embryo adoption

[seekerz]

I doubt that embryo adoption would make a “market” with enough demand to perpetuate the production of “extra” embryos in the IVF process. First of all, how many people are willing to adopt born children, let alone go through the medical procedures necessary for embryo adoption?

I disagree. There are thousands of infertile couples who would go to any length to have a child whether by IVF, adoption or surrogacy.The demand for adopted kids is highest the younger they are, so to me there already exists a perfect market. Add to that the potential for exchange of large amounts of cash and the possibility of choosing the embryos based on the characteristics of their parents or siblings and we have a virtual baby mall.

Also important to consider is that the reason these embryos are created has to do with the odds of success of the particular procedure being used so in a sense, at present, they’re not usually deliberately created to sit in frozen suspension but if a market is created that could change.

Another concern for me is that these children (all siblings) are likely going to be raised as strangers to each other, so we have the issue of increased potential for incestuous relationships in their adult life with it’s attendant moral and biological implications.

And we haven’t even talked about the potential for birth defects/abnormalities etc because of the way they were created and preserved.

To me it’s clear that life created by God must be allowed it’s natural course, but life created by man? I’m not so sure…

 

[Listener]

I agree with the Church when it says that in-vitro fertilization is wrong. However, if the Church decides that adopting an embryo is wrong, I think it would be a contradiction.

You can’t have it both ways. The fertilized egg is either a human being, or it is not.

If a woman has another man’s sperm implanted in her, this seems like a form of adultery to me. If the fertilized egg is a human being, then it is a human being and not some guy’s sperm.

If a woman uses another man’s sperm, the baby would be the woman’s biological child, but not the man’s. This could cause her husband to resent the child. If she adopts an embryo, it is the biological child of neither of them. The woman would probably feel closer to the child because she gave birth to it in the normal way.

I think that rescuing an embryo would just be a very early form of adoption. You would be giving a homeless human a place to live.

I don’t see anything immoral about it, as long as the husband and wife both agree that this should be done.

How is this so different than the wet nurses that people used to have for their babies before the days of baby formula?

 

[seekerz]

God is supreme over life so the only relevant question in my mind would be whether it is His will for artificially created life to be sustained in this way.

 

[StCsDavid]

How could saving a life be evil or sinful especially if the Vatican already recognizes the life exists.

Let’s say you and four other people are in a lifeboat. There’s only enough food and water to feed two of you. In order to save two, you kill three and toss them overboard. Thus you’ve saved two lives, but at what expense? How do you choose who you will kill and who you will save? A similar moral dilemma exists with embryo adoption. How do we choose which ones live and which ones get tossed overboard? What criteria do we allow for such adoptions? If an embryo has a high propensity for Downs Syndrome do we toss that one out? What if the embryo is African American and the couple wants a white baby…too bad for the black embryo…he stays frozen in time. There are a ton of other moral issues surrounding this practice that need to be well considered.

 

[tommathew60]

In Vitro Fertilization and Conception continue in many centers. The unutilized embryos are for most part discarded.
It would be desirable that all unused embryoyos undergo
available analysis for birth defects and potential inherited
diseases, before married infertile couples are allowed
**to adopt them and use for conception. **
Still it will be a wishful thinking that all embroys will be
adopted and even genetically abnormal embryos will or
should be allowed to grow into full term Babies. I do not think that any couple will knowingly aacept a baby with downsyndrom ,physical or mental deformities.
In the practical world, the rules of "survival of the fittest"
are deliberately folloed. Tommathew T.Tomas,M.D.

 

[seekerz]

In Vitro Fertilization and Conception continue in many centers. The unutilized embryos are for most part discarded.
It would be desirable that all unused embryoyos undergo
available analysis for birth defects and potential inherited
diseases, before married infertile couples are allowed
**to adopt them and use for conception. **
Still it will be a wishful thinking that all embroys will be
adopted and even genetically abnormal embryos will or
should be allowed to grow into full term Babies. I do not think that any couple will knowingly aacept a baby with downsyndrom ,physical or mental deformities.
In the practical world, the rules of "survival of the fittest"
are deliberately folloed. Tommathew T.Tomas,M.D.

I agree with you that this could inadvertently turn into a sort of selection of the fittest process and that in itself would be an offense against the dignity of life. For example, how would we choose which of the hundreds or thousands of embryos to adopt first or not at all? Age? Parental characteristics? Genetics? What?

 

[tommathew60]

".I believe that no reasonable person should stand in the way of improving the quality of a human being. After an egg is fertilized
it starts dividing in to several cells. Now we have the opprtunity to take few of these cells to check for genetic defects. Implant only
if the embroy is not defective. Implanting a defective embryodeliberately in to the womb is a great disservice to the child being born later.
I believe with the gift of soul implanted into humanoid animal, the
evolution as such came to a stop. Now the evolution of the
enlighted intelligence has started.God trust the man and gave him
the driver license.We can use our intelligence to further improve
ourselves, eradicate poverty and disease and regain the paradise we lost.We can also use our intelligence to poison ourselves and
our posterity, destroy or disable our fellow human beings.The
intelligence should help us with God’s guidance ,which way we
should travel. There may be perils on the way. We may be tempted to distrust others and start calling them our enemies.If
God trust us, why don’t we trust other human beings? I always
wonder why prayers are offered in our church only for “our
troops abroad”. What about the thousands of Iraqui children,
mutilated and burned out with our bombs, the collateral damage
we inflicted upon the innocents? If we can prevent Down syndrom
babies being born, right from outset,rather than giving very little care once they are born, I believe that it is intelligence, working as God has intended.
I have no problem to accept evolution to some extent. If the evolutionists consider that only phsical evolution is the dynamic
force for eternity, I have one question:
All scientists agree that the earth was not hospitable for life in
the beginning. It was more violent and hostile for life. Once it
started to become more and more supportive for life, different
species started to appear. At this time of earth’s history, it may be most supportive of all kinds of species. Why then do we see the paradoxical exstinction of species and evolution of new forms of species. The dymnamic has changed from physical evolution to
intellectual evolution once homo sapiens appeared on the face of earth.Even before the appearance of homo sapiens, many species came to exstintion.So we cannot be blamed for the diasappearence of all the species that vanished from the face of earth.Their disappearance probably was a neccessary factor
of "natual selection

–​

Humanity can not be subjected to artificial restrictions. We author our own destiny. Extreme poverty is a curse while absolute luxury a sin, a truth which can not be disputed. Let’s responsibly write a new destiny of the world, maintaining the high standards of ethics, action and peace to attain our ultimate global goal- bliss, and only bliss.
Tommathew T.Thomas,M.D.
I believe that no reasonable person should stand in the way of improving the quality of a human being. After an egg is fertilized
it starts dividing in to several cells. Now we have the opportunity to take few of these cells to check for genetic defects. Implant only
if the embryo is not defective. Implanting a defective embryo deliberately in to the womb is a great disservice to the child being born later.
I believe with the gift of soul implanted into humanoid animal, the
evolution as such came to a stop. Now the evolution of the
enlightened intelligence has started.God trust the man and gave him
the driver license.We can use our intelligence to further improve
ourselves, eradicate poverty and disease and regain the paradise we lost.We can also use our intelligence to poison ourselves and
our posterity, destroy or disable our fellow human beings.The
intelligence should help us with God’s guidance ,which way we
should travel. There may be perils on the way. We may be tempted to distrust others and start calling them our enemies.If
God trust us, why don’t we trust other human beings? I always
wonder why prayers are offered in our church only for “our
troops abroad”. What about the thousands of Iraqui children,
mutilated and burned out with our bombs, the collateral damage
we inflicted upon the innocents? If we can prevent Down syndrom
babies being born, right from outset,rather than giving very little care once they are born, I believe that it is intelligence, working as God has intended.
I have no problem to accept evolution to some extent. If the evolutionists consider that only physical evolution is the dynamic
force for eternity, I have one question:
All scientists agree that the earth was not hospitable for life in
the beginning. It was more violent and hostile for life. Once it
started to become more and more supportive for life, different
species started to appear. At this time of earth’s history, it may be most supportive of all kinds of species. Why then do we see the paradoxical extinction of species and evolution of new forms of species. The dynamic has changed from physical evolution to
intellectual evolution once homo sapient appeared on the face of earth.Even before the appearance of homo sapient, many species came to extintion.So we cannot be blamed for the disappearance of all the species that vanished from the face of earth.Their disappearance probably was a necessary factor
of "natural selection

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

To me it’s clear that life created by God must be allowed it’s natural course, but life created by man? I’m not so sure…

God creates all life, regardless of the intentions of man to take creation away from God. These frozen embryos are human beings, regardless on how they were created. Perhaps, God allows these IVF procedures to work at all is because of Mercy. He can allow good to come from our evil actions.

I cannot see the Church saying that embryo adoption will be wrong. These embryos exist, and must have the chance to continue their lives. The sin of scientists, doctors, and those involved with IVF, shouldn’t penalize the victims, the frozen embryos. They did not ask to be conceived this way, they are innocent, they should be allowed to continue their lives.

 

[hasikelee]

As a physician and practicing catholic I believe that the arguments
that human life starts at conception is rather frivolous.
The human embryo remains an embryonic stem cell as long
as it does not take the next step: Nidation = transplant into
a well prepared ( suited) Uterus. Just like any other human cells in a human body it is alive and retains the possibility to transform itself into a full human fetus or any human tissue under proper guidance from instructional hormons and other controlling enzymatic molecules.
If any human cell is restored back to its embryonic status, it has
no special moral charecteristics,making it different from an embryonic stem cell.
tommathew60@gmail.com

Interestingly, this concept, which appears to have been adopted as scientific theory and is taught to many medical personnel, was a marketing technique created to avoid outrage against the newer COCs. The person who started it was not a physician and it has no medical bearing whatsoever on the humanity of the embryo.

As a physician, you must know that from the moment of conception, the living organism maintains DNA separate from the male and female, and continues a genetic pathway entirely separate from the female’s body.

Therefore, whether the human embryo manages to sucessfully plant into the uterus or not is simply a question of living or dying, not whether the living organism is human or non-human.

Good try on ignoring that point, though.

 

[hasikelee]

Now, for the original post…

I wonder, if America bans all IVF and embryonic cloning, if we could then choose to adopt embryos?

I imagine a federal program that requires the embryos to be donated. Perhaps there are doctors and medical professionals interested in volunteering.

Quite an unrealistic goal, but would this resolve the moral issues surrouing it?

 

[tommathew60]

formatting »
Dear Mary, I believe you are confusing the term fertilization with
conception.The ferilized egg is alive as any other cell in our body.
Conception takes place when a woman’s woumb “conceves” the
fertilized egg. A human egg fertilized with human sperm is a
human embryo. It is not yet a baby (fetus).Once conception starts
it starts the “life of a human fetus”. All forms of life - plant-animal-human - are destruction of life. Some lives are meant to die before
their ultimate goal of fruition. All the millions of sperms (all of them
alive) do not end up to fertilize eggs. All the 250 or more of the eggs also alive) within the ovaries of a female do not get fertilized.
Still all of them have a function in the divine plan.Even many of the conceived embryos are rejected by the uterus once it is not adequately prepared to continue with fetal development. Similarly
defective embryos,though conceived ,are most of the time rejected
by uterus. Such killings occur naturally within the female body.
No body has yet understood how the uterus “understands”
whether the conceived embryo is deffective or not. Amazing indeed !!

–​

Humanity can not be subjected to artificial restrictions. We author our own destiny. Extreme poverty is a curse while absolute luxury a sin, a truth which can not be disputed. Let’s responsibly write a new destiny of the world, maintaining the high standards of ethics, action and peace to attain our ultimate global goal- bliss, and only bliss.
Tommathew T.Thomas,M.D.
Dear Mary, I believe you are confusing the term fertilization with
conception.The fertilized egg is alive as any other cell in our body.
Conception takes place when a woman’s womb “conceives” the
fertilized egg. A human egg fertilized with human sperm is a
human embryo. It is not yet a baby (fetus).Once conception starts
it starts the “life of a human fetus”. All forms of life - plant-animal-human - are destruction of life. Some lives are meant to die before
their ultimate goal of fruition. All the millions of sperms (all of them
alive) do not end up to fertilize eggs. All the 250 or more of the eggs also alive) within the ovaries of a female do not get fertilized.
Still all of them have a function in the divine plan.Even many of the conceived embryos are rejected by the uterus once it is not adequately prepared to continue with fetal development. Similarly
defective embryos,though conceived ,are most of the time rejected
by uterus. Such killings occur naturally within the female body.
No body has yet understood how the uterus “understands”
whether the conceived embryo is defective or not. Amazing indeed !!

–​

Humanity can not be subjected to artificial restrictions. We author our own destiny. Extreme poverty is a curse while absolute luxury a sin, a truth which can not be disputed. Let’s responsibly write a new destiny of the world, maintaining the high standards of ethics, action and peace to attain our ultimate global goal- bliss, and only bliss.
Tommathew T.Thomas,M.D.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

formatting »
Dear Mary, I believe you are confusing the term fertilization with
conception.The ferilized egg is alive as any other cell in our body.
Conception takes place when a woman’s woumb “conceves” the
fertilized egg. A human egg fertilized with human sperm is a
human embryo. It is not yet a baby (fetus).Once conception starts
it starts the “life of a human fetus”. All forms of life - plant-animal-human - are destruction of life. Some lives are meant to die before
their ultimate goal of fruition. All the millions of sperms (all of them
alive) do not end up to fertilize eggs. All the 250 or more of the eggs also alive) within the ovaries of a female do not get fertilized.
Still all of them have a function in the divine plan.Even many of the conceived embryos are rejected by the uterus once it is not adequately prepared to continue with fetal development. Similarly
defective embryos,though conceived ,are most of the time rejected
by uterus. Such killings occur naturally within the female body.
No body has yet understood how the uterus “understands”
whether the conceived embryo is deffective or not. Amazing indeed !!

I guess you were addressing me. I am not confusing conception and fertilization. They are the same. And of course all the cells in my body are alive, but my skin cells, my cardiac cells and all the other cells are part of my body. A human embryo, irrespective of location, is a unique, separate being with its own genetic code. I did not start off when I implanted in my mother’s womb, I started off when the egg and sperm fused. So did everyone else.

Regarding miscarriage, most often the embryo dies prior to the uterus expelling the embryo, It isn’t the uterus that decides, it that the embryo that ceases to grow and develop.

I just suffered a miscarriage, there wasn’t any evidence of the embryo implanting, but plenty of evidence that the pregnancy existed 4 at home pregnancy tests, 1 office pregnancy test, and 2 lab blood tests. I was pregnant—there was a baby. If there was no life, how could I be pregnant?

 

[agapewolf]

tommatthew60,

You have bought into the lie that the medical journals have pushed. The med journals changed the definition of conception. They define conception as implantation, as you just stated.

Catholics define conception as fertilization. This is prior to implantation. Whether the implantation takes hold or not does not determine the existence of a soul. Perhaps instead of saying “life begins at conception” we should say “life begins at fertilization” to be clear, but constantly changing for semantics sake would be even more confusing.

Whether the right terms are used or not, the fact remains the same. At fertilization is when a new soul exists, and a new guardian angel is present.

This is why embryonic stem cell research is so wrong and dangerous.

 

[mmm1]

I guess you were addressing me. I am not confusing conception and fertilization. They are the same. And of course all the cells in my body are alive, but my skin cells, my cardiac cells and all the other cells are part of my body. A human embryo, irrespective of location, is a unique, separate being with its own genetic code. I did not start off when I implanted in my mother’s womb, I started off when the egg and sperm fused. So did everyone else.

Regarding miscarriage, most often the embryo dies prior to the uterus expelling the embryo, It isn’t the uterus that decides, it that the embryo that ceases to grow and develop.

I just suffered a miscarriage, there wasn’t any evidence of the embryo implanting, but plenty of evidence that the pregnancy existed 4 at home pregnancy tests, 1 office pregnancy test, and 2 lab blood tests. I was pregnant—there was a baby. If there was no life, how could I be pregnant?

I’m so sorry for your loss, Mary Gail 36. I had a miscarriage years ago & will say a prayer to help you heal…

 

[mmm1]

formatting »
Dear Mary, I believe you are confusing the term fertilization with
conception.The ferilized egg is alive as any other cell in our body.
Conception takes place when a woman’s woumb “conceves” the
fertilized egg. A human egg fertilized with human sperm is a
human embryo. It is not yet a baby (fetus).Once conception starts
it starts the “life of a human fetus”. All forms of life - plant-animal-human - are destruction of life. Some lives are meant to die before
their ultimate goal of fruition. All the millions of sperms (all of them
alive) do not end up to fertilize eggs. All the 250 or more of the eggs also alive) within the ovaries of a female do not get fertilized.
Still all of them have a function in the divine plan.Even many of the conceived embryos are rejected by the uterus once it is not adequately prepared to continue with fetal development. Similarly
defective embryos,though conceived ,are most of the time rejected
by uterus. Such killings occur naturally within the female body.
No body has yet understood how the uterus “understands”
whether the conceived embryo is deffective or not. Amazing indeed !!

–​

Humanity can not be subjected to artificial restrictions. We author our own destiny. Extreme poverty is a curse while absolute luxury a sin, a truth which can not be disputed. Let’s responsibly write a new destiny of the world, maintaining the high standards of ethics, action and peace to attain our ultimate global goal- bliss, and only bliss.
Tommathew T.Thomas,M.D.
Dear Mary, I believe you are confusing the term fertilization with
conception.The fertilized egg is alive as any other cell in our body.
Conception takes place when a woman’s womb “conceives” the
fertilized egg. A human egg fertilized with human sperm is a
human embryo. It is not yet a baby (fetus).Once conception starts
it starts the “life of a human fetus”. All forms of life - plant-animal-human - are destruction of life. Some lives are meant to die before
their ultimate goal of fruition. All the millions of sperms (all of them
alive) do not end up to fertilize eggs. All the 250 or more of the eggs also alive) within the ovaries of a female do not get fertilized.
Still all of them have a function in the divine plan.Even many of the conceived embryos are rejected by the uterus once it is not adequately prepared to continue with fetal development. Similarly
defective embryos,though conceived ,are most of the time rejected
by uterus. Such killings occur naturally within the female body.
No body has yet understood how the uterus “understands”
whether the conceived embryo is defective or not. Amazing indeed !!

–​

Humanity can not be subjected to artificial restrictions. We author our own destiny. Extreme poverty is a curse while absolute luxury a sin, a truth which can not be disputed. Let’s responsibly write a new destiny of the world, maintaining the high standards of ethics, action and peace to attain our ultimate global goal- bliss, and only bliss.
Tommathew T.Thomas,M.D.

Hi, Dr. tommathew60. I wholeheartedly agree with agapewolf, Mary Gail 36 & hasikelee. Embryonic stem cell research & cloning advocates can invent new words & try to change facts & terminology all they want. They have also tried to claim that the medical definition of pregnancy is now only at the time of implantation. Not all researchers & physicians have bought into this deception.

Any good embryology text will tell you that fertilization is the point when you have 2 gametes joining to form a unique being with a diploid complement of 46 chromosomes. The embryo is the same 10 minutes before implantation as it is 10 minutes after. The only thing that has changed is Location, Location, Location.

Please stop comparing a human embryo to skin cells & other living cells. They are clearly different.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I’m so sorry for your loss, Mary Gail 36. I had a miscarriage years ago & will say a prayer to help you heal…

Thank you.