EMHC taking Host after Mass

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Panis_Angelicas

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I’ve observed different extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion in my parish getting Hosts to distribute after Mass in two different ways:


  1. *]Some approach with a pyx in the communion line, and Father places a Host or Hosts in the pyx.
    *]Some wait until after Mass. While Father is outside greeting the faithful, they open the tabernacle and remove Hosts for their pyxes.

    Which ~ or are both ~ of these methods acceptable?

    Pax Christi. <><
 
I am not an EMHC so I don’t know for sure.

The first scenario seems to be OK. The second one seems to be a major abuse.

At my parish, the EMHC(s) that will be distributing outside of Mass will bring their pyx to the sacristy before Mass. The priest will put in the required number of hosts at communion, and will give the pyx to the EMHC at the end of the communion.
 
It depends on the reason they are taking the Blessed Sacrament. If they are (most probable) taking Communion to a home bound person on a regualr basis. They should be “Sent” from the Assembly by the priest with the Blessed Sacrament.

If they are responding to an emergency request a EMHC could take a host from the tabernacle themselves. However it would be better if they would ask a Priest or Deacon for the Blessed Sacrament Since a Priest or Deacon is there and available.
 
At our parish, the Blessed Sacrement is given by the priest to the EM’s right after communion. If communion is being taken to the homebound, sometimes on sat. am, it is taken from the tabernacle (showing proper respect, of course) by the EM’s. Either method is OK by the priest.
 
AS a EMHC/Minister of the Sick I can explain the difference in my case.

If I am only going to see a homebound person right after Mass I will approach the priest with my pyx.

If I am going to the hospital where there is an large unknown number of people to receive I will wait until Mass is over with a large pyx and go to the tabernacle.

If I am only visiting one person and it isn’t immediately after Mass I will get the key to the tabernacle from the parish office right before visting the person and go to the tabernacle.

All of these situations are approved by both the priest and the Bishop (according to Archdiocese training materials.)

I say this is in my case because there are people that do not abide by the rules (i.e. taking the Eucharist for personal reasons, going somewhere other then directly to homebound person’s place, etc.)
 
If they are (most probable) taking Communion to a home bound person on a regualr basis. They should be “Sent” from the Assembly by the priest with the Blessed Sacrament.
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That’s what typically happens at my parish. The priest or the deacon after Communion will publicly call the EM forward and publicly send them to take the Sacrament to the homebound person.
 
If I am going to the hospital where there is an large unknown number of people to receive

Why would there ever be an unknown number of people for you to visit?

I suppose that there might be a chance that there might be one fewer person, if someone who was expecting you, unexpectedly slipped into a coma or died. But if they went home, they would have let you know. If someone had entered the hospital and they wanted you to visit, I’m sure they would have let you know that too.
 
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Fullsizesedan:
Why would there ever be an unknown number of people for you to visit?
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Because the number of people in the hospital varies day by day. Also the number of people that wish to recieve varies day by day. I have gone there on a Sunday where the nun in charge of the Ministry for the Sick said there was only a few people in the hospital and there were a lot more. Other times I have gone expecting a lot and there were only a few. One of the blessings of the Ministry of the Sick in the hospital is that you never know what will happen. It keeps you on your toes both spiritually and physically.

I always bring a lot, and plan on going at a time where I will have no problem returning any unused hosts to the tabernacle.
 
Well, I don’t see that the Church approves or disapproves of EMHC removing Hosts from the tabernacle, but for some reason, the laity reposing or removing the Blessed Sacrament just seems inappropriate.

I’ve seen in one parish where those who minister to the sick and homebound place their pyxes on a corporal near the tabernacle before the Mass, and the celebrant puts one Host in each pyx unless the EMHC leaves a slip of paper with a number on it. In that case, he leaves the specified number of Hosts, and then closes the pyxes.

This seems a much more appropriate. It just “looks” wrong to see a lay man or woman reaching his/her mitt into the tabernacle! Sorry…:o
 
Neither way is correct.

I am a EMHC and when we are to receive hosts to bring to the sick and housebound we always make sure to visit the sacristy about 5 mins before Mass. We inform Father of how many we are visiting he takes a pyx, places it on the Altar during Mass and then places the required number of hosts in it just after Holy Communion. He then brings the pyx back to the sacristy after Mass and we go there to receive the pyx from him.

We should never line up with a pyx in the Communion line, then the Blessed Sacrament is open to abuse. What if people want the host for sacreligous purposes? Once here in this Parish a woman was coming up for Communion with a pyx every day. One of our priests decided to visit the house and found the hosts everywhere. BE VIGILANT. Err on the side of caution always. But be careful not to cause public scandal. Very difficult to balance.

All EMHC should be very careful never to give a host into a pyn in a communion line. They should kindly ask the one carrying the pyx to come to the sacristy to see Father after Mass. Let the Priest give it out then if he will.

EMHC’s should not go to the tabernacle at all. They are not permitted inside or outside of Mass.

Blessings,
Fergal
Naas
 
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Fergal:
Neither way is correct.
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Sorry, what you are saying here is personal interpretation not church policy. There are ways to protect against abuse. In my parish, the only person that puts the Eucharist into the pyx during Mass is the priest and he knows who the Minister’s of the Sick are.
EMHC’s should not go to the tabernacle at all. They are not permitted inside or outside of Mass.
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Could you show where this is written?

EMHCs/Minister’s of the sick have to visit people at different times throughout the day. Once they receive the Eucharist the ONLY place they are supposed to go is directly to the place they are supposed to go. In my parish there are hundereds of people per week that need to be visited, if a priest was required to open the tabernacle every time a person needed to get the Eucharist they would be next to the Eucharist constantly.

If it was required that EMHCs got the Eucharist at Mass, how many more people would violate the rules about taking the Eucharist directly to the person receiving it?

Just because they require it in one format in your parish/diocese doesn’t make it policy.

I personally think people laying pyxes on the altar or some other location, the priest putting the Eucharist in it and then people going up to get the pyxes lends itself to more abuse. If the pyx is in the hand of the Eucharistic minister, the priest knows who is getting the Eucharist and can verify that the person is a Minister of the Sick. If he just sees Pyxes, how is he going to verify where it it supposed to go?

Methods of dealing with the Eucharist and the Minister of the Sick vary parish by parish, diocese by diocese.
 
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Fullsizesedan:
Why would there ever be an unknown number of people for you to visit?
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Also, some ministers of care visit nursing facilities where they will have a communion service. They almost never know how many will come to receive.
 
As I mentioned before, methods of distributing the Eucharist to EMHC/Minister of the Sick varies parish by parish and diocese by diocese.

Since Catholic Answers is located in San Diego, I found the Diocese of San Diego’s Guide for EMHCs. If you look at the bottom it contains guidelines for Distribution to the Sick and Homebound.

In it, there is mention of receiving the Eucharist into a pyx during Mass the EMHC should get the Eucharist immediately before “receiving Communion themselves”. There are also other methods mentioned…

Link (.pdf file)
 
I supervise the EMHC’s who visit the sick and homebound in our parish. The preferred method is that they come to the foot of the altar immediately after Communion. the Celebrant places the hosts in the pyx they hold and sends them forth. This preserves the symbolism of their mission as an extension of the mass. It also gives the EMHC’s a head start out of the Church and avoids any stopping and chatting.

On the other hand, problems arise. Due to family schedules someone has to go to mass on Saturday night and visits the sick on Sunday morning, or afternoon. For example I may have to attend the 10:30 mass for an RCIA rite so take communion to the sick at 9 am that Sunday. In that case the EMHC gets the necessary hosts from the Tabernacle.

HOWEVER - It is absolutely, and without exception, mandated that hosts be taken directly from the Church to the person who is to receive, and that any unused hosts be immediately returned to the Tabernacle. If there is any delay, the pyx containing the hosts should be kept in the Tabernacle.
 
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Marauder:
Sorry, what you are saying here is personal interpretation not church policy. There are ways to protect against abuse. In my parish, the only person that puts the Eucharist into the pyx during Mass is the priest and he knows who the Minister’s of the Sick are.

Could you show where this is written?

EMHCs/Minister’s of the sick have to visit people at different times throughout the day. Once they receive the Eucharist the ONLY place they are supposed to go is directly to the place they are supposed to go. In my parish there are hundereds of people per week that need to be visited, if a priest was required to open the tabernacle every time a person needed to get the Eucharist they would be next to the Eucharist constantly.

If it was required that EMHCs got the Eucharist at Mass, how many more people would violate the rules about taking the Eucharist directly to the person receiving it?

Just because they require it in one format in your parish/diocese doesn’t make it policy.

I personally think people laying pyxes on the altar or some other location, the priest putting the Eucharist in it and then people going up to get the pyxes lends itself to more abuse. If the pyx is in the hand of the Eucharistic minister, the priest knows who is getting the Eucharist and can verify that the person is a Minister of the Sick. If he just sees Pyxes, how is he going to verify where it it supposed to go?

Methods of dealing with the Eucharist and the Minister of the Sick vary parish by parish, diocese by diocese.
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I agree. Certainly there are liturgical problems in many places, but so often I am seeing terms like “major abuse” thrown around when the practice in question is far from forbidden. I get it–a lot of posters hate the idea of lay people going into the tabernacle. That doesn’t make it wrong or an abuse.
 
Because the number of people in the hospital varies day by day.
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You must be in a very large parish with a lot of older people who are in and out of the hospital.

I would think it would be easier to make your visits by appointment, easier for the patient as well to coordinate their other visitors, tests, etc.

But what do I know, you’re the one doing the job.
 
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Fortiterinre:
I agree. Certainly there are liturgical problems in many places, but so often I am seeing terms like “major abuse” thrown around when the practice in question is far from forbidden. I get it–a lot of posters hate the idea of lay people going into the tabernacle. That doesn’t make it wrong or an abuse.
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Well, I, for one, said that it “appears” irregular.
I never said it was an abuse. In fact, I asked for clarification.
I have seen no Magisterial documentation that laity reaching into the tabernacle is indeed approved.
All I’ve seen is that certain parishes or dioceses do it, and some don’t.
If it is not an abuse, could you tell me when it became acceptable for the laity to repose or remove the Blessed Sacrament from the tabernacle? There must be a Church statement somewhere, because a few years ago, no laity approached the tabernacle. Now EMHC’s do, in some parishes, quite regularly.

Also, regarding putting Hosts back into the tabernacle after visiting the sick: I’m quite certain that I read that the EMHC is to consume, not repose, the remaining Hosts.

Pax Christi. <><
 
Panis Angelicas:
If it is not an abuse, could you tell me when it became acceptable for the laity to repose or remove the Blessed Sacrament from the tabernacle? There must be a Church statement somewhere, because a few years ago, no laity approached the tabernacle. Now EMHC’s do, in some parishes, quite regularly.
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If it was prohibitted for EMHCs to approach the Tabernacle it would be stated so in the GIRM or RS. These documents were recently revised to specificly include things that deal with litergical abuses against the Eucharist. If it was a violation for laity to approach the tabernacle it would have been written there. If you search through numerous diocese guidelines for EMHCs/Minister of the Sick you will see lines similar to the following.
Archdiocese Training Materials:
  • It is most appropriate for extraordinary ministers to the sick to be sent directly from the Sunday celebration of the eucharist.** Recognizing that this is not always possible, the minister is to follow the guidelines established in the parish.**
  • Communion should be taken to the sick in an appropriate sacred vessel. A worthy, yet inexpensive, pyx can be purchased at a religious goods store.
  • **When it is necessary for the minister to the sick to approach the tabernacle to obtain the hosts(s), it should be done shortly before the visit to the sick or homebound and in a spirit of prayer and reverence. Genuflection is the appropriate gesture of reverence before the reserved sacrament. **
  • The ritual found in “Holy Communion and Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass” is followed by the extraordinary minister.
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Also, regarding putting Hosts back into the tabernacle after visiting the sick: I’m quite certain that I read that the EMHC is to consume, not repose, the remaining Hosts.
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This is one of those areas that is sort of a grey area. The rules allow for this but it is in escence a violation of another rule that says that nobody except for the priest is supposed to self-communicate. If the EMHC consumes the remaining hosts they are self-communicating. It is allowed in some dioceses for a few reasons:
  1. Sometimes it may be impossible to return the sacrament to the Tabernacle i.e. nobody with keys to church/tabernacle around. (This is never an issue in my parish, but it can be in some parishs.)
  2. To prevent possible abuse of the Eucharist. Since the Minister of the Sick are in the world, you never know what can happen between where they are going and the return.
Officially this shouldn’t be an issue for the “routine” Minister of the Sick because they are only supposed to take exactly the right number of hosts to see their “wards” but it is an issue for those that go to hospitals and nursing homes since the number at those locations varies.

Since I am a EMHC and Minister of the Sick I have closely studied the rules pertaining to all parts of the ministry. If things were a violation I wouldn’t do them. Just having a feeling that something is a violation or the practice is a violation in your diocese doesn’t make it universally so.
 
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Fullsizesedan:
You must be in a very large parish with a lot of older people who are in and out of the hospital.

I would think it would be easier to make your visits by appointment, easier for the patient as well to coordinate their other visitors, tests, etc.

But what do I know, you’re the one doing the job.
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Actually I am part of a real large parish, but the hospital we go to is a small community hospital. Due to the nature of a hospital you never know who will be admitted in emergency circumstances and who will be discharged early or late.

Also, due to the nature of the ministry you never know who will want to receive on one day and who won’t some people don’t realize that you can receive every day. MOST people wouldn’t go out of their way to schedule trips, but if there is someone there they are more then willing to partake.

Also some people may not be able to receive one day (i.e. taking tests, sleeping, in state of sin) but not the same thing the next day. (Just to clarify for the nit pickers, state of sin removed because of a priest visiting.)
 
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Marauder:
Just having a feeling that something is a violation or the practice is a violation in your diocese doesn’t make it universally so.
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What I was hoping for, and what isn’t going to happen (I don’t think) is some concrete documentation from Rome that the laity are permitted to access or repose the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle.

I realize that my feelings don’t make such an action an abuse, nor approved, and that is why I look to the Church for clarification.

This still seems to be a grey area. The Church has not officially spoken on it. Silence isn’t the same as permission.

The practices of an archdiocese, or several archdioceses, still doesn’t carry with it the same weight as the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline in the Sacraments.

Redemptionis Sacramentum doesn’t begin to address all abuses, but the most widely committed, most frequently reported, and most grave ones, imho.

If, in fact, it was alway improper for the laity to reach into the tabernacle, then I ask, “when did it become ‘proper’ to do so?” Did someone just decide that, because of logistics, this method would be acceptable now? I don’t mean to belabor the point, and I’m not saying “Alert! Alert! Grave abuse going on here!!!”

I am merely asking for clarification and substantiation from the one authority which could make such a determination. Apparently, such a statement doesn’t exist? So one may “assume” that it is now appropriate, or may “assume” that it still is not…

The examples you’ve given are all very understandable. Thank you for your time and expertise in explaining some of the intricacies of ministering to the sick.

My first job, in fact, was working in our little local hospital.

Many patients were admitted and discharged each day.

Some might list “Catholic” as their faith, even though they’d not darkened the doors of the Church in years.

The population of a hospital changes greatly day-to-day.

Plus, some of the patients have doctor’s orders for liquid diet, or nothing by mouth, fasting before tests, etc, which, after their condition improves, such orders are lifted.

Not having an exact number of Hosts in mind to take to a hospital is entirely understandable. Why, you probably couldn’t call the switchboard and get the number of Catholic in-patients, and have that number be the same by the time you arrived with the Hosts.

Pax Christi. <><
 
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