Emergency Contraception

[thistle]

I am kind of sorry for it, but I still see myself as just a victim of a bad situation. I don’t think I could confess that in Church anyways. Plus the chances that I was pregnant are slim to none, as there was a condom used. I just freaked out and wanted extra protection. It sucks because my parents don’t know what happened. They had to take me to get the pill so I told them I just willingly had sex and didn’t use a condom. They’re Catholic so they think I’m pretty much Satan’s child. But I couldn’t tell them for certain reasons so I guess that’s how it has to be.

As for the “gays can’t be truly happy” quote, that is totally untrue. I AM truly happy, the happiest I’ve ever been to be with Breanna. It’s just like hetero love with the fireworks and that feeling of “wow” when you first saw them. It’s love, and it’s unquestionable.

Its NOT love and it is questionable. The Church teaches that with the Authority given to it by Christ himself.

 

[AliciaCL]

HeleneMarie, I’m getting off track from your initial topic but fireworks does not equate to happiness. People feel that in affairs but that doesn’t make it right. The feel deep sincere love but that doesn’t make it moral.

 

[06convert]

HeleneMarie, are you Catholic? Practicing?

Guys lets not get off track here. It’s not our place to judge her happiness.

 

[Seatuck]

Thanks Janet S. I’m going to look into this further.

 

[Seatuck]

Chausa is not convinced that DP is prohibiting emergency conception. I expect we will get a clarification on this.

Comments in §23 may raise some questions about Directive 36. The paragraph states that “anyone who seeks to prevent the implantation of an embryo which may possibly have been conceived and who therefore either requests or prescribes such a pharmaceutical, generally intends abortion.” The Catholic Health Association supports this judgment. It also believes that implementation of Directive 36 of the Ethical and Religious Directives remains unchanged. Plan B, the medication of choice for emergency contraception, does not appear to have a post-fertilization effect, given the results of repeated scientific studies.

chausa.org/Pub/MainNav/ourcommitments/Ethics/DignitasPersonae.htm

 

[Janet_S]

Thanks Janet S. I’m going to look into this further.

The controversy now is over the pharmacology of Plan B (levonorgestrel, a synthetic progestogen)? Is it contraceptive, interceptive, or both?

The information from Duramed Pharmaceuticals (the manufacturer of Plan B) states it does have interceptive activity:

CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY
Emergency contraceptives are not effective if the woman is already pregnant. Plan B® is believed to act as an emergency contraceptive principally by preventing ovulation or fertilization
(by altering tubal transport of sperm and/or ova). In addition, it may inhibit implantation (by altering the endometrium). It is not effective once the process of implantation has begun.

go2planb.com/pdf/PlanBPI.pdf

Others are claiming it is not an interceptive. It would be difficult to design a study to prove this in humans, however, because of the ethical considerations. There are some animal studies that suggest Plan B may not be interceptive and some human studies that indicate it does not alter the endometrial lining in the same way that the pill does. Still, more and larger studies are needed before we can say for sure if it is or is not an interceptive. I think this is exactly what the CDF was talking about when it said this in paragraph 23 of Dignitas Personae:

In order to promote wider use of interceptive methods, it is sometimes stated that the way in which they function is not sufficiently understood. It is true that there is not always
complete knowledge of the way that different pharmaceuticals operate, but scientific studies indicate that the effect of inhibiting implantation is certainly present, even if this does not mean
that such interceptives cause an abortion every time they are used

Until we know the exact pharmacology of Plan B, we must error on the side of life and assume it may act as an interceptive similar to all other hormonal contraceptive/interceptive medications (pills, patches, shots, vaginal rings, implants, etc).

I can’t see how Catholic hospitals can justify using Plan B if they are not certain whether fertilization/conception has occurred. I’m not sure if there is a way to determine early fertilization, but a pregnancy test cannot do that.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I am kind of sorry for it, but I still see myself as just a victim of a bad situation. I don’t think I could confess that in Church anyways. Plus the chances that I was pregnant are slim to none, as there was a condom used. I just freaked out and wanted extra protection. It sucks because my parents don’t know what happened. They had to take me to get the pill so I told them I just willingly had sex and didn’t use a condom. They’re Catholic so they think I’m pretty much Satan’s child. But I couldn’t tell them for certain reasons so I guess that’s how it has to be.

As for the “gays can’t be truly happy” quote, that is totally untrue. I AM truly happy, the happiest I’ve ever been to be with Breanna. It’s just like hetero love with the fireworks and that feeling of “wow” when you first saw them. It’s love, and it’s unquestionable.

Why couldn’t you tell your parents you were raped? In the hospital the doctors would have given you antibiotics for any std’s you could have contracted, and referred to rape counseling.

Also, I’m a mom, I really don’t think your parents see you as Satan’s child. I’m sure they love you very much, and want to see you make the correct choices.

BTW…I had a boyfriend when I was 16…I thought I was happy, fireworks, chemistry etc. The fireworks eventually go away. Fireworks…don’t really make a relationship…they either explode or fizzle out and die.

 

[Janet_S]

Chausa is not convinced that DP is prohibiting emergency conception. I expect we will get a clarification on this.

chausa.org/Pub/MainNav/ourcommitments/Ethics/DignitasPersonae.htm

Thanks for the link. I have doubts about CHA’s claim of “repeated scientific studies”

Plan B, the medication of choice for emergency contraception, does not appear to have a post-fertilization effect, **given the results of repeated scientific studies. **

I’m open to looking at the evidence, though, and have written to the CHA editor for his references and studies. If there is conclusive evidence that Plan B does not act as an interceptive, one wonders why the FDA and Duramed Pharmaceuticals are not aware of it and have not changed the drug information. If I hear back from CHA, I will post the response and references to the studies.

 

[TotallyConfused]

Being gay is just as big a grave sin as using contraception.

No it’s not. According to the Church, acting out homosexual behaviour is sinful, like premarital sex is sinful, but the person is not in constant sin for being gay…

 

[Dispector]

Same sex attraction per se is not a sin but the Church teaches nonetheless that it is objectively disordered.

You’re absolutely correct. Thank you for that correction.

 

[bluerose]

Imagine what it would have been like for a 15 year old to have a baby, let alone a rapist’s baby?

That’s not too hard… you just described the circumstances of my older brother’s conception. And this didn’t happen in modern-day America… this happened in dirt-poor rural Mexico back in the early 1940s.

What I can’t imagine is what this world would have been like without my brother and the lives he touched, including his wife, three daughters and five grandchildren, plus all the good he did in fighting to help the underprivileged, the handicapped, the abused, and the mentally challenged.

He lost his battle with liver cancer early this year and not a day passes that he isn’t missed and loved.

 

[kage_ar]

It sucks because my parents don’t know what happened. They had to take me to get the pill so I told them I just willingly had sex and didn’t use a condom. They’re Catholic so they think I’m pretty much Satan’s child. But I couldn’t tell them for certain reasons so I guess that’s how it has to be.

As a Catholic Christian mother of a teenager, I would want to know if my daughter was raped. I would fight to get her every bit of the best in emotional, psychological and spiritual support. Prayers that you have sought counseling from a holy Priest.

 

[Seatuck]

Thanks for the link. I have doubts about CHA’s claim of “repeated scientific studies”

I’m open to looking at the evidence, though, and have written to the CHA editor for his references and studies. If there is conclusive evidence that Plan B does not act as an interceptive, one wonders why the FDA and Duramed Pharmaceuticals are not aware of it and have not changed the drug information. If I hear back from CHA, I will post the response and references to the studies.

One does wonder. Many moral theologians and medical personal are saying that there is no evidence that the typical pill/patch is abortifacient. Please do share what you get. I’ve an interest as an RN. Thanks.

I’ve asked several priests on this now and they all agree that Dignitas Personae falls short of prohibiting the practice as the Connecticut Bishop’s have allowed it. Namely by doing a pregnancy test first.

 

[Janet_S]

One does wonder. Many moral theologians and medical personal are saying that there is no evidence that the typical pill/patch is abortifacient. Please do share what you get. I’ve an interest as an RN. Thanks.

I’ve asked several priests on this now and they all agree that Dignitas Personae falls short of prohibiting the practice as the Connecticut Bishop’s have allowed it. Namely by doing a pregnancy test first.

I’m sure you know this, but a pregnancy test wouldn’t be positive within 72 hours of fertilization anyway. The only thing a pregnancy test would accomplish is to avoid using Plan B in the case of an established pregnancy to avoid causing birth defects.

Also, I don’t see how so many priests and moral theologians conclude that DP does not prohibit Plan B. If this quote from DP is not referring to Plan B, what is it referring to:

In order to promote wider use of interceptive methods, it is sometimes stated that the way in which they function is not sufficiently understood. It is true that there is not always
complete knowledge of the way that different pharmaceuticals operate, but scientific studies indicate that the effect of inhibiting implantation is certainly present, even if this does not mean
that such interceptives cause an abortion every time they are used, also because conception does not occur after every act of sexual intercourse. It must be noted, however, that anyone
who seeks to prevent the implantation of an embryo which may possibly have been conceived and who therefore either requests or prescribes such a pharmaceutical, generally intends
abortion.

We know that the drug companies list interceptive means (altering the endometrial lining of the uterus) as part of the pharmacology of Plan B and other hormonal contraceptives. The last time I investigated the issue (about 2 years ago), I found that there were no studies designed to determine directly the post-fertilization effects (interceptive effects) of hormonal contraceptives on humans. Now, CHA says there are repeated studies that show Plan B has no post-fertilization effects, so that is surprising news to me. We’ll see. I hope to hear back from them soon, and I will definitely let you know what I hear.

 

[HeleneMarie]

Why couldn’t you tell your parents you were raped? In the hospital the doctors would have given you antibiotics for any std’s you could have contracted, and referred to rape counseling.

Also, I’m a mom, I really don’t think your parents see you as Satan’s child. I’m sure they love you very much, and want to see you make the correct choices.

BTW…I had a boyfriend when I was 16…I thought I was happy, fireworks, chemistry etc. The fireworks eventually go away. Fireworks…don’t really make a relationship…they either explode or fizzle out and die.

I couldn’t tell my parents because I didn’t want to get the guy in trouble. He was one of my friends and also a friend of my group of friends too. I thought no one would believe me, and I felt like it was my fault for a while. Also, I was afraid that he’d tell my parents I was drinking (although I was not drunk-- I mean, no means no, no matter what state of mind you say it in). And yes my parents love me and I love them so much, but they still have that side that doesn’t trust me and that sees me as sort of evil.

Also, what I was trying to say wasn’t just fireworks, I meant love. You know, like I see between my parents or any other married couple. That connection that binds them together. Believe me, I’ve been in relationships before, but none of them felt so intense. It’s hard to believe an 18 year old, I know, because all teens are always thinking they are so in love because they don’t know any better. They don’t know what love is. But I think I do.

 

[onmyknees]

Helen Marie,
I just wanted to add that when I was 18 and in love I thought that my boyfriend and I had a mature loving relationship compared to my previous relationships with other guys. We felt that connection too. And my parents had shown me an example of lasting marital love. I too thought I knew what real love was all about. But I did not really know all that was needed for that kind of lasting love to endure. True loving is about sacrifice. It is selfless acts of giving when you don’t feel like it at all. This is fun and easy to do at the beginning of a relationship. It gets harder after a few years have passed. I know of a homosexual couple who came back to their Catholic faith and are now both chaste. Everything is possible with God!

 

[happymommy]

I couldn’t tell my parents because I didn’t want to get the guy in trouble. He was one of my friends and also a friend of my group of friends too. I thought no one would believe me, and I felt like it was my fault for a while. Also, I was afraid that he’d tell my parents I was drinking (although I was not drunk-- I mean, no means no, no matter what state of mind you say it in). And yes my parents love me and I love them so much, but they still have that side that doesn’t trust me and that sees me as sort of evil.

Also, what I was trying to say wasn’t just fireworks, I meant love. You know, like I see between my parents or any other married couple. That connection that binds them together. Believe me, I’ve been in relationships before, but none of them felt so intense. It’s hard to believe an 18 year old, I know, because all teens are always thinking they are so in love because they don’t know any better. They don’t know what love is. But I think I do.

I can’t believe I have to say this but, friends don’t rape friends! Hello!!! I’m guessing if he was willing to do that he is not your friend therefore, who cares if you get him into trouble for raping you! That makes no sense!
Did you have SSA before you were raped? If not, then I’m wondering if that isn’t why you are feeling this way now. Or maybe you have a fear of men, I know I would fear my group of “friends” if this was the type of thing they did. Also, did you think that by not telling anyone what he has done, he is free to do it again to another “friend”!

 

[HeleneMarie]

You’re absolutely right. Friends don’t do that to friends. And I’ve given a lot of thought to whether that situation turned me gay, but I had SSA before that. I was in elementary school and I was checking out other girls, although I didn’t think it made me different back then. I sometimes wonder if I would’ve come out about the rape if things would’ve been different. But I can’t ever see myself being with a guy and I think the logistics don’t really matter because I’m happy living this lifestyle.

 

[kage_ar]

But I can’t ever see myself being with a guy and I think the logistics don’t really matter because I’m happy living this lifestyle.

Imagine you are walking down the street, and a nice older gentleman with a sweet face says “This is a gift for you”. He hands you a huge box, and walks away. You open the bag, it is FULL of $100 bills - millions of dollars worth!

You are so happy, you begin to cry. You just know that God sent you an angel with money that will change your life.

You are walking on air, dancing and singing. You quit your job - tell them you will never be back. You give away all you own, what do you need that old junk for, you are now rich! You spend the evening maxing out your credit cards on a banquet and huge luxury suites at a fancy hotel.

The next day, you go to the bank. The teller looks at the bills, and laughs. The are counterfeit, not real.

You are now homeless, bankrupt and unemployed.

You tell the teller - but, this made me happy, I was never so happy. She just shakes her head and tosses you into the street.

What you feel is happiness is not based on real love, it is a counterfeit. Real love is ordained and blessed by God. What you are engaging in is sin, it is a sin that is called fornication. The New Testament is quite clear on the subject. I know it feels real, but, anything that keeps you from the Sacraments is a sin.

Please contact Courage www.couragerc.net. Come back to the Eucharist.

 

[happymommy]

Imagine you are walking down the street, and a nice older gentleman with a sweet face says “This is a gift for you”. He hands you a huge box, and walks away. You open the bag, it is FULL of $100 bills - millions of dollars worth!

You are so happy, you begin to cry. You just know that God sent you an angel with money that will change your life.

You are walking on air, dancing and singing. You quit your job - tell them you will never be back. You give away all you own, what do you need that old junk for, you are now rich! You spend the evening maxing out your credit cards on a banquet and huge luxury suites at a fancy hotel.

The next day, you go to the bank. The teller looks at the bills, and laughs. The are counterfeit, not real.

You are now homeless, bankrupt and unemployed.

You tell the teller - but, this made me happy, I was never so happy. She just shakes her head and tosses you into the street.

What you feel is happiness is not based on real love, it is a counterfeit. Real love is ordained and blessed by God. What you are engaging in is sin, it is a sin that is called fornication. The New Testament is quite clear on the subject. I know it feels real, but, anything that keeps you from the Sacraments is a sin.

Please contact Courage www.couragerc.net. Come back to the Eucharist.

Brilliant!:clapping: