EMHC's and Communion

[yessisan]

Yessian,just wanted to add that I think your questioning is appropriate. The Church here in America seems to have lots of liturgical abuses going on along with many liberal nuns and priest who would confuse the Pope. So be obedient to the Church and only good things will come from it. God Bless you on your journey I will keep you in my prays.

Kathleen

Thanks Kathleen! I just wish all followed the correct way. Sooner or later we all will.

 

[yessisan]

You are in my prayers, as is your husband, yessisan. I hope you get a convalidation.

Hope the process is not long. I’ve been waiting for 4 months now (I’m doing a radical sanation because a convalidation is against DH’s religious beliefs)…

People here can be quick to judge, but remember you must act according to the laws of the Church and your conscience.

They are right that this issue has been raised already, however.

I know it has, but like all people, I wanted suggestions

When I returned to the Church 13 yrs ago, I was unable to receive the Eucharist because of my marriage situation. I went through the annulment process, which took a long time, but in the mean time, I’d sit in the pew during Communion and cry. My friends, returning from Communion, would tap me on the shouldrs & say “I received for you”. I have never forgot their compassion and mercy.l I know look around at Communion time for those remaining behind, I receive for them, and I PRAY FOR THEM. Please pray for them, so many prayed for me.

That was so thoughtful of your friends. Sometimes during Commuinion I kneel, pray and cry, but I know that if God wants me to have this marriage be a valid Catholic marriage, that He will allow this sanation to be granted. If it doesn’t get granted, then that means He didn’t want it to be. Maybe He has different plans for me and DH (which I’m hoping his return to the CC are included in those plans).

Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[Godfollower]

. . . I know that EMHC’s are not allowed to bless others or distribute the Eucharist when a priest is present. . . .

I might be reading this comment incorrectly, but, just in case, I thought I should say that, yes, EMHCs can distribute the Eucharist, whether or not a priest is present (if there’s a need for them due to a high congregant/clergy ratio). Distributing the Eucharist is the whole point of having EMHCs.

And don’t worry about staying in the pews; we all do from time to time, and no one is supposed to ask why. That usher was way out of line.

 

[kell0618]

the Parish I attend allows Eucharistic Ministers to give the Eucharist and bless the congregation. If and when the time comes for me to receive coummunion, how can I do it if the EM’s are the ones distributing it?

I suggest that when you are able to receive the Eucharist, if you prefer to receive from a priest, be certain to sit in a row where the priest usually serves near. You will easily be able to get into his line. The Vatican document, “An Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of the Priest” is very clear.

“Extraordinary ministers may distribute Holy Communion at eucharistic celebrations only when there are no ordained ministers present or when those ordained ministers present at a liturgical celebration are truly unable to distribute Holy Communion. They may also exercise this function at eucharistic celebrations where there are particularly large numbers of the faithful and which would be excessively prolonged because of an insufficient number of ordained ministers to distribute Holy Communion.”

and

"To avoid creating confusion, certain practices are to be avoided and eliminated where such have emerged in particular Churches:

• extraordinary ministers receiving Holy Communion apart from the other faithful as though concelebrants;
• association with the renewal of promises made by priests at the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday, as well as other categories of faithful who renew religious vows or receive a mandate as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion;
• the habitual use of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion at Mass thus arbitrarily extending the concept of “a great number of the faithful”."

and I would also like to note the following in regard to EMEs giving blessings:

blessings are given by priests (who have the power of the keys), though some are reserved to bishops (high priests). Deacons may also bless, but only where the ritual books, and thus the Church, provide the authority by law. Since the laity do not possess spiritual authority in the Church they cannot confer blessings.

  So, the blessing of anyone by an EME at Communion time is a vain gesture, which does nothing for the recipient.         Furthermore, by a gesture which suggests priestly authority in a sacramental         setting, it confuses the role of the laity and the ordained minister which is prohibited.

Having said that, the Eucharist is still the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and remains so even if in the hands of an EME. Christ does not disappear regardless of who distributes the Eucharist. And though the blessing is improper, it is done so with positive intentions through great ignorance. Please contact your Diocese and let them know off the violations involved. Perhaps you can begin the tide of change at your parish.

Dominus vobiscum,

Kelly

 

[yessisan]

I might be reading this comment incorrectly, but, just in case, I thought I should say that, yes, EMHCs can distribute the Eucharist, whether or not a priest is present (if there’s a need for them due to a high congregant/clergy ratio). Distributing the Eucharist is the whole point of having EMHCs.

And don’t worry about staying in the pews; we all do from time to time, and no one is supposed to ask why. That usher was way out of line.

I misread that part, but the blessing should be left only to the priests

 

[mercygate]

That’s exactly what I do… but you know, I have a paper at home that says EMHC’s can’t bless others. In big bold letters it says : “The Pope Says NO!”. Because I don’t have it with me, I can’t say what it states, but I can post it later on today so people see I’m not nuts…

I rather move out of the way and let people by. When they all get in line for communion, I get back to the pew and just ask God to help DH come back to the CC and if it’s His will, that my marriage can be valid in the eyes of the CC soon.

yessisan: you have NO idea how much grace is conveyed to you by your beautiful simplicity and humility. God will reward you for your patience.

 

[mercygate]

Well said and thank you!

I just wanted people’s opinion on how to react to this, but now I’m just going to ignore it and keep on doing what I do. Move to the side and let others by (probably sitting at the end so I don’t even disrupt the lining up) until I am able to receive it again… I don’t feel like a “complete” Catholic w/o the Eucharist. It’s sad I can’t receive it. But to tell you the truth, I feel I appreciate it more because I cannot receive it. Now I know (more than ever) what it really means to a true Catholic to be able to take part in the Body of Christ.

I have heard it said that desire for the Eucharist is one of the most powerful and efficacious forms of penance. You can offer this for all those who cannot receive the Sacrament, particularly for those who cannot receive it because of willful acts that have separated them from the Church. for you and all in your position.

 

[mercygate]

He actually asked why I wasn’t going up… so said I couldn’t.

The USHER asked why you weren’t going!! :bigyikes: :banghead: (OK, maybe he thought you couldln’t walk that far or something: just trying to find an excuse for him/her). More people (who have been chewing gum or drinking coffee in the car on the way to church or who are contracepting or who are in irregular marriages) should do what you are doing. Oi.

 

[MusicMan]

That’s exactly what I do… but you know, I have a paper at home that says EMHC’s can’t bless others. In big bold letters it says : “The Pope Says NO!”. Because I don’t have it with me, I can’t say what it states, but I can post it later on today so people see I’m not nuts…

I rather move out of the way and let people by. When they all get in line for communion, I get back to the pew and just ask God to help DH come back to the CC and if it’s His will, that my marriage can be valid in the eyes of the CC soon.

I think you have found the answer to this quandry yourself. I recommend you continue to do the above. It’s the right thing to do and you know it.

 

[KatieD]

I will be praying for you, yessisan. My husband and I also had to wait for a convalidation, and the wait can be painful. It was not the usher’s place to ask you why you weren’t going up to receive - it’s none of his business, and I think he was out of line. By the way, my husband is not Catholic and attends Mass with me each week. Our solution is that we sit on the end of the pew so that he can turn to the side or step off to the side for people to either leave or enter the pew (depending on which end we sit on). Congratulations on taking steps to be able to receive. Once you are able to receive the Eucharist again you will feel such joy!

 

[otjm]

and I would also like to note the following in regard to EMEs giving blessings:

You mad a citation but did not cite the source; could you do so pleasse? It is my udnerstanding that the laity do have the ability to give a blessing; I am not sure how widely that ghoes, but certainly parents have the ability to give their children a blessing.

It may well be that EMHCs do not have the ability to give a blessing; or it may be that we are talking about several different things here. Your source would help. [kell0618;1929138]Furthermore, by a gesture which suggests priestly authority in a sacramental setting, it confuses the role of the laity and the ordained minister which is prohibited.\QUOTE]Again, the poster did not say what gesture, if any, the EMHCs use, and it does not automatically go that any gesture results in confusion of priestly authority.

The reference the OP gave was to the use of the Host to bless the individual (which the connected thread said was forbidden), but the OP then took that to mean any other gesture. Perhaps we have mixed our questions and answers.

 

[Cristiano]

I don’t know who you are to judge me , I was asking a simple question and I know that EMHC’s are not allowed to bless others or distribute the Eucharist when a priest is present. I have been “blessed” by EMHC’s before and now know I cannot do that because it is against Church rules.

The fact that I cannot receive communion is not what I was inquiring about. If you really want to know why I can’t is because DH refuses to marry under the CC! Something that I am correcting already! So please, instead of coming to posts to judge people, just stick to the question.

I don’t appreciate your judgements, especially since I do not know you and you did not know why I can’t receive the Eucharist!

I do not judge you because it is not my place to do so. It is also not my place to ask you why you cannot receive communion, and I did not. You do not have any reason to tell us, we have just to take you word for it. However, you showed a lot of inner strenght in telling us so and I will pray that your husband will have a change of heart. My personal feeling is that the situation you find yourself in is one of the most gut wrenching because you want to do what pleases God and it would be much easier if the spouse would show support and cooperate.

Going back to the behavor of some EMHCs, I have seen some that give blessing out of ignorance (I now that as a fact because I discused that with them), and I also have the bad feeling that some might do it out of self importance. Either way it is an illicit behavior and the pastor should address it. We do not render a service to God by leaving people to dwell in ignorance, and it is better to bring it up instead of leaving the parish.

Now I am going to say something that will probably upset you and I do not know how to be delicate about it. So I will be straightforward and speak out. You mentioned that you are a catechist. My understanding is that as in the case of EMHCs, readers, cantors, catholic school teachers, etc. you should be fully reconciled and in good standing with the Church in order to do that. Again I am not judging you, and I feel uncomfortable to tell you this but I see it as my duty.

Who am I to tell you all this? I am someone that constantly struggles with sin especially in my thoughts, in my words, in what I do and in what I fail to do. I just want to know that I cannot read your heart but it seems to me that it is filled of love for God and that you are trying to do what is right. I can just pray for you and the rest of us to keep fighting for what is good.

Again I am sorry if I upset you with my words but I am talking about the behaviors, and I do not question for a second your intent or charity.

 

[yessisan]

I do not judge you because it is not my place to do so. It is also not my place to ask you why you cannot receive communion, and I did not. You do not have any reason to tell us, we have just to take you word for it. However, you showed a lot of inner strenght in telling us so and I will pray that your husband will have a change of heart. My personal feeling is that the situation you find yourself in is one of the most gut wrenching because you want to do what pleases God and it would be much easier if the spouse would show support and cooperate.

Going back to the behavor of some EMHCs, I have seen some that give blessing out of ignorance (I now that as a fact because I discused that with them), and I also have the bad feeling that some might do it out of self importance. Either way it is an illicit behavior and the pastor should address it. We do not render a service to God by leaving people to dwell in ignorance, and it is better to bring it up instead of leaving the parish.

Now I am going to say something that will probably upset you and I do not know how to be delicate about it. So I will be straightforward and speak out. You mentioned that you are a catechist. My understanding is that as in the case of EMHCs, readers, cantors, catholic school teachers, etc. you should be fully reconciled and in good standing with the Church in order to do that. Again I am not judging you, and I feel uncomfortable to tell you this but I see it as my duty.

Who am I to tell you all this? I am someone that constantly struggles with sin especially in my thoughts, in my words, in what I do and in what I fail to do. I just want to know that I cannot read your heart but it seems to me that it is filled of love for God and that you are trying to do what is right. I can just pray for you and the rest of us to keep fighting for what is good.

Again I am sorry if I upset you with my words but I am talking about the behaviors, and I do not question for a second your intent or charity.

Cristiano,

Thanks for clarifying your OP and sorry if I misunderstood you. As for the catechist thing, the Pastor knows who I am and still lets me give the classes. I wasn’t aware that to teach the faith I have to be in good standing or fully reconciled w/God. Maybe the fact that I am correcting my invalid marriage is why he’s allowing it?? I do not know, but thanks for your concern. I will certainly ask the leader of the Latino Ministry (who’s in charge of the Latino Catechism as well) to see if I should step aside or continue what I am doing.

God bless!!

 

[yessisan]

I suggest that when you are able to receive the Eucharist, if you prefer to receive from a priest, be certain to sit in a row where the priest usually serves near. You will easily be able to get into his line. The Vatican document, “An Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of the Priest” is very clear.

and

and I would also like to note the following in regard to EMEs giving blessings:

So, the blessing of anyone by an EME at Communion time is a vain gesture, which does nothing for the recipient. Furthermore, by a gesture which suggests priestly authority in a sacramental setting, it confuses the role of the laity and the ordained minister which is prohibited.

Having said that, the Eucharist is still the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ and remains so even if in the hands of an EME. Christ does not disappear regardless of who distributes the Eucharist. And though the blessing is improper, it is done so with positive intentions through great ignorance. Please contact your Diocese and let them know off the violations involved. Perhaps you can begin the tide of change at your parish.

Dominus vobiscum,

Kelly

I think I will just write a letter to the Pastor, if that doesn’t work, then I will let my Diocese know my concerns. Oh, and thanks for the quotes, those were the ones I was talking about.

I have heard it said that desire for the Eucharist is one of the most powerful and efficacious forms of penance. You can offer this for all those who cannot receive the Sacrament, particularly for those who cannot receive it because of willful acts that have separated them from the Church. for you and all in your position.

U don’t even know how bad it feels to want to do the right thing and not be able to…

The USHER asked why you weren’t going!! :bigyikes: :banghead:

He probably did have his reason, but the fact that he asked specifically why I wasn’t going after I said I couldn’t was what bothered me.

I think you have found the answer to this quandry yourself. I recommend you continue to do the above. It’s the right thing to do and you know it.

Will do just that!

I will be praying for you, yessisan. My husband and I also had to wait for a convalidation, and the wait can be painful. It was not the usher’s place to ask you why you weren’t going up to receive - it’s none of his business, and I think he was out of line. By the way, my husband is not Catholic and attends Mass with me each week. Our solution is that we sit on the end of the pew so that he can turn to the side or step off to the side for people to either leave or enter the pew (depending on which end we sit on). Congratulations on taking steps to be able to receive. Once you are able to receive the Eucharist again you will feel such joy!

You are so blessed to have your DH there. I wish mine went just for the sake of accompanying me. I did that with him but I felt wrong by going to his “church” (if it could even be called that) so I stopped going.

I hope your DH comes home to the CC, as I hope mine does too…

 

[yessisan]

You mad a citation but did not cite the source; could you do so pleasse? It is my udnerstanding that the laity do have the ability to give a blessing; I am not sure how widely that ghoes, but certainly parents have the ability to give their children a blessing.

It may well be that EMHCs do not have the ability to give a blessing; or it may be that we are talking about several different things here. Your source would help. [kell0618;1929138]Furthermore, by a gesture which suggests priestly authority in a sacramental setting, it confuses the role of the laity and the ordained minister which is prohibited.\QUOTE]Again, the poster did not say what gesture, if any, the EMHCs use, and it does not automatically go that any gesture results in confusion of priestly authority.

Do you want to know where those quote are from? Here is the link to the Vatican’s site where you can find these (or at least some of the quotes posted here):

EMHC scroll to Article 8 and you will find the quotes there.

Here’s another link from EWTN where you can find where kell0618 might have gotten his/her quotes from.

According to these, EMHC’s cannot bless since they are not ordained ministers they are just laity.

As for parents blessing their children, that was actually in another thread here a while ago, and from what I remeber, it is ok for parents to bless their children, but I think it falls on the same page as for EMHC’s.

Blessing children

The reference the OP gave was to the use of the Host to bless the individual (which the connected thread said was forbidden), but the OP then took that to mean any other gesture. Perhaps we have mixed our questions and answers.

How so?

 

[yessisan]

Cristiano,

Thanks for clarifying your OP and sorry if I misunderstood you. As for the catechist thing, the Pastor knows who I am and still lets me give the classes. I wasn’t aware that to teach the faith I have to be in good standing or fully reconciled w/God. Maybe the fact that I am correcting my invalid marriage is why he’s allowing it?? I do not know, but thanks for your concern. I will certainly ask the leader of the Latino Ministry (who’s in charge of the Latino Catechism as well) to see if I should step aside or continue what I am doing.

God bless!!

Now that I think of it, even my Diocese knows I am a catechist and they haven’t forbidden me from it…

 

[LeahInancsi]

I think I will just write a letter to the Pastor, if that doesn’t work, then I will let my Diocese know my concerns. Oh, and thanks for the quotes, those were the ones I was talking about.

In this regard, I think you’re being stubborn. The pastor is well aware of how mass is being conducted and is not likely to change to his and others inconvenience just for you. Most every Catholic church of size uses EMHC’s and they give blessings.

You asked a question and many people here have given you good advice which you refuse to heed. The bishop has much more important things to do than listen to you whine. I’m sure he’s well aware of the use of EMHC’s in his diocese. I know my bishop is aware because he celebrated five masses in a weekend at my parish about two months ago.

In case you don’t know, the priest blesses you at the beginning and ending of mass regardless of what an EMHC may do in the meantime.

 

[yessisan]

In this regard, I think you’re being stubborn. The pastor is well aware of how mass is being conducted and is not likely to change to his and others inconvenience just for you. Most every Catholic church of size uses EMHC’s and they give blessings.

You asked a question and many people here have given you good advice which you refuse to heed. The bishop has much more important things to do than listen to you whine. I’m sure he’s well aware of the use of EMHC’s in his diocese. I know my bishop is aware because he celebrated five masses in a weekend at my parish about two months ago.

In case you don’t know, the priest blesses you at the beginning and ending of mass regardless of what an EMHC may do in the meantime.

Excuse me if I want things corrected in Church. Plus, if you actually do a search on this subject, I’m not the only one with this concern. And if it is stated in canons then, the parishes should follow what the Vatican is telling them to do. Why would I give in to things that are being done wrong? It is my faith, oh and by the way, I really did know the priest blesses the congregation at the beginning and the end, do you think I just sit there to “attend” Mass? Or ATTEND because I am a REAL Catholic who goes, listens and enjoys the whole entire Liturgy…??? I do know what goes on from beginning to end, just so you know!

 

[otjm]

Do you want to know where those quote are from? Here is the link to the Vatican’s site where you can find these (or at least some of the quotes posted here):

EMHC scroll to Article 8 and you will find the quotes there.

Here’s another link from EWTN where you can find where kell0618 might have gotten his/her quotes from.

According to these, EMHC’s cannot bless since they are not ordained ministers they are just laity.

As for parents blessing their children, that was actually in another thread here a while ago, and from what I remeber, it is ok for parents to bless their children, but I think it falls on the same page as for EMHC’s.

Blessing children

How so?

I am looking specifically to a document which states that EMHCs are not to given any type of blessing; there are many types of blessing, and for lack of a better term they rank from informal to bvery formal (my words); from something as simple as “May God bless you” (very informal, and one that anyone could give in ordinary conversation) to more formal (one, e.g. from the Book of Blessings, e.g. by parents) to more formal by a priest or deacon (e.g. blessing a rosary) to specific blessings at Mass (more formal, byt he priest or deacon specifically) to a blessing with the Eucharist (e.g. at Benediction; noted as specifically reserved for the priest or deacon).

Specifically, what I am asking is, what is the source or authority which would either forbid an EMHC, or limit to a deacon or priest, a prayer or blessing such as “May the lord keep you and bless you”?

I am not trying to be a pest, and I don’t particularly have a dog in this fight. However, I do see at times in these threads people going from specific rules to generalizations that are not supported.

The quote from “On Certain Questions on Collaboration” is not on point as it does not adress the issue at hand.

 

[kell0618]

You mad a citation but did not cite the source; could you do so pleasse? It is my udnerstanding that the laity do have the ability to give a blessing; I am not sure how widely that ghoes, but certainly parents have the ability to give their children a blessing.

It may well be that EMHCs do not have the ability to give a blessing; or it may be that we are talking about several different things here. Your source would help. [kell0618;1929138]Furthermore, by a gesture which suggests priestly authority in a sacramental setting, it confuses the role of the laity and the ordained minister which is prohibited.\QUOTE]Again, the poster did not say what gesture, if any, the EMHCs use, and it does not automatically go that any gesture results in confusion of priestly authority.

The reference the OP gave was to the use of the Host to bless the individual (which the connected thread said was forbidden), but the OP then took that to mean any other gesture. Perhaps we have mixed our questions and answers.

As I said in my post, the information is from “An Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of the Priest”