EMHC Abuse

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LilyM said:
Point me to where in RS it says that the EMHC is to be guided by his or her opinion alone in determining whether or not there are a sufficient number of EMsHC present.

I can see, for example, a situation where a Bishop may have set specific guidelines in regard to numbers, which you can adhere to if the priest is disobeying them, but nowhere that the EMHC’s gut is to be the only guide.
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If there are 50 people attending a Mass – and 6 EMHC approach the Altar —a few of them can determine to return to their seats.
 
Walking_Home said:
If there are 50 people attending a Mass – and 6 EMHC approach the Altar —a few of them can determine to return to their seats.
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:nope: only if they’re certain that there is nothing in either the ‘mind of the Church’ or the needs of that particular priest or congregation warrant the use of 6 EMsHC.

Firstly, they don’t know the mind of the Church in such a situation - not like any of 'em have a hotline to the Pope or the Bishop. And secondly there are plenty of reasons, some of which I’ve mentioned in earlier posts, as to why they MAY be warranted. Which they probably WON’T have been informed of.

Not knowing either the mind of the Church or the priest, they are in no position to make a judgement of this kind in this situation. If it was 15 or 20 EMsHC then you’d definitely have more than any circumstances could justify, 6 would be borderline (what if two are to take the ciborium and chalice into a cry room and another two to the choir loft, for example? Sounds reasonable.)
 
Walking_Home said:
RS-2004
[158.] Indeed, the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may administer Communion only when the Priest and Deacon are lacking, when the Priest is prevented by weakness or advanced age or some other genuine reason, or when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged
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And WHO determines if there is some “other genuine reason”? The experienced priest or the less experienced person sitting in the pew.
 
Walking_Home said:
If there are 50 people attending a Mass – and 6 EMHC approach the Altar —a few of them can determine to return to their seats.
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If there are too many of them there, then it is up to the priest to make that determination. Not up to them who may not know if the priest is not feeling well or if there is a pressing appointment that the priest needs to rush off to as quickly as possible to maybe give the last rites to somebody on their death bed.

The priest is not REQUIRED under church law to explain his decision to those that he shepards but those that are being shepard ARE required to obey the shepard – both the bible and the CCC spell this out.
 
Sir_Knight said:
If there are too many of them there, then it is up to the priest to make that determination. Not up to them who may not know if the priest is not feeling well or if there is a pressing appointment that the priest needs to rush off to as quickly as possible to maybe give the last rites to somebody on their death bed.

The priest is not REQUIRED under church law to explain his decision to those that he shepards but those that are being shepard ARE required to obey the shepard – both the bible and the CCC spell this out.
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You protest to much. By chance are you an EMHC. Seems as if you are an EMHC – who has become to attached to a position which is provisional – and find its limiting threatening.
 
Walking_Home said:
You protest to much.
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And you are failing to obey and submit yourself to your church leaders as both scripture and the CCC commands us to do by micro-challenging their experienced decisions because they might not agree with your less-experienced opinions.
Walking_Home said:
By chance are you an EMHC.
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Yes, I am.
Walking_Home said:
Seems as if you are an EMHC – who has become to attached to a position which is provisional – and find its limiting threatening.
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Actually, you couldn’t be more incorrect.

I spend about 4-6 hours a week bring communion to 6 homebound parishioners who are no longer able to make it to church. I rarely distribute communion during mass and have not signed up to do so despite being asked by our Monsignor a number of times.

However, when it is time to distribute communion and there are already two priests, two deacons and five EMHCs already up there and he says from the altar “Alan, would you please come up?”; I do not think it would be proper for me to refuse as that would go against both scripture and the CCC.

And even RS-2004 allows for other genuine reasons which I may not be aware of, nor is the priest REQUIRED to justify those reasons to me.

So much for your theory.
 
Sir_Knight said:
And you are failing to obey and submit yourself to your church leaders as both scripture and the CCC commands us to do by micro-challenging their experienced decisions because they might not agree with your less-experienced opinions.

Yes, I am.

Actually, you couldn’t be more incorrect.

I spend about 4-6 hours a week bring communion to 6 homebound parishioners who are no longer able to make it to church. I rarely distribute communion during mass and have not signed up to do so despite being asked by our Monsignor a number of times.

However, when it is time to distribute communion and there are already two priests, two deacons and five EMHCs already up there and he says from the altar “Alan, would you please come up?”; I do not think it would be proper for me to refuse as that would go against both scripture and the CCC.

And even RS-2004 allows for other genuine reasons which I may not be aware of, nor is the priest REQUIRED to justify those reasons to me.

So much for your theory.
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Of course — one is free to find any loophole --to place oneself up there next to the priest.
 
Walking_Home said:
Of course — one is free to find any loophole --to place oneself up there next to the priest.
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He’s not placing himself anywhere. The priest is requesting him to act as EMHC, a request that is not to be ignored except for very serious reason and not merely his own opinion or whim.
 
Walking_Home said:
Of course — one is free to find any loophole --to place oneself up there next to the priest.
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Your implications are less than charitable and thus your true colors begin to show. If I wanted to find a “loophole” to be next to the priest, I would have signed up when asked the first time.

It appear that you are the one looking for loopholes to avoid obeying your church leaders in violation of both scripture and official church teaching as found in the CCC.
 
LilyM said:
He’s not placing himself anywhere. The priest is requesting him to act as EMHC, a request that is not to be ignored except for very serious reason and not merely his own opinion or whim.
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Thank you.

He obviously has “issues” with obeying & submitting to church authority as both scripture and the CCC commands us to do thinking that anyone (including a priest who has actual experience in the matter) that disagrees with his opinion, is automaticly in the wrong.
 
When I see an Extraordinary Minister of the Holy Eucharist appointed as pastor, then I will agree that he/she has authority to say whether he/she is needed or not. Until then, that is the pastor or assistant pastor’s decision. Not the lay person.
Deacon Ed B
 
Joannm said:
Well here is one source.
archden.org/archbishop/docs/2_12_03_liturgy_communion.htm
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Ok except there is no mention of this being an abuse. Secondly and most importantly the Archbishop is speaking of laity giving blessings.
But extraordinary ministers of holy Communion do not ordinarily have a commission to bless in the name of the Church, as priests and deacons do.
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Also his opinion is that those who can not recieve can still come forward infact he talks about greats saints encouraging spiritual communion.
But Thomas Aquinas, Alphonsus Liguori and many other great saints strongly encouraged spiritual communion as a practice.
Both children and adults can make a spiritual communion. They may come forward with their arms crossed and bow before the Eucharist. Then the priest, deacon or extraordinary minister could say to them kindly, “Receive the Lord Jesus in your heart.” This is not a blessing, but an invitation to worship, so no gestures are made.
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Either way this is an archbishops opinion not a rubric mentioning it as an abuse. At least this archbishop’s attitude is much more charitable than yours is.
 
lucybeebee said:
Maybe one of our older posters can answer this question for me. How long did it take to distribute Communion in a large parish or cathedral pre-Vatican II? Yes, I know the people would not have received the Precious Blood, but it still would have taken some amount of time I think. Even if the distribution process would be time consuming what’s wrong with being in prayer during that period?:confused:
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Exactly! The length of time it was taking never crossed our minds. Not for anyone I knew. As someone earlier mentioned, another priest would often come out to help with Communion. Taking longer doesn’t work for our modern fast-food mentality.
 
Walking_Home said:
That would be part of the training the EMHC’s should be receiving.
If it is not being done—the ball is being dropped. The Church already takes into account the use of EMHC’s when there is a valid need ( illness) . Even with that in mind – She does say the EMHCs are to determine if there is a need for their services. An EMHC with experience – should become knowledgeable enough to determine whether there truly exists is a need.
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So now EMHCs are getting training in when they are needed, but the priest is not?
 
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