EMHC as a norm - globally

[pianistclare]

The term “extraordinary” doesn’t in this case mean that their use has to be an unusual or exceptional occurrence. Rather, the ordinary minister of Holy Communion is the priest or deacon with extraordinary ministers used in situations whenever the number of faithful wishing to receive communion is so great that the celebration of Mass or the giving of communion outside Mass would take too long. When exactly this applies is of course a matter of judgment (how long is too long…) which, to some extent, depends in local custom but to use a simple example, a mass with say 500 communicants requires at least one extraordinary minister if not several - even if communion is only distributed under one kind. However, the General Instruction on the Roman Missal encourages (where permitted) distribution of communion to the faithful under both kinds - effectively making extraordinary ministers a matter of necessity. Granted however, they are only intended to be supplemental to ordinary ministers and ultimately this comes back to catechesis so that the different (but complementary) roles of clergy and lity are properly understood as well as the particular role of EMHC themselves.

I know this, I think everyone here knows this. That wasn’t my question.
Never mind. It was an interesting thread. People are always upset about it, but my point is that the priests don’t see it as “gee there’s too many people here, let’s get some other to help distribute”.
It’s just becoming the norm, even if there’s only a small amount of people present. We’ve never ever had 500 people at Mass…but we always have 6-8 EMCH’s. Plus at least 3-4 Deacons.
It seems that we use them despite any "need’.

 

[ajecphotos]

I look at is an honour to carry out the ministry. I also distribute outside the church to the housebound. We are there to help the priest and thus serve God. If one believes in Catholic Tradition one should believe that EHMCs ministry is direct from God. A calling from God through his Holy Church to help the priest / parish.

Maybe it is being ‘abused’ in some places? I dont know. All i know is that where i come from we are only used just enough to help the priest. Never to replace the priest.

 

[YoungTradCath]

1> I didn’t say whether we distribute from the Chalice or not.
2> This doesn’t solve the problem. It just assumes that people are receiving that shouldn’t.

1. I don’t think assuming anything in a general sense is wrong. For example, to think, “There are people who receive Communion who should not,” is not wrong. Saying, “Judy shouldn’t receive Communion,” is wrong. I don’t think we have to have some self-reported surveys to act on this.

 

[Phemie]

Sure. Liturgical innovation, and for that matter innovation in general, is an inherent characteristic of Protestantism. Usually it comes under the guise of “returning to the praxis of the Primitive Church,” but turns out to be nothing of the sort. Pope Pius XII warned about this in 1947 (Med. Dei 62 ff), and Benedict XVI addressed it as a widespread reality in 2005 (Address to Roman Curia, 22 Dec) and tried thereafter to correct it.

Please note that I recognize the lawfulness (and historical precedent) of extraordinary ministers and other practices previously forbidden. What I call innovation is the use, everywhere and in all circumstances, of every extraordinary and least preferred option, often in ways not intended, so that the face of the Roman rite is now radically different from what it was for centuries. This was never the intention of the Church, but of radicals.

Interestingly, here at the Anglican parish, communion is distributed by the deacon and the priest to the faithful who are kneeling at the altar rail.

 

[twf]

Interestingly, here at the Anglican parish, communion is distributed by the deacon and the priest to the faithful who are kneeling at the altar rail.

I know from personal experience that using the altar rail is a far more efficient means of distributing Holy communion. It goes so fast! Definitely reduces the need for EMHC.

 

[maryjk]

1. I don’t think assuming anything in a general sense is wrong. For example, to think, “There are people who receive Communion who should not,” is not wrong. Saying, “Judy shouldn’t receive Communion,” is wrong. I don’t think we have to have some self-reported surveys to act on this.

I didn’t say it was wrong.

I said that it doesn’t address the issue of 1000 people at Mass.

The problem, if there is one, is that not enough people go to Confession. Not that too many people go to Communion.

I would think the goal is to increase the number of people going to Confession, which would bring the number of people going to Communion, right back up to the 1000 people we have attending Mass.

Overall, don’t we want everyone in a state of grace, able to receive Communion every week?

 

[MissRose73]

Both my mother and I are EMHC’s. Our parish usually has several hundred people at each Mass. I consider it an honor and a privilege to assist. We need to pray for more priests and deacons too.

 

[Corki]

EMHC as a norm - globally

Globally?

Really?

We want to split hairs on who should, and when they should, distribute the precious blood and body of Christ to fellow believers, when in Iraq and Syria, we have Catholic brothers and sisters who cannot even attend Mass because their churches have been destroyed, and many of their priests and parish members have been executed?

Give glory to God for the opportunity we have, instead of over analyzing rules or intents of rules.

Is there anything in this discussion that indicates that the posters are not concerned about the problems facing Christians in other countries - especially the middle east?

Are we supposed to refrain from any and all discussion other than that one topic? Liturgical rules and norms are important. Discussing them doesn’t in any way minimize other more urgent needs of the Church.

 

[sscott]

PianistClaire- You made some very good points that at your church you have adequate number of clergy to distribute to the communicants. Ask your priest why he requires so many assistants. I think his answer will be that he doesn’t want to disappoint the EMHCs. Once a privilege is allowed, it is hard to turn back to the old way. People are always in a hurry. If your church is used to having so many distributors, the people will resent the extra time required by having so many. It’s not very devout, but most people aren’t, as you see by so few at confession.

 

[pianistclare]

PianistClaire- You made some very good points that at your church you have adequate number of clergy to distribute to the communicants. Ask your priest why he requires so many assistants. I think his answer will be that he doesn’t want to disappoint the EMHCs. Once a privilege is allowed, it is hard to turn back to the old way. People are always in a hurry. If your church is used to having so many distributors, the people will resent the extra time required by having so many. It’s not very devout, but most people aren’t, as you see by so few at confession.

Exactly. that’s the thing with these “innovations”. Once you permit them, the faithful feel as if they have something some privilege taken away…like they are being corrected. I feel bad when I see adults serving at the altar. And then the people complain the little kids don’t want to do it. They have had their special place taken from them by adults who want to be up front.
I wish people would understand that everyone present at Mass has a role…to pray in community, to worship the Lord. and to participate fully in the prayers and the singing. No one is ever “left out” in Mass. It’s for everyone.
As for my parish…we have this thing about having everyone taking ownership…everyone involved in some way. We have a small congregation but at least 50 readers. 50 EMHC’s. 40 ushers or “ministers of hospitality”
I joke with people…if you don’t have a name-tag, you must be new.
I wish more people would want to work with the youth…that more people would work with St. Vincent de Paul, or the Prison ministry, or the Altar linens. But those are not as visible I guess. And they take more time. But I digress…sorry.

 

[larsont7]

I find it interesting that only a couple people actually answered the OP’s question (Poland and Mexico seemed to be the only two real answers). I wish I had more info to give, but I have not attended an OF Mass in any other country, so I’m not sure if EMHCs are the norm in other places around the world.

I would venture to guess that they are the norm in Western Europe and the majority of the Americas, though that is just from images I have seen in news articles and the like. I’d also be interested in knowing if they are the norm in places like Eastern Europe, Africa, or Asia.

As for all the side arguments going on, I will say this. I agree with those who believe EMHCs are overused during Mass. We are only required to spend roughly one hour of one day during the week with Our Precious Lord, so spending another 15-20 minutes in Communion line doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to me. And distributing ONLY the Sacred Host would also cut down on EMHCs in churches that are short on priests.

Prior to Vatican II, there were no lay EMHCs distributing Holy Communion, and yet the Catholic Church survived. Obviously there are exceptions out there (huge megachurches with a limited number of priests, priests with health issues, etc.), but for the most part, I believe the Church could survive again without the number of lay EMHCs we have.

• Disclaimer * - Note that I am talking strictly about EMHCs at Mass, not those who bring Holy Communion to the sick and elderly.

 

[Phemie]

I first came to this parish 17 years ago and found that we were fortunate enough to have two priests, sometimes three, in residence. Almost every Mass was concelebrated and on occasion we’d have three priests in the Sanctuary at Saturday evening’s Mass, rarely fewer than two at Sunday morning’s Mass. Even with three priests we still used 3 EMHCs and two priests sat and watched them.

When I suggested at a liturgy committee meeting that any time the EMCHs saw that there was more than one priest, they should decide among themselves that one or two of them should remain in their pew at Communion time, you would have thought I’d suggested that they all write me a blank cheque on their bank account. If they were scheduled they were going to be up there even if there were enough priests to fill all four stations. Of course it didn’t help when one of the priests stood up and shouted at me that they hadn’t listened to Rome on this topic before and they weren’t about to start now.

The mentality is such that when we had an Ordination in our parish with at least 12 priests concelebrating there was an expectation that there would be EMCHs used, especially women. I refused and was vindicated when the Bishop said “NO EMHCs” and I didn’t schedule any for the next day’s newly ordained priest’s First Mass either, since most of the priests stayed for that one too.

Our last pastor cut the number of EMHCs used by only having them minister the Chalice, one at the Saturday evening Mass and two, one on each side of the church, at Sunday Mass. The Bishop insists that the Precious Blood be offered at Sunday Mass, as I found out when I read his message at the end of the H1N1 scare in which he informed all Pastors that it was time to resume the important practice of offering the Chalice to all.

 

[Marysann]

We live in Italy. I don’t know what the Italian Bishops Conference regulations are, however I have never seen lay people distributing Holy Communion except at Santa Susanna in Rome. That is the American parish, which is run by American priests.

 

[houseofsaul]

Protestant influence?!

Can you explain this comment, please?

Although the mainline Protestant denominations conduct communion services like Catholic parishes (a line of people moving forward to receive communion), the most influential Protestant churches in the U.S. and for that matter, in the world, are the Evangelical Protestant denominations. If they are still doing a communion service (many only do communion a few times a year), most Evangelical Protestant churches pass the communion around the pews in plates and little plastic (or glass) cups. I haven’t seen any Catholic parishes influenced by these practices.

As for the OP’s question, I don’t know the answer. From what I read about the state of Catholicism in many other nations, there are not that many priests, so I’m guessing that in many countries, not only are EMHCs used more, but there may be more “communion services” where there is no priest at all.

Coming from a protestant background (raised Baptist then joining the Methodist as an adult) and either by membership or visitor participation I have only seen communion distibuted the way you descibe once…in the Disciples of Christ.

 

[houseofsaul]

The United States is a little unique. We are one of the nations with the largest number of Catholics, yet we are out numbered by Protestants. We are the largest Catholic minority in the world.

So Protestant culture rubs off on Catholics, especially Cafeteria Catholics. The Protestant culture and ideas also rubbed off a bit after VII (namely the abandoning of Habits by some nuns/sisters, the use of hymns - not prayers / psalms - during mass, uses of non-sacred music in Mass, uses of Protestant hymns, etc.

There is a good book about this called: American Church: The Remarkable Rise, Meteoric Fall, and Uncertain Future of Catholicism in America published by Ignatius Press.

amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1586177575/ref=pd_aw_sims_5/183-1845200-8217042?pi=SY115&simLd=1

There is another book, published by Sophia Institute Press called The Decline and Fall of the Catholic Church in America

amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1928832792?pc_redir=1409149911&robot_redir=1

I can attest to this …I couldn’t believe the differences I saw from 1988 when I was first introduced to Catholicism to 2012 when I started regularly attending Mass again. Tho I have made the Church my home, I pray for a Byzantine Catholic Church in my area or the opportunity to move near one.

 

[Cat]

Exactly. that’s the thing with these “innovations”. Once you permit them, the faithful feel as if they have something some privilege taken away…like they are being corrected. I feel bad when I see adults serving at the altar. And then the people complain the little kids don’t want to do it. They have had their special place taken from them by adults who want to be up front.
I wish people would understand that everyone present at Mass has a role…to pray in community, to worship the Lord. and to participate fully in the prayers and the singing. No one is ever “left out” in Mass. It’s for everyone.
As for my parish…we have this thing about having everyone taking ownership…everyone involved in some way. We have a small congregation but at least 50 readers. 50 EMHC’s. 40 ushers or “ministers of hospitality”
I joke with people…if you don’t have a name-tag, you must be new.
I wish more people would want to work with the youth…that more people would work with St. Vincent de Paul, or the Prison ministry, or the Altar linens. But those are not as visible I guess. And they take more time. But I digress…sorry.

Working with youth or St. Vincent de Paul or the Prison ministry is not a matter of “taking more time.”

These are specialty ministries required a specific set of skills that many of us simply do not have.

Youth ministry in particular requires the ability to identify and communicate with teenagers and strike the balance between being a friend and being a mentor. It does teens no good when an adult is a “buddy” who is unable to correct them and guide them. But it also does teens no good when an adult has a lot of knowledge about morals and good-decision making, but can’t relate to the teens or communicate to them.

Youth ministry also requires a lot of sheer nerve and savvy, because nowadays, there are so many safeguards that must be followed to prevent sexual abuses and charges (true or false) of sexual abuse. An adult’s life can be utterly ruined by a false accusation of sexual impropriety.

I agree with the concept that everyone in a parish should “take ownership.” It’s the concept used in Evangelical Protestant churches–gives someone a task, and they will show up to fulfill that task because they know that others are counting on them. I believe that many people leave church (Catholic and Protestant) because they don’t feel like there is any purpose to going, or that they “belong.” People like to have a “job to do” and feel like they are contributing to the Body Life of the Church, as well as serving the Lord Jesus.

But people should seek to learn what their spiritual gifts are (see the lists in I Corinthians 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4), and get involved in ministries that will make use of their spiritual gifts. Everything works well when we do the jobs that we are gifted to do, not just the jobs that need to be done. But when people try to do jobs that they aren’t gifted to do, things get unhappy.

And we need to remember that St. James said, “Let not many of us become teachers knowing that we shall incur a stricter judgment.”

 

[Cat]

I find it interesting that only a couple people actually answered the OP’s question (Poland and Mexico seemed to be the only two real answers). I wish I had more info to give, but I have not attended an OF Mass in any other country, so I’m not sure if EMHCs are the norm in other places around the world.

I would venture to guess that they are the norm in Western Europe and the majority of the Americas, though that is just from images I have seen in news articles and the like. I’d also be interested in knowing if they are the norm in places like Eastern Europe, Africa, or Asia.

As for all the side arguments going on, I will say this. I agree with those who believe EMHCs are overused during Mass. We are only required to spend roughly one hour of one day during the week with Our Precious Lord, so spending another 15-20 minutes in Communion line doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to me. And distributing ONLY the Sacred Host would also cut down on EMHCs in churches that are short on priests.

Prior to Vatican II, there were no lay EMHCs distributing Holy Communion, and yet the Catholic Church survived. Obviously there are exceptions out there (huge megachurches with a limited number of priests, priests with health issues, etc.), but for the most part, I believe the Church could survive again without the number of lay EMHCs we have.

• Disclaimer * - Note that I am talking strictly about EMHCs at Mass, not those who bring Holy Communion to the sick and elderly.

It’s not a question of spending 15-20 minutes with our Lord. That’s not the issue.

The issue is spending 15-20 minutes in a traffic jam in the parking lot (no fun if you have a carload of hungry, tired children).

Many parishes (e.g., my parish) have multiple Masses on Saturday and Sunday, and there are traffic and parking issues necessitating a gap of at least a half hour between each Mass.

Masses start at 6:30 a.m. on Sunday in my parish and the Masses are full (standing room only). If every Mass was extended by 15 minutes, the last Mass of the morning would finish at 2:45 p.m.

Frankly, I think many people would find that schedule rather difficult, and not because they don’t want to spend time with Jesus.

 

[Cat]

Coming from a protestant background (raised Baptist then joining the Methodist as an adult) and either by membership or visitor participation I have only seen communion distibuted the way you descibe once…in the Disciples of Christ.

I was Evangelical Protestant for 47 years. My husband and I were members of/and attended many dozens of Evangelical Protestant churches during that time. Many of these Evangelical Protestant churches were pastored by influential Evangelicals who are authors of best-selling books or who are in demand as speakers all over the world.

I have never seen communion distributed any other way in any Evangelical Protestant church, with one exception–in the last few years that we were Protestant, in the Evangelical Free Church in America that we were attending, the communion elements were left out on a table at the back of the sanctuary (Catholics call this big room the “nave”), and anyone who wished to partake could help themselves as they left the church after the worship service.

But in all the years that we were Evangelical Protestants, always, ALWAYS, the communion elements were passed around throughout the congregation, the bread cubes or bits of saltines on platters, and the grape juice (never wine) in small plastic or glass cups held in trays with small holes to keep the cups from spilling.

 

[pianistclare]

Working with youth or St. Vincent de Paul or the Prison ministry is not a matter of “taking more time.”

These are specialty ministries required a specific set of skills that many of us simply do not have.

Youth ministry in particular requires the ability to identify and communicate with teenagers and strike the balance between being a friend and being a mentor. It does teens no good when an adult is a “buddy” who is unable to correct them and guide them. But it also does teens no good when an adult has a lot of knowledge about morals and good-decision making, but can’t relate to the teens or communicate to them.

Youth ministry also requires a lot of sheer nerve and savvy, because nowadays, there are so many safeguards that must be followed to prevent sexual abuses and charges (true or false) of sexual abuse. An adult’s life can be utterly ruined by a false accusation of sexual impropriety.

I agree with the concept that everyone in a parish should “take ownership.” It’s the concept used in Evangelical Protestant churches–gives someone a task, and they will show up to fulfill that task because they know that others are counting on them. I believe that many people leave church (Catholic and Protestant) because they don’t feel like there is any purpose to going, or that they “belong.” People like to have a “job to do” and feel like they are contributing to the Body Life of the Church, as well as serving the Lord Jesus.

But people should seek to learn what their spiritual gifts are (see the lists in I Corinthians 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4), and get involved in ministries that will make use of their spiritual gifts. Everything works well when we do the jobs that we are gifted to do, not just the jobs that need to be done. But when people try to do jobs that they aren’t gifted to do, things get unhappy.

And we need to remember that St. James said, “Let not many of us become teachers knowing that we shall incur a stricter judgment.”

oh please.
I’m a DRE. I know what I need. I need more people. I can train people. That’s what I do. I need people to serve as an extra set of hands and an extra set of eyes in the Sunday school classes. St. Vincent DePaul needs people to count the collection money. We need women to launder the linens.
These things do take more than 45 minutes. And the require very little skillsets.
When people only want to do the fun stuff and the things that happen in the forefront?
**The ministries that serve the parish and community at large suffer. **
It takes effort to see where there’s a need though. You have to really care. A person who can distribute communion is fairly capable.

 

[maryjk]

IWhen I suggested at a liturgy committee meeting that any time the EMCHs saw that there was more than one priest, they should decide among themselves that one or two of them should remain in their pew at Communion time, you would have thought I’d suggested that they all write me a blank cheque on their bank account. If they were scheduled they were going to be up there even if there were enough priests to fill all four stations. Of course it didn’t help when one of the priests stood up and shouted at me that they hadn’t listened to Rome on this topic before and they weren’t about to start now.

I think some of us forget that every parish isn’t just like our parish. I know I do.

Our EMHC are taught to count Ordinary Ministers, then decide whether or not to come up. Never should an Ordinary Minister sit out. So if we have a visiting priest, an EMHC sits out. If a transitional Deacon is at our parish, an EMHC sits out. There is no discussion, No excuses. I have never seen someone get upset. They simply stay in their seats.

Of course our pastor is a pretty much, say the black, do the red, kind of guy.

But that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t schedule EMHC. Then again, he knows that he will have 1000 people at Mass Sunday morning.