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FredM

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Why is it that Extraordinary Members of Holy Communion get to dress in their Sunday whatever clothes at Mass and the acolytes vest in albs?

Seems to me the acolytes are out of place, in their nice white albs with jeans and flip flops showing underneath. They would look more natural as street people.

I used to think that street clothing was disrespectful but I’m trying to get over that and see the majesty in having a lay person in street clothes at the tabernacle.

Fred
 
Sunday best!!🙂 Everyone that is baptized could wear an alb, there is nothing special to it. The EMHCs usually are in the pews until it comes to assist the priest, and sitting there in an alb might look a little bit strange. In the case of acolytes it is nice to have a specific attire like the altar servers. Showing jeans and flip-flops is not reverent independently of the ministry. The EMHCs are not to attract attention to themselves but they are expected to wear a reverent and dignified but modest attire.
 
FredM said:
Why is it that Extraordinary Members of Holy Communion get to dress in their Sunday whatever clothes at Mass and the acolytes vest in albs?

Seems to me the acolytes are out of place, in their nice white albs with jeans and flip flops showing underneath. They would look more natural as street people.

I used to think that street clothing was disrespectful but I’m trying to get over that and see the majesty in having a lay person in street clothes at the tabernacle.

Fred
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I’m not really sure about the exact sentiments expressed here, but here’s my general two cents:

*Everyone *should be in his or her Sunday best for Sunday Mass. I’ll go for mitigated standards on weekdays (unless they are solemnities), but dressing nicely is a way to show respect for Our Lord. That goes for servers, too. There seems to be a general impression that the cassock/alb hides the clothes underneath so it doesn’t matter what one wears but a) you can generally tell from shoes and hems whether someone is dressed up underneath vestments and b) the dressing up is for God, not for others who will see it.
 
That is because EMHC’s are a man made invention to try and get more participation in the Mass. Ideally we would have Alcolytes who would be there to distribute the Eucharist. But somehow this has been downplayed, since women are not allowed to be Alcolytes to not be excluded and give out the Eucharist.

This is not out of obedience or reverence to Jesus but rather out of the sense of entitlement that has come into our culture. Rather than be content in worshipping God people want to feel like they are participating in a visual way, to elevate themselves and feel good.

We need to return to an attitude of looking for what God wants and not what we want to do. The less people getting their own attention at Mass, the better. Our focus should be on God not on putting 30 people up there with the Choir the nuns and anybody else. /rant

In Christ
Scylla
 
FredM said:
Why is it that Extraordinary Members of Holy Communion get to dress in their Sunday whatever clothes at Mass and the acolytes vest in albs?

Seems to me the acolytes are out of place, in their nice white albs with jeans and flip flops showing underneath. They would look more natural as street people.

I used to think that street clothing was disrespectful but I’m trying to get over that and see the majesty in having a lay person in street clothes at the tabernacle.

Fred
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Acolytes wear albs or cassoks and surpluses because they are(were) a minor order.
They were not considered lay-people (I think, correct me if I’m wrong, people…), but on the road to the deaconary, and then the priesthood.

We are just continuing that tradition (kind of) by making altar servers and acolytes wear vestments.

Also, it creates deep sentiments of sacredness when one has to wear different clothes to assist in the worship of God.
 
scylla said:
That is because EMHC’s are a man made invention to try and get more participation in the Mass. Ideally we would have Alcolytes who would be there to distribute the Eucharist. But somehow this has been downplayed, since women are not allowed to be Alcolytes to not be excluded and give out the Eucharist.

This is not out of obedience or reverence to Jesus but rather out of the sense of entitlement that has come into our culture. Rather than be content in worshipping God people want to feel like they are participating in a visual way, to elevate themselves and feel good.

We need to return to an attitude of looking for what God wants and not what we want to do. The less people getting their own attention at Mass, the better. Our focus should be on God not on putting 30 people up there with the Choir the nuns and anybody else. /rant

In Christ
Scylla
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Dear Rant,

In all Christian charity, I totally disagree as an EMHC, that I volunteer my service for elevation of myself or any personal feel good intentions. As any ministry offered by the Church, there are those that will and those that will b****. In a parish with 1600 families, many of of whom homebound, in hospitals, etc, would not be able to receive the Holy Eucharist in the frequency that they do. Many EMHC spend there time, there own transportation and gas to offer the Blessed Sacrament. If extra priests, deacons, or instituted acolyte are available, I gladly submit to them to distribute the Holy Sacrament. Yes, I wish we had communion rails, and yes I wish we would all receive on our knees. But we don’t so EMHC are sometimes necessary. I often wonder if people really oppose EMHC or oppose being left out of the process. EMHC’s do not control the Bishops who do not institute acolyte’s or the teaching that they must be males. I am sorry if my ministry as EMHC is contrary to your beliefs. As far as God’s intentions, I believe he put that trust in the hands of the Pope, Holy See, and Bishops who, by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, guides their teachings.
 
If you do bring communion to the homebound then I support you that is the appropriate role of an EMHC. Acolytes are the appropriate position to assist Priests in distributing the Eucharist.

Speaking from your own personal experience does not change the fact that service of God is first, and that many do not do it for that reason. You seem to have the appropriate understanding of an EMHC, which is not to be up on the Altar, minimally distributing the Holy Eucharist at Mass, only when absolutely necessary and primarily to distribute to the homebound\sick. I agree with your presentation which is not how the majority of EMHC’s see their service or perform it. They should always refuse to serve if it would be an abuse.

We are not the Bishops, yet we can influence them by our obedience to God. By serving in our roles properly we influence others a great deal.

My personal beliefs are to put God first and everyone should be of one mind to exterminate the attitude of self worship which is propagated by laity and clergy in the Church today. We should have the least laity as possible on the Altar and the utmost focus on God.

I do not disagree with your description of EMHC’s as that is an appropriate position for them to serve.

What would be better as an EMHC would be to spend time encouraging vocations and piety. Training young boys to serve properly at Mass, training others toward proper respect for God and correcting abuses that offend God demeaning the meaning of the Mass.

In Christ
Scylla
 
scylla said:
I I agree with your presentation which is not how the majority of EMHC’s see their service or perform it. They should always refuse to serve if it would be an abuse.
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How do you know that the majority of the EMHC’s see their service in pure self interest? :mad:

I was asked to undergo trainig by our director of liturgy (or a similar name) and I accepted with honor. After that, one night I woke up in panic realizing that I was not worthy of that task. I went to confession and I asked my priest if there was a need for more EMHCs because I wanted to serve but I did not feel good about the whole thing. He told me that God gave me the dignity to do it and that I could not reject His gift. He told me that it was my responsibility to become an EMHC. After that I went through the training and the other few people that I met there are people that served in the Church for the longest time as catechists, social ministries, etc. None of them appeared to do it for self-importance, and the same appears for most if not all the other EMHC that I see serving every Sunday.

I believe that all the lay people must obey the Church with humility, and that it means the priests, the bishops, and the Holy Father. When we see an abuse first we must look at it with charity, and then we can ask for explanations. I see too often in this forum the opinion that the first thing to do is to disobey the priest as soon as we se an abuse. That is not a great example for our boys, the future priests. That is why moral relativism keeps affecting everybody, sometime even including priests and bishops.
 
Wouldnt have to worry about this problem if we learned from our mistakes and scrapped the EMHCs.
 
This thread is as objectionable to me as the one on Married couples recieving communion together.

I have no problem for the proper use of EMHC. But this OP is beyond that.

EMHC overkill at my parish. Priests sitting in the back watching the Mass and greeting the ones leaving. At least the EMHC’s at my parish are not wearing flip flops yet. Or jeans. Or singing U2.

Deacons not up there.

I dunno. Its a bit too much for me. Call me old fashioned.
 
Caesar said:
Wouldnt have to worry about this problem if we learned from our mistakes and scrapped the EMHCs.
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I clearly cannot understand or see why you think that EMHC are problems and need to be scrapped. Is every EMHC perfect - NO. They have receive a blessing to serve a ministry that OUR Church teaches, when necessary, their services are required. Do we need a choir? Do we need ushers? CCD teachers? Please, let’s scrapped all and allow our priest, who have nothing to do, pickup these duties.
 
Damascus said:
This thread is as objectionable to me as the one on Married couples recieving communion together.

I have no problem for the proper use of EMHC. But this OP is beyond that.

EMHC overkill at my parish. Priests sitting in the back watching the Mass and greeting the ones leaving. At least the EMHC’s at my parish are not wearing flip flops yet. Or jeans. Or singing U2.

Deacons not up there.

I dunno. Its a bit too much for me. Call me old fashioned.
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Original Quote by FredM: Why is it that Extraordinary Members of Holy Communion get to dress in their Sunday whatever clothes at Mass and the acolytes vest in albs?

Seems to me the acolytes are out of place, in their nice white albs with jeans and flip flops showing underneath. They would look more natural as street people.

I used to think that street clothing was disrespectful but I’m trying to get over that and see the majesty in having a lay person in street clothes at the tabernacle.

Fred

EMHC dress in accordance with the guidance and direction of the priest and dioceses policy. Instituted Acolytes dress in accordance with the General Instructions of the Missal and other church documents.

Damascus but this Op is beyond that! Beyond what? EMHC dress at Mass? Your priest/deacons not complying with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and the Instruction on the Eucharist? If, in fact, this is the standard practice at your Church, please don’t blame the EMHC’s, talk to the priest that allows church teachings/rubrics to be violated. Why allow it to hinder your participation in Mass if you are so disappointed?
 
I was invited to serve as an EMHC also, I turned it down and went to serve as a Catechist instead, I also run a Bible Study in my parish. The Catechists are there hopefully training tomorrows young men on the road to be Holy Priests. The Choir elevates the Mass to the Sacred which should focus on God.
EMHC’ s have their own place in this and they rarely do anything about it.
We have about 12 EMHC’s only one of them takes the Eucharist to the Homebound. There is absolutely no need for them in my parish when we can wait about 10 more minutes in prayer as the Priest distributes the Eucharist.

There is no need for the position at Mass if there are men who are EMHC’s, they can always become Acolytes which is the proper position of service to the community for distributing the Eucharist.

We don’t need EMHC’s as priest’s can certainly do the job. If a parish does not have a priest it is not doing it’s job in fostering vocations for the priesthood. That is another thread, but I will point out that there is no vocations shortage for the priesthood, just a shortage of priests at the moment.
Dissidents do not want Holy Priests, they want everyone participating as a priesthood, completely mis-understanding the meaning of the universal priesthood. This makes for a shortage of Priests which eventually leads to the appointing of EMHC’s.

They should be removed as soon as possible as we focus more on fostering good Holy Men to the Priesthood. That should be one huge focus of each of us in the laity and especially as people involved in the Parish. Anyone not for that is then for the focus of the Mass on themselves, I have not seen one EMHC who is actively focused on this, that is why I have that point of view. How much are the EMHC’s in your parish actively focusing on raising young men to the priesthood?

In Christ
Scylla
 
scylla said:
I was invited to serve as an EMHC also, I turned it down and went to serve as a Catechist instead, I also run a Bible Study in my parish. The Catechists are there hopefully training tomorrows young men on the road to be Holy Priests. The Choir elevates the Mass to the Sacred which should focus on God.
EMHC’ s have their own place in this and they rarely do anything about it.
We have about 12 EMHC’s only one of them takes the Eucharist to the Homebound. There is absolutely no need for them in my parish when we can wait about 10 more minutes in prayer as the Priest distributes the Eucharist.

There is no need for the position at Mass if there are men who are EMHC’s, they can always become Acolytes which is the proper position of service to the community for distributing the Eucharist.

We don’t need EMHC’s as priest’s can certainly do the job. If a parish does not have a priest it is not doing it’s job in fostering vocations for the priesthood. That is another thread, but I will point out that there is no vocations shortage for the priesthood, just a shortage of priests at the moment.
Dissidents do not want Holy Priests, they want everyone participating as a priesthood, completely mis-understanding the meaning of the universal priesthood. This makes for a shortage of Priests which eventually leads to the appointing of EMHC’s.

They should be removed as soon as possible as we focus more on fostering good Holy Men to the Priesthood. That should be one huge focus of each of us in the laity and especially as people involved in the Parish. Anyone not for that is then for the focus of the Mass on themselves, I have not seen one EMHC who is actively focused on this, that is why I have that point of view. How much are the EMHC’s in your parish actively focusing on raising young men to the priesthood?

In Christ
Scylla
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Personally speaking, I have talked to many young man about the priesthood. My wife and I also offer a scholarship to aid, at least one individual to start college. One advantage of being an EMHC is seeing the Altar Servers after Mass, communicating with them on what went right or wrong, and thanking them for their service. However, most are girls so priesthood is out of the question. Many of our EMHC are also Lector, Bible Study support groups, serve in the choir, Catholic Charities, Eucharistic Adoration Team Leaders, LifeTeen, Parents for Life, Sacristan, St. Vincent de Paul, Altar Servers Formation, and CCD teachers. Most are the primary volunteers at each special event. Please pray for us, we try to assist when and if needed.
 
CRW said:
Original Quote by FredM: Why is it that Extraordinary Members of Holy Communion get to dress in their Sunday whatever clothes at Mass and the acolytes vest in albs?

Seems to me the acolytes are out of place, in their nice white albs with jeans and flip flops showing underneath. They would look more natural as street people.

I used to think that street clothing was disrespectful but I’m trying to get over that and see the majesty in having a lay person in street clothes at the tabernacle.

Fred

EMHC dress in accordance with the guidance and direction of the priest and dioceses policy. Instituted Acolytes dress in accordance with the General Instructions of the Missal and other church documents.

Damascus but this Op is beyond that! Beyond what? EMHC dress at Mass? Your priest/deacons not complying with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and the Instruction on the Eucharist? If, in fact, this is the standard practice at your Church, please don’t blame the EMHC’s, talk to the priest that allows church teachings/rubrics to be violated. Why allow it to hinder your participation in Mass if you are so disappointed?
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Dont put words in my big mouth please!

I did not see the Majesty in his last scentence!
Did you?
I must have missed something big here.
Lets take another step back here and realize that this issue has been in posts here almost every day since who knows how long.

I stand by my comments. If you dont agree with me, thats fine. You dont have to. Heck- just look around you and the confusion that is going on all over the place in matters of the Mass. Dont blame me. Its just a sad state of affairs that there is such a free for all going on everywhere you look.
I repeat- proper use is fine with me!
But people cant agree on proper use can they?
 
CRW, your parish is much different then than the majority of Parishes except for the Altar Girl thing, which isn’t too big a deal. Those girls should be encouraged to look at vocations such as Nuns or Religious. That way they would be encouraged to deepen their faith instead of discouraged by someone who says they shouldn’t be up there. Learning about their faith is the best you can do especially when people misguide young children. I allow my daughter to participate in the choir even though they sing crummy songs, hopefully we will have a concert soon as that is all the sappy type songs are good for.
I would sure like to see my daughter perform and get more confidence in singing, so I encourage her to sing and pray that we might have small concerts someday.

Too bad the boys are not up there serving at your parish, we have several in our liberal parish, who serve and now a couple who read.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Nekic said:
Acolytes wear albs or cassoks and surpluses because they are(were) a minor order.
They were not considered lay-people (I think, correct me if I’m wrong, people…), but on the road to the deaconary, and then the priesthood.

We are just continuing that tradition (kind of) by making altar servers and acolytes wear vestments.

Also, it creates deep sentiments of sacredness when one has to wear different clothes to assist in the worship of God.
Click to expand...
I don’t recall if they are considered lay-men. But I know for a fact that acolytes are not a minor order.

The minor order are the Deacons, the major order are the priests.

And by the way I think its Diaconate not Deaconry.

👍
 
Acolyte is one of the ancient minor orders supressed by Paul VI.
Acolytes were laymen since only bishops, priests, deacons, and formerly subdeacons are considered clergy.

BTW seeing EMHCs in the glory of their street-clothes standing majestically by the tabernacle is just plain vulgarity, and it makes me want to throw up.:eek: :eek: :eek: :mad:
 
Cristiano said:
Sunday best!!🙂 Everyone that is baptized could wear an alb, there is nothing special to it. The EMHCs usually are in the pews until it comes to assist the priest, and sitting there in an alb might look a little bit strange. In the case of acolytes it is nice to have a specific attire like the altar servers. Showing jeans and flip-flops is not reverent independently of the ministry. The EMHCs are not to attract attention to themselves but they are expected to wear a reverent and dignified but modest attire.
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Half the priests out there, especially Franciscans it seems, wear flipflops anyways, though not usually jeans as well 😉
 
In my parish, where I am an EMHC, the EMHC’s always wear suits, dresses, or skirts. The rest of the parishioners, other than the readers and ushers who also dress the same as the EMHC’s, usually wear jeans or in the summer wear shorts. I don’t know about your parish, but in mine, only the EMHC’s, readers and ushers dress up. Everybody else looks like they are at a ball game or picnic.
 
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