Emergency Baptisms

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Polycarp1

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As a first responder during the last year I have had the opportunity to baptise 2 recently deceased persons. One was a suicide and the other died during the commission of a robbery. If a Catholic lay person baptises someone in this situation is there a need or protocol to follow in informing the Church about it?
 
I don’t think you’re allowed to baptize the dead. It seems to have been prohibited at the Council of Carthage.
 
Polycarp1 said:
As a first responder during the last year I have had the opportunity to baptise 2 recently deceased persons. One was a suicide and the other died during the commission of a robbery. If a Catholic lay person baptises someone in this situation is there a need or protocol to follow in informing the Church about it?
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If they were already dead then you didn’t actually baptize them since baptism of the dead is not valid in any Christian religion that I’m aware of, including Catholicism. So nothing to report to anyone I would presume.
 
Polycarp1 said:
As a first responder during the last year I have had the opportunity to baptise 2 recently deceased persons. One was a suicide and the other died during the commission of a robbery. If a Catholic lay person baptises someone in this situation is there a need or protocol to follow in informing the Church about it?
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You should cease doing such baptisms until you receive instructions from your pastor on proper protocols for adults and children. Also, regarding timing of baptism, as it is not possible nor should you baptize the dead. The church has guidelines regarding this.

Can. 865 §1. For an adult to be baptized, the person must have manifested the intention to receive baptism, have been instructed sufficiently about the truths of the faith and Christian obligations, and have been tested in the Christian life through the catechumenate. The adult is also to be urged to have sorrow for personal sins.

§2. An adult in danger of death can be baptized if, having some knowledge of the principal truths of the faith, the person has manifested in any way at all the intention to receive baptism and promises to observe the commandments of the Christian religion.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

878 If the baptism was not administered by the pastor or in his presence, the minister of baptism, whoever it is, must inform the pastor of the parish in which it was administered of the conferral of the baptism, so that he records the baptism according to the norm of ⇒ can. 877, §1.
 
1ke said:
You should cease doing such baptisms until you receive instructions from your pastor on proper protocols for adults and children. Also, regarding timing of baptism, as it is not possible nor should you baptize the dead. The church has guidelines regarding this.

Can. 865 §1. For an adult to be baptized, the person must have manifested the intention to receive baptism, have been instructed sufficiently about the truths of the faith and Christian obligations, and have been tested in the Christian life through the catechumenate. The adult is also to be urged to have sorrow for personal sins.

§2. An adult in danger of death can be baptized if, having some knowledge of the principal truths of the faith, the person has manifested in any way at all the intention to receive baptism and promises to observe the commandments of the Christian religion.

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;

2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

§2. An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents is baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents.

878 If the baptism was not administered by the pastor or in his presence, the minister of baptism, whoever it is, must inform the pastor of the parish in which it was administered of the conferral of the baptism, so that he records the baptism according to the norm of ⇒ can. 877, §1.
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👍
 
While it is true that we do not baptize the dead (we cannot); it is also true that we should baptize if the death is doubtful.

the formula is “if you are alive, I baptize you…” (“Si vivis,…”)
 
Polycarp1 said:
As a first responder during the last year I have had the opportunity to baptise 2 recently deceased persons. One was a suicide and the other died during the commission of a robbery. If a Catholic lay person baptises someone in this situation is there a need or protocol to follow in informing the Church about it?
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If you do any baptisms you should indeed notify the pastor in whose territory the baptism occurred. This might not be your own pastor, but the one over that territory.

And no, we don’t baptize the dead. We do however baptize if the person might still be alive.
 
On this, at the moment there is a deceased young 18yo man in one of the paddocks due to a road accident. He will be there until investigations are complete. Police have told me he comes from a town about 8 hrs away. I imagine his family will travel down to the site over the weekend.

What would be appropriate to mark and remember the site for them. Are sacramentals, holy water , a cross, or something other, appropriate.

Is there anything appropriate to do now for him besides prayer. From a distance.
 
FrDavid96 said:
While it is true that we do not baptize the dead (we cannot); it is also true that we should baptize if the death is doubtful.

the formula is “if you are alive, I baptize you…” (“Si vivis,…”)
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What about people who, under no circumstances, would want to be baptised?
 
Kaninchen said:
What about people who, under no circumstances, would want to be baptised?
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This was running through my mind reading this thread as well. When a person near me was comatose for a week or so prior to death, both my understanding of the catechism and canon law as well as the advice I was given by a priest at that time was that we could only baptize if there was reason to believe that the individual would want to be (or we have reasonable belief they would not be opposed). I don’t see how we can apply this to strangers, even though I think it’s well-intentioned. Hopefully, someone can educate us on this.
 
Kaninchen said:
What about people who, under no circumstances, would want to be baptised?
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Why would anyone even consider baptizing someone when it is known that they would not want it? That impresses me as being extremely arrogant.

My understanding is that while such a baptism might be valid, it would certainly be illicit - a violation of Canon law. One could potentially run into problems under civil law too. It’s been a while, but I remember reading about a case where the parents of a child who was in the emergency room and near death sued the hospital chaplain, a Catholic priest, for battery after he baptized the child even after they expressly said not to.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
This was running through my mind reading this thread as well. When a person near me was comatose for a week or so prior to death, both my understanding of the catechism and canon law as well as the advice I was given by a priest at that time was that we could only baptize if there was reason to believe that the individual would want to be (or we have reasonable belief they would not be opposed). I don’t see how we can apply this to strangers, even though I think it’s well-intentioned. Hopefully, someone can educate us on this.
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It was certainly my understanding that the Church had made the rules pretty clear but, it would appear, not as clear as I’d thought.
 
WilliamE said:
Why would anyone even consider baptizing someone when it is known that they would not want it? That impresses me as being extremely arrogant.

My understanding is that while such a baptism might be valid, it would certainly be illicit - a violation of Canon law. One could potentially run into problems under civil law too. It’s been a while, but I remember reading about a case where the parents of a child who was in the emergency room and near death sued the hospital chaplain, a Catholic priest, for battery after he baptized the child even after they expressly said not to.
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For my part, I’d see it as minor battery,very annoying minor battery but no more than that. On the other hand, I can think of many of my more elderly relatives who would be enraged.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
This was running through my mind reading this thread as well. When a person near me was comatose for a week or so prior to death, both my understanding of the catechism and canon law as well as the advice I was given by a priest at that time was that we could only baptize if there was reason to believe that the individual would want to be (or we have reasonable belief they would not be opposed). I don’t see how we can apply this to strangers, even though I think it’s well-intentioned. Hopefully, someone can educate us on this.
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I would agree we cannot baptise a total stranger.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
This was running through my mind reading this thread as well. When a person near me was comatose for a week or so prior to death, both my understanding of the catechism and canon law as well as the advice I was given by a priest at that time was that we could only baptize if there was reason to believe that the individual would want to be (or we have reasonable belief they would not be opposed). I don’t see how we can apply this to strangers, even though I think it’s well-intentioned. Hopefully, someone can educate us on this.
Click to expand...
WilliamE said:
Why would anyone even consider baptizing someone when it is known that they would not want it? That impresses me as being extremely arrogant.

My understanding is that while such a baptism might be valid, it would certainly be illicit - a violation of Canon law. One could potentially run into problems under civil law too. It’s been a while, but I remember reading about a case where the parents of a child who was in the emergency room and near death sued the hospital chaplain, a Catholic priest, for battery after he baptized the child even after they expressly said not to.
Click to expand...
Kaninchen said:
It was certainly my understanding that the Church had made the rules pretty clear but, it would appear, not as clear as I’d thought.
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That wasn’t the OPs question.

The question was about the protocol of notifying someone–in this case, the local pastor.
Polycarp1 said:
… If a Catholic lay person baptises someone in this situation is there a need or protocol to follow in informing the Church about it?
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The issue that some of you (quoted above) have raised is a related question, and yes a perfectly legitimate one.

We don’t force baptism on people. If we know that they do not want (would reject, etc.) baptism, then we don’t baptize them.

We also don’t baptize people who are already baptized (that wasn’t asked either although it is a reason for not-wanting it). If someone asked me “do you want to be baptized” my answer would be “absolutely not…I’ve already been baptized.”
 
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