many cases and is actually a direct cause of their death.

In these cases, genetic deformities or being thawed are often the direct causes of death, not the adoption. The embryo being placed into a woman’s womb is not a cause of death that I have ever heard of.

Adoption gives them a chance at life–thawing them without adoption gives them no chance.

 

[bitterhope]

25-50% do not survive thawing. The ones that do, only 35% survive to be born. This is according to the Embryo Adoption Awareness Center. Those are not very good odds at all. It is more humane and dignified for them to be adopted (or not) and kept frozen until they either die a natural death or until such time other more successful methods are available.

embryoadoption.org/faqs/

This, combined with the fact that a woman is purposely having a child as a single mom, or purposely having a child she does not intend to keep, or a woman purposely having another man’s (who is not her husband) child make it questionable morally anyway. And as a woman, I feel like we are worth more than just being an incubator.

 

[CrystalMayner66]

25-50% do not survive thawing. The ones that do, only 35% survive to be born. This is according to the Embryo Adoption Awareness Center. Those are not very good odds at all. It is more humane and dignified for them to be adopted (or not) and kept frozen until they either die a natural death or until such time other more successful methods are available.

embryoadoption.org/faqs/

This, combined with the fact that a woman is purposely having a child as a single mom, or purposely having a child she does not intend to keep, or a woman purposely having another man’s (who is not her husband) child make it questionable morally anyway. And as a woman, I feel like we are worth more than just being an incubator.

I simply disagree that letting them die is better.

And as a woman, I agree, women are far more than incubators and mothers, yet that does not make pregnancy a demeaning ordeal that is degrading to our worth. We are not reduced down to incubators, we are nurturers…and so much more! Choosing to give our very bodies to save another’s life is a noble sacrifice that adds to our dignity rather than detracting from it.

Do you think children born and living their lives today because they were adopted as embryos would agree letting embryos just die is more humane?

 

[CrystalMayner66]

Those are not very good odds at all.

The Embryo Adoption Awareness Center also explains that when achieving pregnancy naturally the average success rate is only 25%, to put things in perspective.

 

[bitterhope]

The Embryo Adoption Awareness Center also explains that when achieving pregnancy naturally the average success rate is only 25%, to put things in perspective.

Well yes, if you take into account that they aren’t measuring the same thing there. A fertile couple has about a 25% chance of conceiving each month. If conception occurs and an embryo begins to grow (as it does with the frozen embryos), miscarriage occurs approx 25% of the time. That means 75% of natural pregnancies result in a live birth. Natural pregnancies aren’t dealing with premade embryos as embryo adoption pregnancies are.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

The USCCB speaks of embryo adoption for adoption sake and embryo adoption as a cure for infertility. Also, some couples that have adopted embryos don’t consider themselves as adoptive parents and speak of it as curing their infertility.

Thinking about this: Technically, you would know that the child is adopted and is not biologically yours. But practically speaking, it would be next to impossible to view a child as adopted when you have carried him in your womb and given birth to him. Likewise, it would be almost as difficult to think of yourself as infertile after you have been pregnant and given birth.

I guess I am still not entirely understanding why the morality or lack thereof of embryo adoption hinges on the subjective criterion of whether the parents always think of their child as adopted.

 

[bitterhope]

I understand and I am guessing that is part of the reason the church hasn’t ruled definitively on this. But I did not come up with those terms. That can straight from documents put forth by the Church and from the USCCB.

When I first read about this on this thread I was wondering why anyone would ever be opposed to saving these embryos, so I read a lot of different viewpoints (mostly on the National Catholic Bioethics Center website), and now I see why many believe eventually it will be ruled against. The moral questions just surrounding the implantation of an embryo into the womb, the surrounding moral questions of family structure, the science behind why implanting embryos so often fails, and theological reasons against separating babies from sex, I now understand why many of the early posters were opposed.

It also bothers me that children’s lives are being manipulated by adults. Then those same adults will be very unlikely to share with the children that they are indeed adopted. I understand why the parents would no longer view themselves as adoptive parents and infertile, but that is part of what the Church cautions against.

It is considered a grey area so people can agree or disagree and still be in good standing with the Church. Truthfully I was just surprised that I changed my mind on the subject and would highly encourage anyone considering embryo adoption to fully explore both sides with an open mind while praying to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Look not only st the moral dilemmas but also the science involved. The science kind of was the clincher for me. There are reasons why embryos are so often rejected by the woman’s body

 

[JanetF]

So sorry about your miscarriage. I hope you made it through safely.

I would agree with you about what obligations a Catholic has in choosing an OB/GYN.

Thanks, I went on a few months later to give birth to a daughter who just finished her freshman year of college. All is Good!