EMHC Purifying Vessels, how to approach priest?

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mattwcu

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This morning I was horrified to see something at daily mass, or at least I’m pretty sure I saw it. After Communion this morning the EMHC turned his back to the congregation and began wiping his “mini-chalice” clean. When he was done he put it on the table, put the folded cloth on top in the sanctuary and went back to his seat.

Is this technically “purifying” the vessel? Or is that done later? My understanding is that this was done during the mass and then finished up afterward in the sacristy.

Further, doesn’t this also excommunicate the person if they know not to do it?

I guess what I need help in doing is approaching the priest. I am new to this daily mass and attached to the Extraordinary Form so these types of liturgical abuses are kind of foreign to me.

I was thinking of first watching to see if it happened again and then speaking with the priest after mass, introducing myself, making pleasant conversation and then bringing up my concern. Is this the best way? Thoughts anyone?
 
I guess what I need help in doing is approaching the priest. I am new to this daily mass and attached to the Extraordinary Form so these types of liturgical abuses are kind of foreign to me.

These may not be liturgical abuses in themselves. Until you know for sure, it might be better to call them “practices”.
 
The action was a double whammy if I understand correctly from your post. First, the laypersons are not allowed to purify the vessels anymore. Second, when a vessel is going to be purified should be object of ablution first and wiping second.

I would encourage you to talk to the priest. In the past I have seen EMHCs doing wrong because of lack of proper training. Priests can be very receptive.
 
I did not see any ablution happen to this vessel, although I wasn’t paying attention to that because I just received. The EMHC had his back to the congregation but was obviously wiping.

Ok, so how serious is this? I remember hearing this is an excommincable offense, yes?
 
mattwcu said:
Ok, so how serious is this? I remember hearing this is an excommincable offense, yes?
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“In accordance with what is laid down by the canons, “one who throws away the consecrated species or takes them away or keeps them for a sacrilegious purpose, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; a cleric, moreover, may be punished by another penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state”. To be regarded as pertaining to this case is any action that is voluntarily and gravely disrespectful of the sacred species. Anyone, therefore, who acts contrary to these norms, for example casting the sacred species into the sacrarium or in an unworthy place or on the ground, incurs the penalties laid down.” (Redemptionis Sacramentum, n. 107)

Wiping the chalice with a purificator, while highly unorthodox and improper, does not fall into this category, since the purificator can still be properly cleansed and the Precious Blood disposed of in a reverent manner. HOWEVER, what this EMHC is doing is NOT RIGHT and needs to stop.

I hope your guardian angel is on good terms with the priest’s. You’ll need it. Purification of the sacred vessels is a touchy subject right now. EMHCs used to be allowed to do it, now they can’t, but many still do (because their bishops and priests haven’t “implemented” Redemptionis Sacramentum yet).
 
mattwcu said:
I did not see any ablution happen to this vessel, although I wasn’t paying attention to that because I just received. The EMHC had his back to the congregation but was obviously wiping.

Ok, so how serious is this? I remember hearing this is an excommincable offense, yes?
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You may want to speak to the priest first. I know bishops in some dioceses are giving parishes a deadline as to when EMHC are not allowed to purify vessels anymore. I was told by our pastor the deadline for our diocese was by Advent of 2008. I know the pope said that only the priests were allowed to purify the vessels but our pastor said our Archbishop wanted to have this implemented by advent.

I really don’t know why you’re worrying about it being an excommunicatable offense. Are you wanting this person excommunicated? It seems like a lot of people on the boards are always bringing up excommunication. “Most” catholics, especially people who serving in the lay ministry don’t do things on purpose to defy the Holy See. They are “mostly” errors of ignorance.
 
I’m not worried that this person is excommunicated. I agree most of these things that go on are due to ignorance and not out of defiance.

This is a tiny little daily mass and everyone there is very nice. Nobody seems (at least) to have some axe to grind with Church authority. I was just asking if it is.

I think I’ll bring it up tomorrow after mass and see what Father has to say. He probably doesn’t even realize how serious it is. I guess I just don’t want to be labeled a troublemaker especially when I just started attending this daily mass.

But this is the Precious Blood afterall, and its no different than that at my TLM parish.

@japhy:

Why is this touchy? If its not allowed then its not allowed…
 
mattwcu said:
This morning I was horrified to see something at daily mass, or at least I’m pretty sure I saw it. After Communion this morning the EMHC turned his back to the congregation and began wiping his “mini-chalice” clean. When he was done he put it on the table, put the folded cloth on top in the sanctuary and went back to his seat.

Is this technically “purifying” the vessel? Or is that done later? My understanding is that this was done during the mass and then finished up afterward in the sacristy.

Further, doesn’t this also excommunicate the person if they know not to do it?

I guess what I need help in doing is approaching the priest. I am new to this daily mass and attached to the Extraordinary Form so these types of liturgical abuses are kind of foreign to me.

I was thinking of first watching to see if it happened again and then speaking with the priest after mass, introducing myself, making pleasant conversation and then bringing up my concern. Is this the best way? Thoughts anyone?
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Sounds like an unintentional Oops-I-didn’t-think-about-that error that needs correction. Excommunication? Nah. Abuse? Doesn’t sound like it, rather a need for training/re-education.

Just do what you suggest, and ask privately. 👍
 
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that only priests will be able to purify the vessels. Does that mean that the Acolyte/Altar Server will not be able to purify these vessels anymore as well?
 
What do you do when you see a priest improperly purify the vessels?

My daughter is an altar server, and Father had her pour water in the chalice and he purified that properly, but he merely wiped the patin. AFTER the chalice was purified and not into the chalice. It shocked me, but I was also worried about particles of the Precious Body being lost into the carpet or on the tray.

And our Bishop has instituted Redemptionis Sacramentum. I have also already butted heads a little with this priest on an unrelated topic. I guess I need to see my pastor, huh…
 
Thunderbird said:
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that only priests will be able to purify the vessels. Does that mean that the Acolyte/Altar Server will not be able to purify these vessels anymore as well?
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Priests, Deacons and Instituted Acolytes are the only ones authorized to purify the vessels. Anyone else is not allowed.
 
Wow, that’s interesting… and I need to talk to my Pastor ASAP. I’m an ordinary altar server though we use the term Acolyte, non-instituted (can female Altar Servers even be instituted? Probably not). In any case, part of my job has always been to clean the chalice and get everything set up for the next service.

I wonder if this completely changes my role…
 
Yeah. It probably does. I wish we had some sort of guide to help laymen talk with priests about fixing these issues. It could be a sort of step by step. After all our goal in fixing these issues isn’t to offend anyone or exercise some sort of authority over them.
 
At our parish the altar servers ASSIST in the purification, pouring water into the vessels as directed by the priest, deacon, or acolyte. But the priest, deacon, or acolyte does the rest.

Is that correct?
 
Exactly. I don’t want to come off as this ultra pious, I-Know-More-Than-The-Pastor™ uberAco… Lord knows I certainly don’t know more than the Pastor… but at the same time, I don’t want to do something that I’m not supposed to. Especially if I know for a fact that I’m not supposed to do it.

I guess the best thing is to just bring it up casually, definitely not in front of others and certainly not with an air of authority. Any suggestions?

Also, didn’t mean to hijack the thread. 😃
 
mattwcu said:
japhy: Why is this touchy? If its not allowed then its not allowed…
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Perhaps because some priests and pastors don’t like having things like this pointed out to them. If no one else knows it’s illegal, there’s no reason for them to stop. It also “makes more work” for the priest, although the short amount of time it takes to properly purify the sacred vessels makes me wonder just how much “work” such a priest can really handle.

Also, if the excuse is used that there are so many sacred vessels that the priest needs a slew of assistants (read: EMHCs) to do it with/for him, then perhaps there shouldn’t be as many sacred vessels being used, eh?

And the other problem is that some priests, in addition to seeing this as “work”, see it as “washing the dishes”. I am not making that up. They refuse to see this is an act of reverence to the Most Blessed Sacrament.

That is why it’s a touchy issue.
 
Washing the dishes eh? Wow, what happened to the priests? (that’s rhetorical)

If the priest uses that phrase and attitude tomorrow then I probably won’t go back.
 
mattwcu said:
Washing the dishes eh? Wow, what happened to the priests? (that’s rhetorical) If the priest uses that phrase and attitude tomorrow then I probably won’t go back.
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That priest (pastor) is at the end of his term and is being relocated (where, I don’t know). His flock is upset about being required to have kneelers. He berates the Extraordinary Form of Mass.

It’s not a pretty sight.
 
japhy said:
Perhaps because some priests and pastors don’t like having things like this pointed out to them. If no one else knows it’s illegal, there’s no reason for them to stop. It also “makes more work” for the priest, although the short amount of time it takes to properly purify the sacred vessels makes me wonder just how much “work” such a priest can really handle.

Also, if the excuse is used that there are so many sacred vessels that the priest needs a slew of assistants (read: EMHCs) to do it with/for him, then perhaps there shouldn’t be as many sacred vessels being used, eh?

And the other problem is that some priests, in addition to seeing this as “work”, see it as “washing the dishes”. I am not making that up. They refuse to see this is an act of reverence to the Most Blessed Sacrament.

That is why it’s a touchy issue.
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That fires me up when I hear people say that!

“Where do I work today?” (while checking EMHC/reader/server schedules)

“I gotta do the dishes” (when asked if they want a ride to breakfast)
 
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