Embryo life - medical or statistical help needed?

[gam197]

I am not sure if anyone has heard of this. I need to be able to refute this.

According to these people, women normally shrug off fertilized embryos every month so what different does it make if eggs are not implanted say be using a pill. I know this sounds like a strange argument but I have heard it so many times.

Here is the article that they show me and the chart. Anyone familiar with this???" Conception to ongoing pregnancy; the black box of pregnancy loss"

miscarriage.about.com/od/pregnancyafterloss/f/70percent.htm

 

[thewanderer]

I am not sure if anyone has heard of this. I need to be able to refute this.

According to these people, women normally shrug off fertilized embryos every month so what different does it make if eggs are not implanted say be using a pill. I know this sounds like a strange argument but I have heard it so many times.

Here is the article that they show me and the chart. Anyone familiar with this???" Conception to ongoing pregnancy; the black box of pregnancy loss"

miscarriage.about.com/od/pregnancyafterloss/f/70percent.htm

Are you trying to disprove that many such miscarriages occur? Or just that this statistic is not a good reason for using the pill?

I certainly can’t say anything to the former, but, with respect to whether or not this allows couples to use the pill, of course it doesn’t. There is a huge difference between intentionally destroying the chances of survival of an embryo and the fact that many embryos don’t make it to birth. It sounds to me like someone is arguing that just because there’s a good chance that the pill won’t have an effect its ok to use it… in other words, its ok to use it because its not going to make a difference anyway. This implies that they think it would be a bad thing to use the pill to prevent implantation. If this is the case, they ought to accept it and just not use it. If they do not have a problem with preventing implantation, they should stop using language which implies that they do.

 

[Nate13]

Any number you see is an estimate and probably a worthless one. A lot of people will state (without citing) that 50% of conceptions do not implant normally. This is completely bogus and I have yet to find a study to back this.

The link you posted cites a study done in 1988 that may be somewhat accurate from the sound of it claiming that 22% of all conceptions naturally fail to implant. I think this stat would certainly vary by the age and health of a woman though so I’m not sure how much it is worth either. Its also never a good idea to base an opinion on one study. If the study cannot be repeated multiple times with the same results its baseless as far as making a claim.

The argument your probably getting though is that tons of babies die in the womb already of natural causes, so how can you argue that its wrong to kill them?

If that argument worked then I could say 100% of us are going to die eventually so why can’t I just kill you?

 

[Newbie2]

 

[gam197]

Originally posted by** the wanderer**
in other words, its ok to use it because its not going to make a difference

originallly posted by** Nate13**
The argument your probably getting though is that tons of babies die in the womb already of natural causes, so how can you argue that its wrong to kill them?

This is the argument. When I try to say that the pill prevents implantation at times - that this is a bad thing then they response that nature does it all the time.

They say that miscarriage is common. This report seems to say that but I really wonder how accurate it is and believe it to be false except I know nothing on this subject matter so I can’t make a case against it - just to say the article doesn’t seem accurate. I want to prove that these high numbers are false.

I will use the line about death but know this study really needs to be addressed.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Orogeny]

If that argument worked then I could say 100% of us are going to die eventually so why can’t I just kill you?

Yep, that is the answer right there. I am always surprised at how little thought some people put into their arguments.

Peace

Tim

 

[Ron_Conte]

I think that the frequency of this type of very early miscarriage is being exaggerated. But in any case, no matter how frequent any type of accidental death may be, it does not justify the intentional choice to directly kill an innocent human being – at any age or stage in development.

To use an analogy, even if car accidents are very common, it does not justify the deliberate choice to run someone over with your car.

 

[Leegal]

I am not sure if anyone has heard of this. I need to be able to refute this.

According to these people, women normally shrug off fertilized embryos every month so what different does it make if eggs are not implanted say be using a pill. I know this sounds like a strange argument but I have heard it so many times.

Here is the article that they show me and the chart. Anyone familiar with this???" Conception to ongoing pregnancy; the black box of pregnancy loss"

miscarriage.about.com/od/pregnancyafterloss/f/70percent.htm

Normally women “shrug off” unfertilized eggs. Miscarriage may occur in 50% of cases of those who don’t even know they are pregnant. Of the ones who KNOW they are pregnant, that number is about 15 to 20% of fertilized embryos.

When a fertilized embryo is “lost” it’s a miscarriage meaning that the body has determined there is a problem – it’s naturally occuring. The miscarriage is spontaneous, not by any action taken by the woman. A spontaneous miscarriage can occur for any number of reasons, which can include poor health, hormonal problems that naturally occur, an auto-immune problem, severe defect of the fetus, diabetes in the mother, and many occur due to the age of the woman at the time of conception.

So, in most cases the woman does not even know she’s pregnant because the miscarriage occurs soon after conception and spontaneously. For those who know they are pregnant, the miscarriage is caused by other medical reasons in the mother or in the fetus.

A morning after pill, or Plan B, which provides the same result, is an intentional and deliberate act to cause a miscarriage – a/k/a spontaneous abortion. And it’s wrong if used for that purpose.

 

[gam197]

originally posted** by Leegal**
Normally women “shrug off” unfertilized eggs. Miscarriage may occur in 50% of cases of those who don’t even know they are pregnant. Of the ones who KNOW they are pregnant, that number is about 15 to 20% of fertilized embryos.

I think woman normally shrug off unfertilized eggs. I wonder about this study.

Questions are: How do they know how many are fertilized at such an early stage in development. Is it even possible to say that miscarriage occurs in 50% of woman. and that only 15 to 20% know they even pregnant. Do we have the technology to accurate state the numbers? It seems this study involves IVF not normal pregnant woman so it seems incorrect?