EMHC Giving Blessing?

[Sir_Knight]

Where is it documented by the Church that EMsHC are not to bestow blessings during communion? More specifically, where is the prohibition documented for a layperson to bless someone else in the Name of the Holy Trinity while making the sign of the cross? Thank you.

The question is NOT “Where is it documented by the Church that EMsHC are not to bestow blessings during communion?” Instead, the question SHOULD BE “Where is it documented by the Church that EMsHC can to bestow blessings during communion?” and the answer is NOWHERE!

Nowhere does it say that a priest can not do cartwheels on the altar but just because it doesn’t say that he can not, does not mean that he can. In like fashion, just because it doesn’t say that a EMHC can not do something, does not mean that he can.

 

[FrCorey]

Does any one know if the “Book of Blessings” is available online?

you mean for sale or to read?
yes and no. I can find some pages online but not the whole book.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

you mean for sale or to read?
yes and no. I can find some pages online but not the whole book.

To read. I’m mainly interested in access to the introductory texts rather than the individual rites. My primary interest is to obtain a definitive answer as to whether lay persons can give blessings or not. Whenever that question is posted on here, one gets affirmative and negative answers - so one is no clearer!

 

[stephraim]

To read. I’m mainly interested in access to the introductory texts rather than the individual rites. My primary interest is to obtain a definitive answer as to whether lay persons can give blessings or not. Whenever that question is posted on here, one gets affirmative and negative answers - so one is no clearer!

Laity are allowed to give certain blessings. They must, however, say the prayers of blessing with hands joined, and they sign themselves when saying the concluding ‘dismissal’ (which is a different text than that used by a priest or deacon).

 

[Remington]

The question is NOT “Where is it documented by the Church that EMsHC are not to bestow blessings during communion?” Instead, the question SHOULD BE “Where is it documented by the Church that EMsHC can to bestow blessings during communion?” and the answer is NOWHERE!

Nowhere does it say that a priest can not do cartwheels on the altar but just because it doesn’t say that he can not, does not mean that he can. In like fashion, just because it doesn’t say that a EMHC can not do something, does not mean that he can.

???

I said I thought the Church specifically forbids laypeople to make the sign of the cross while blessing someone else. It doesn’t and that’s news to me. I am sure I have heard or read that a layperson is prohibited from doing this by the Church (probably via EWTN) but again, that’s clearly not the case unless of course we all have missed something here.

Yes we can all draw inferences from the BoB and other documents but the prohibition does not exist. Nevertheless I can certainly see how it would be incongruent for a layperson to make the sign of the cross in certain settings (some more so than others) but again, it’s not a practice that is prohibited by the Church.

 

[Remington]

Laity are allowed to give certain blessings. They must, however, say the prayers of blessing with hands joined, and they sign themselves when saying the concluding ‘dismissal’ (which is a different text than that used by a priest or deacon).

That doesn’t seem to be a documented mandate in the Church, at least it’s not a universal mandate. If a layperson was conducting a communion service I can see how they need to follow the ritual but that ritual does not govern them when they are acting as say a EMHC or taking part in a Bible study group…

 

[joandarc2008]

OK, I think most people here agree that it is wrong to do this in Mass -there is a priest for that. What about in a nursing home where the laity is not using the outstretched hand but sacramentals such as Holy Water as directed by our priest ahead of time with people that would not be well enough to do this on their own or do we no longer have any compassion?

By the way here is the full Vatican instruction on EHMC so there is no confusion:

Article 8

The Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion

The non-ordained faithful already collaborate with the sacred ministers in diverse pastoral situations since “This wonderful gift of the Eucharist, which is the greatest gift of all, demands that such an important mystery should be increasingly better known and its saving power more fully shared”.(95)

Such liturgical service is a response to the objective needs of the faithful especially those of the sick and to those liturgical assemblies in which there are particularly large numbers of the faithful who wish to receive Holy Communion.

§ 1. The canonical discipline concerning extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion must be correctly applied so as to avoid generating confusion. The same discipline establishes that the ordinary minister of Holy Communion is the Bishop, the Priest and the the Deacon.(96) Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are those instituted as acolytes and the faithful so deputed in accordance with Canon 230, § 3.(97)

A non-ordained member of the faithful, in cases of true necessity, may be deputed by the diocesan bishop, using the appropriate form of blessing for these situation, to act as an extraordinary minister to distribute Holy Communion outside of liturgical celebrations ad actum vel ad tempus or for a more stable period. In exceptional cases or in un foreseen circumstances, the priest presiding at the liturgy may authorize such ad actum.(98)

§ 2. Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion.(99) They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there are particularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion. (100)

This function is supplementary and extraordinary (101) and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law. It is thus useful for the diocesan bishop to issue particular norms concerning extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion which, in complete harmony with the universal law of the Church, should regulate the exercise of this function in his diocese. Such norms should provide, amongst other things, for matters such as the instruction in eucharistic doctrine of those chosen to be extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the meaning of the service they provide, the rubrics to be observed, the reverence to be shown for such an august Sacrament and instruction concerning the discipline on admission to Holy Communion.

To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:

— extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants;

— association with the renewal of promises made by priests at the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday, as well as other categories of faithful who renew religious vows or receive a mandate as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion;

— the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”.

 

[stephraim]

That doesn’t seem to be a documented mandate in the Church, at least it’s not a universal mandate. If a layperson was conducting a communion service I can see how they need to follow the ritual but that ritual does not govern them when they are acting as say a EMHC or taking part in a Bible study group…

Saying the prayer of blessing with hands joined must be done by laity for the blessing they are allowed to perform from the Book of Blessings. Regarding laity serving as EMsHC, the CDWDS letter states, “2. Lay people, within the context of Holy Mass, are unable to confer blessings. These blessings, rather, are the competence of the priest (cf. Ecclesia de Mysterio, Notitiae 34 (15 Aug. 1997), art. 6, § 2; Canon 1169, § 2; and Roman Ritual De Benedictionibus (1985), n. 18).” [This may be found in the Moratorium section of this forum.] Thus, they should not be making the sign of the cross over anyone. Technically, this is not legally binding, but it clearly reflects the minds of the CDWDS on the matter.

As I said earlier, laity may not make the sign of the cross over anyone/anything within liturgy.

 

[Remington]

OK, I think most people here agree that it is wrong to do this in Mass -there is a priest for that. What about in a nursing home where the laity is not using the outstretched hand but sacramentals such as Holy Water as directed by our priest ahead of time with people that would not be well enough to do this on their own or do we no longer have any compassion?

By the way here is the full Vatican instruction on EHMC so there is no confusion:

No. We are not talking about such a blessing scenario within the context of the Mass per the rules of this forum. Also look closely at what you said. “…I think most people here agree…” That’s not what I was asking nor what I am looking for. I was asking for Church documents that prohibited the process.

 

[Remington]

Saying the prayer of blessing with hands joined must be done by laity for the blessing they are allowed to perform from the Book of Blessings. Regarding laity serving as EMsHC, the CDWDS letter states, “2. Lay people, within the context of Holy Mass, are unable to confer blessings. These blessings, rather, are the competence of the priest (cf. Ecclesia de Mysterio, Notitiae 34 (15 Aug. 1997), art. 6, § 2; Canon 1169, § 2; and Roman Ritual De Benedictionibus (1985), n. 18).” [This may be found in the Moratorium section of this forum.] Thus, they should not be making the sign of the cross over anyone. Technically, this is not legally binding, but it clearly reflects the minds of the CDWDS on the matter.

As I said earlier, laity may not make the sign of the cross over anyone/anything within liturgy.

Does the BofB say that?

You second comment seems fairly amusing given that so many strenuously contend that even priests/bishops may not impart blessings during the context of the Mass. That’s a fairly arcane document you cite and I’m not at all sure about the authority of the cite. I won’t debate this matter as it’s not allowed here.

In the end while it may not be prudent to make the sign of the cross by a layperson while blessing someone else I’ll say again there doesn’t appear to be any prohibition by it from the Church.

 

[Sir_Knight]

???

I said I thought the Church specifically forbids laypeople to make the sign of the cross while blessing someone else. It doesn’t and that’s news to me. I am sure I have heard or read that a layperson is prohibited from doing this by the Church (probably via EWTN) but again, that’s clearly not the case unless of course we all have missed something here.

Yes we can all draw inferences from the BoB and other documents but the prohibition does not exist. Nevertheless I can certainly see how it would be incongruent for a layperson to make the sign of the cross in certain settings (some more so than others) but again, it’s not a practice that is prohibited by the Church.

Just because something is not explicitly prohibited, does not mean that it is allowed. As with my earlier example, it is not explicitly prohibited for the priest to do cartwheels on the altar but just because it is not explicitly prohibited, does not mean that it is allowed. In like fashion, just because it is not explicitly prohibited for a layperson to give a blessing, do not mean that it is allowed.

One needs to not look at what is prohibited and assume that anything not covered is allowed. Instead, one need to look at what is explicitly allowed to see what is allowed.

Hope that helps.

 

[stephraim]

Does the BofB say that?

Yes, here’s an example from the Order for the Blessing of a Christmas Tree. I’ll give the note from the Introduction and then the actual prayer of blessing:

984 These orders may be used by a priest or a deacon, and also by a layperson, who follows the rites and prayer designated for a lay minister.

995 A minister who is a priest or deacon says the prayer of blessing with hands outstretched; a lay minister says the prayer with hands joined.

Lord our God,
we praise you for the light of creation:
the sun, the moon, and the stars of the night.
We praise you for the light of Israel:
the Law, the prophets, and the wisdom of the Scriptures.
We praise you for Jesus Christ, your Son:
He is Emmanuel, God-with-us, the Prince of Peace, who fills us with the wonder of your love.

Lord God,
let your blessing come upon us as we illumine this tree.
May the light and cheer it gives be a sign
of the joy that fills our hearts.
May all who delight in this tree come to the knowledge and joy of salvation.

We ask this through Christ our Lord.
R. Amen.

 

[joandarc2008]

Yes, here’s an example from the Order for the Blessing of a Christmas Tree. I’ll give the note from the Introduction and then the actual prayer of blessing:

984 These orders may be used by a priest or a deacon, and also by a layperson, who follows the rites and prayer designated for a lay minister.

995 A minister who is a priest or deacon says the prayer of blessing with hands outstretched; a lay minister says the prayer with hands joined.

Lord our God,
we praise you for the light of creation:
the sun, the moon, and the stars of the night.
We praise you for the light of Israel:
the Law, the prophets, and the wisdom of the Scriptures.
We praise you for Jesus Christ, your Son:
He is Emmanuel, God-with-us, the Prince of Peace, who fills us with the wonder of your love.

Lord God,
let your blessing come upon us as we illumine this tree.
May the light and cheer it gives be a sign
of the joy that fills our hearts.
May all who delight in this tree come to the knowledge and joy of salvation.

We ask this through Christ our Lord.
R. Amen.

 

[Remington]

Just because something is not explicitly prohibited, does not mean that it is allowed. As with my earlier example, it is not explicitly prohibited for the priest to do cartwheels on the altar but just because it is not explicitly prohibited, does not mean that it is allowed. In like fashion, just because it is not explicitly prohibited for a layperson to give a blessing, do not mean that it is allowed.

I can see how a layperson making the sign of the cross and blessing someone in the Name of the Holy Trinity could be confusing to some in some settings. That may be a reason not to do it in some instances where doing so is not expressly prohibited or allowed. But that’s as far as it goes. Some have drawn their own conclusions from their own extensions (which carry absolutely no authority) yet they are offered as if they are Church mandates. That’s terribly wrong.

One needs to not look at what is prohibited and assume that anything not covered is allowed. Instead, one need to look at what is explicitly allowed to see what is allowed.

Hope that helps.

That’s simply not true. There are many things that take place in the Church within or outside of the different liturgies that are not in any way specifically (documented) allowed, yet they happen and they are licit.

 

[Remington]

Originally Posted by stephraim View Post
Yes, here’s an example from the Order for the Blessing of a Christmas Tree. I’ll give the note from the Introduction and then the actual prayer of blessing:

984 These orders may be used by a priest or a deacon, and also by a layperson, who follows the rites and prayer designated for a lay minister.

995 A minister who is a priest or deacon says the prayer of blessing with hands outstretched; a lay minister says the prayer with hands joined.

You’re trying to extend the rubrics of a blessing of a Christmas tree (where some use the orans and some have their fingers joined) to making the sign of the cross by a layperson while blessing someone else in a infinite number of settings. Sorry but no way.

In your earlier posting you said “saying the prayer of blessing with hands joined must be done by laity for the blessing they are allowed to perform from the Book of Blessings” as if it was some sort of universal rubric for all lay blessings and it’s clearly not. That’s what I was asking about, not the specific case of blessing a Christmas tree.

 

[stephraim]

You’re trying to extend the rubrics of a blessing of a Christmas tree (where some use the orans and some have their fingers joined) to making the sign of the cross by a layperson while blessing someone else in a infinite number of settings. Sorry but no way.

In your earlier posting you said “saying the prayer of blessing with hands joined must be done by laity for the blessing they are allowed to perform from the Book of Blessings” as if it was some sort of universal rubric for all lay blessings and it’s clearly not. That’s what I was asking about, not the specific case of blessing a Christmas tree.

Check the Book of Blessings and you will find that in all instances, laity must say the prayer of blessing with hands joined (I merely gave one instance). Further, the CDWDS letter quoted in the moratorium section, while a private missive and holding no force of law save for the one to whom it was sent, clearly reflects the mindset of the CDWDS. Do I think laity should not make the sign of the cross over anyone/anything? Yes. Am I advocating that position here? NO. I am stating that within the context of a formal liturgy of the Church (whether Holy Mass, the Liturgy of the Hours, Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest, a blessing allowed by the Book of Blessings), laity are to say the prayer of blessing with hands joined and sign themselves at the dismissal.

By the way, “hands outstretched” is not the same as the ‘orans’. Check the Ceremonial of Bishops.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I can see how a layperson making the sign of the cross and blessing someone in the Name of the Holy Trinity could be confusing to some in some settings. That may be a reason not to do it in some instances where doing so is not expressly prohibited or allowed. But that’s as far as it goes. Some have drawn their own conclusions from their own extensions (which carry absolutely no authority) yet they are offered as if they are Church mandates. That’s terribly wrong.

That’s simply not true. There are many things that take place in the Church within or outside of the different liturgies that are not in any way specifically (documented) allowed, yet they happen and they are licit.

You are assuming that just because something is not explicitly forbidden, that it is allowed. I am trying to point out that that is incorrect reasoning. As I have said, it does not explicitly forbidden the priest from doing a cartwheel on the altar during the consecration but just because it does not say that it can not be done, does not mean that it can be done. Same with blessings. Just because they are not explicitly forbidden, does not mean that they are allowed.

 

[Remington]

You are assuming that just because something is not explicitly forbidden, that it is allowed. I am trying to point out that that is incorrect reasoning. As I have said, it does not explicitly forbidden the priest from doing a cartwheel on the altar during the consecration but just because it does not say that it can not be done, does not mean that it can be done. Same with blessings. Just because they are not explicitly forbidden, does not mean that they are allowed.

I’m not making any such assumption. You mention reasoning yet it’s you that seems unable to sell me on a personal belief of yours. I asked if making the sign of the cross by a layperson while blessing someone in the name of the Holy Trinity is prohibited by the Church. It’s not. No doubt some would like it to be and no doubt that doing it in certain circumstance could possibly cause confusion, but it’s still not prohibited by the Church. The rest is just really personal opinions.

 

[Remington]

Check the Book of Blessings and you will find that in all instances, laity must say the prayer of blessing with hands joined (I merely gave one instance). Further, the CDWDS letter quoted in the moratorium section, while a private missive and holding no force of law save for the one to whom it was sent, clearly reflects the mindset of the CDWDS. Do I think laity should not make the sign of the cross over anyone/anything? Yes. Am I advocating that position here? NO. I am stating that within the context of a formal liturgy of the Church (whether Holy Mass, the Liturgy of the Hours, Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest, a blessing allowed by the Book of Blessings), laity are to say the prayer of blessing with hands joined and sign themselves at the dismissal.

By the way, “hands outstretched” is not the same as the ‘orans’. Check the Ceremonial of Bishops.

I didn’t ask that. I asked if the Church formally prohibits the practice. I am well aware that some really with that the Church did but She apparently does not.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I’m not making any such assumption. You mention reasoning yet it’s you that seems unable to sell me on a personal belief of yours. I asked if making the sign of the cross by a layperson while blessing someone in the name of the Holy Trinity is prohibited by the Church. It’s not. No doubt some would like it to be and no doubt that doing it in certain circumstance could possibly cause confusion, but it’s still not prohibited by the Church. The rest is just really personal opinions.

Where does the Church say that a lay person can make the sign of the cross over laypersons while blessing them in the name of the Trinity?