Empathy towards women?

[BlueEyedLady]

Oh please. I think that a lot of people are taking this too seriously. The pain of childbirth has always kind of been a mystery to anyone who hasn’t been through it (men and women who haven’t had children). I can totally see why a man would want to see if it’s really as bad as everyone says it is, because I’m curious myself. But at the end of the day it was just a stunt for TV.

 

[silicasandra]

Oh please. I think that a lot of people are taking this too seriously. The pain of childbirth has always kind of been a mystery to anyone who hasn’t been through it (men and women who haven’t had children). I can totally see why a man would want to see if it’s really as bad as everyone says it is, because I’m curious myself. But at the end of the day it was just a stunt for TV.

What’s interesting is that the pain differs from woman to woman, and birth to birth, for a whole host of reasons. While it’s an experience that definitely changes a woman, there is not a single “childbirth” experience.

I had an intensely difficult and long labor. But I would never call it “bad” and at the time I didn’t even think to call it painful. I guess it was, but I wasn’t even thinking about whether or not it hurt. It just felt like work - and it was! Other women might feel differently about their experiences, though (and they do - in my circle of close friends, there are three of us who’ve had a baby within the past two years, and all of us had dramatically different experiences with childbirth and feelings about those experiences. But if they hooked all our husbands up to this machine, how different would their experiences be from each other?)

Society at large often treats childbirth as a singular experience that doesn’t vary much from birth to birth. In mainstream media, we all go to the hospital the instant labor starts, the person who drives us there drives like a maniac because he’s panicking, we all get the same meds, deliver in the same position, we all scream, etc. We’re portrayed as pretty powerless about the whole experience - almost like birth is something that happens to us rather than something we participate in. It’s…weird. Hooking a person up to a machine that is supposed to somehow simulate this pain doesn’t help - it’s something done to the person, rather than a process that the person participates in.

I’m not ridiculously offended by the video - I know better - but the entire premise is flawed. As other posters have pointed out, men and women have different experiences. This is not a bad thing as long as we don’t diminish the value of the other’s experience simply because it’s not ours. And it’s wrong to assume that childbirth is somehow a singular experience that never varies depending on the woman, the pregnancy, the medical practices of the time, etc.

 

[Kelfa28]

What’s interesting is that the pain differs from woman to woman, and birth to birth, for a whole host of reasons. While it’s an experience that definitely changes a woman, there is not a single “childbirth” experience.

Exactly.
It’s a different kind of pain that differs from woman to woman and pregnancy to pregnancy.

In terms of intense, serious pain…I’d argue that my appendix and breaking my finger were just as bad (yes, I crushed my finger and the pain was so bad).
The first 15 or so hours of my labor weren’t that bad. The last 7 or 8 were quite bad.

 

[chevalier]

Men aren’t machines or sociopaths, we have feelings too. Those feelings can be hurt when it is implied that we lack them.

 

[silentfactor80]

Men aren’t machines or sociopaths, we have feelings too. Those feelings can be hurt when it is implied that we lack them.

THANK YOU!!! Having feelings is a human thing! To declare half the species to be lacking feelings declares half the human species NOT HUMAN! This is largely an emotional argument feminists throw out there because men don’t give them everything they want which is to bend over backwards. I mean no offense by this but women are very skilled in psychological warfare. Just look up “teen shaming” to see what I mean.

 

[Nimzovik]

Men aren’t machines or sociopaths, we have feelings too. Those feelings can be hurt when it is implied that we lack them.

Amen Brother! Men indeed, are people too! Shheeeeeeeeesh! I find it fascinating that men even have to inform the general public that we have our **own very **valid experiences regarding the birth process.

Why must society continually marginalize our experiences and our role?

Perhaps this has something to do with it…
youtube.com/watch?v=BdbzNCTJvrA

 

[faithfully]

:banghead: What a bunch of tripe! Just yet ***another *stab at the Feminization of the American Male. The Male does just mighty fine in the process just as God designed him to be already.

Hmmmmmmmm… Now if they just made a machine that helped* women*** feel the pain** of circumcision…

Good grief! … I just do not understand people… “cute”…"funny"… what a joke… unbelievable…

As a woman… totally against that procedure. I’m not sure, a baby circumcision is anywhere near the “circumcisions” done on teenage girls in certain parts of the world. Followed by horrifying stitches for a “tighter” entrance. All so the man can have a more pleasurable experience, while she can not have any. We can always find a greater pain than our own.

I think women want men to have a clue because some men truly fail to be supportive when their wives go through so much. For example, someone snapped a photo in a friends labor room. Bad timing for her husband. She was clearly in extreme pain. He was laughing at her behind her back. They are divorced now. He continuously failed to value anything she ever did. Clearly not all men are like that.

I would like for my husband to try to be functional with a pair of glasses that would render him with my vision for just an hour. He truly doesn’t understand just how bad vision can be and your still not blind. Otherwise, I’m sure he wouldn’t argue with me about just “looking” at something when I say, I don’t have my contacts in and I can’t see my glasses to put them on. I hate it when I do that!

 

[dskysmine]

Well, I did show the video to my wife and she was actually thinking it would be good for me to try it for 1 hour.
She is highly sensitive, so the opinion may differ from wife to wife.

God bless,
D.

 

[silentfactor80]

As a woman… totally against that procedure. I’m not sure, a baby circumcision is anywhere near the “circumcisions” done on teenage girls in certain parts of the world. Followed by horrifying stitches for a “tighter” entrance. All so the man can have a more pleasurable experience, while she can not have any. We can always find a greater pain than our own.

I think women want men to have a clue because some men truly fail to be supportive when their wives go through so much. For example, someone snapped a photo in a friends labor room. Bad timing for her husband. She was clearly in extreme pain. He was laughing at her behind her back. They are divorced now. He continuously failed to value anything she ever did. Clearly not all men are like that.

I would like for my husband to try to be functional with a pair of glasses that would render him with my vision for just an hour. He truly doesn’t understand just how bad vision can be and your still not blind. Otherwise, I’m sure he wouldn’t argue with me about just “looking” at something when I say, I don’t have my contacts in and I can’t see my glasses to put them on. I hate it when I do that!

You do have a point but this is a communication issue. Why did your friend marry such a callous man? What you descrive is a symptom of a larger issue and that is people getting married who don’t know what marriage is.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

You do have a point but this is a communication issue. Why did your friend marry such a callous man? What you descrive is a symptom of a larger issue and that is people getting married who don’t know what marriage is.

I don’t know this woman who marry the callous fellow, but sometimes people don’t show their true nature until later.

I also want to note that this video was from a Dutch program, The two “laboring” fellows do stunts for shock value. Their show is called “Guinea Pigs”. I think the video is meant to be shocking. I don’t think it was meant to endorse a product of sorts, or to say men should do this.

One of the guys says he wanted to do this because he understands that giving birth is the worst pain there is.

I’m actually not sure it is…I had 3 labors without pain killers.

I also had an impacted wisdom tooth removed. I had a nice shot of Novocaine, and felt great. So I disregarded the doctor’s suggestion to take the pain killers before the Novocaine wore off. That was the worst pain ever. So bad I fainted.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/men-simulate-contractions-guinea-pigs-dutch-tv-show_n_2498088.html

 

[Moore11]

I’d like to see women feeling men’s pain. Have them go up to catch a ball and get hit in the ribcage by Clay Matthews…
Wait, women can’t catch…

 

[silicasandra]

I’d like to see women feeling men’s pain. Have them go up to catch a ball and get hit in the ribcage by Clay Matthews…
Wait, women can’t catch…

There are women who catch their own babies, you know! Talk about multitasking!

 

[Nimzovik]

As a woman… totally against that procedure. I’m not sure, a baby circumcision is anywhere near the “circumcisions” done on teenage girls in certain parts of the world. Followed by horrifying stitches for a “tighter” entrance. All so the man can have a more pleasurable experience, while she can not have any. We can always find a greater pain than our own.

I think women want men to have a clue because some men truly fail to be supportive when their wives go through so much. For example, someone snapped a photo in a friends labor room. Bad timing for her husband. She was clearly in extreme pain. He was laughing at her behind her back. They are divorced now. He continuously failed to value anything she ever did. Clearly not all men are like that.

I would like for my husband to try to be functional with a pair of glasses that would render him with my vision for just an hour. He truly doesn’t understand just how bad vision can be and your still not blind. Otherwise, I’m sure he wouldn’t argue with me about just “looking” at something when I say, I don’t have my contacts in and I can’t see my glasses to put them on. I hate it when I do that!

Bolding Mine:

A more pleasurable experience eh? Who is to jusdge that one? Women? Methinks not.

As for the statistics of male circumcision see here:
boystoo.com/history/statistics.htm
Note: 1. 70% of the current male population of the US have been circumcised.
Now then. That is a rather glaringly large number, now isn’t it.

Now you wish to compare numbers with female circumcision - eh?

In all actuality it isn’t about numbers now is it. Methinks the males do indeed out number the females regarding genital mutilation. Here is another question. Why is male circumcision not called genital mutilation?

 

[cmscms]

I think the video is pathetic and discusting. This is just another example of how society has absolutely no respect for the bodies God gave us or the process of creating life. Those 2 men are obvious morons. But then again, that is what people pay to see.

As for women wanting compassion from men. Well… I am a woman who has never had kids and I still think some men in my life (relatives, co-workers, neighbours) don’t have compassion for my feelings. But since I never had kids according to this video I don’t deserve male compassion

And not all men are insensitive. I have met many men who could not even begin to imagine what it is to be a woman but yet were more than happy to help in any way they could and take woman’s feelings seriously.

There are only 2 reasons any woman would want a her husband to be hooked up to one of these

1-) Her husband is cold hearted and she is at the end of her rope trying to fight for respect
2-) She is immature and does not know how to communicate her feelings in a mature way

By the way, I knew a woman whose husband had NO compassion for her during a pregnancy. She was so at the end of her rope she insisted he be in the delivery room to see what she was going through. The whole plan back fired. Her husband boasted to me how he was so good and supportive by making sure she did not get the epideral since it would have been a mistake

If a man does not have empathy for his wife, no machine will make him have it

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Bolding Mine:

A more pleasurable experience eh? Who is to jusdge that one? Women? Methinks not.

As for the statistics of male circumcision see here:
boystoo.com/history/statistics.htm
Note: 1. 70% of the current male population of the US have been circumcised.
Now then. That is a rather glaringly large number, now isn’t it.

Now you wish to compare numbers with female circumcision - eh?

In all actuality it isn’t about numbers now is it. Methinks the males do indeed out number the females regarding genital mutilation. Here is another question. Why is male circumcision not called genital mutilation?

I am so totally against male circumcision. I think that it is downright child abuse. But realistically it is not as bad as female circumcision. A circumcised man can still feel sexual pleasure and experience an orgasm. Male circumcision is done on babies who don’t remember it and anesthesia is used. Female circumcision is done on teens in filthy environments without any painkiller. Infection and death are not uncommon.

I agree that male circumcision is atrocious, but at this point you’re spouting off for the sake of spouting off, because in your mind your gender is always the victim in every circumstance.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I am so totally against male circumcision. I think that it is downright child abuse. But realistically it is not as bad as female circumcision. A circumcised man can still feel sexual pleasure and experience an orgasm. Male circumcision is done on babies who don’t remember it and anesthesia is used. Female circumcision is done on teens in filthy environments without any painkiller. Infection and death are not uncommon.

I agree that male circumcision is atrocious, but at this point you’re spouting off for the sake of spouting off, because in your mind your gender is always the victim in every circumstance.

Actually, I would like to apologize for that snarky ending.

It just gets extremely tiresome to hear you complain day in and day out about the plight of men without so much as acknowledging that throughout most of history and even today in many parts of the world women are abused, oppressed, and enslaved. Even in our own nation men have always been dominant in every level of government and in most industries. There are still very real concerns about equal pay and discrimination in the workplace, especially against mothers. Equality for women is good for men too. It ensues that his family will still get a fair income if he is ever unable to work.

Yes, men do experience discrimination. Yes, there are some issues that need to be worked out in that area. But the way to bring legitimacy to these issues and grievances is not to constantly try to one-up women’s issues, insult what women have faced and continue to face, and marginalize the problems that still exist. The way to make people care and take action for men is to argue the problems on their own merits, not against women’s issues.

Not once have I ever seen you post a single thing in defense of women, or that even acknowledges that things aren’t perfect for us either. But you do have a way of managing to hijack threads to put the focus on what you perceive was a world out to get men.

 

[jimmy]

Everyone suffers pain, both men and women. We both have our problems to deal with, there is no point making it a contest or getting up in arms against the opposite sex. Deal with your own life and you will be happy. Don’t be obsessed with whether you suffer more than anyone else, you might be surprised at how much other people suffer.

 

[Moore11]

Everyone suffers pain, both men and women. We both have our problems to deal with, there is no point making it a contest or getting up in arms against the opposite sex. Deal with your own life and you will be happy. Don’t be obsessed with whether you suffer more than anyone else, you might be surprised at how much other people suffer.

As a consequence for the fall, women have to have pain in childbirth and men have to toil in the fields, so see childbirth is only as hard as a good day farming.
Since I am a stay at home dad and my wife is a plant scientist. We often joke that I got the best deal ever. She has childbirth AND toils in the field.

 

[Nimzovik]

I am so totally against male circumcision. I think that it is downright child abuse. But realistically it is not as bad as female circumcision. A circumcised man can still feel sexual pleasure and experience an orgasm. Male circumcision is done on babies who don’t remember it and anesthesia is used. Female circumcision is done on teens in filthy environments without any painkiller. Infection and death are not uncommon.

I agree that male circumcision is atrocious, but at this point you’re spouting off for the sake of spouting off, because in your mind your gender is always the victim in every circumstance.

Bolding Mine:

Oh yes? "…not as bad as female circumcision… "eh? Hmmmmmm… just whom is really insisting on being a victim here eh? As a female, can you speak to the pain a male feels at circumcision? The baby does not remember it, you say - eh? If true (If there are ‘Drain Pipe Dreams’ resulting from Birth Process Trauma as Freud indicated then** can you really and truthfully declare so empahtically in such an ad hominen manner, that it is not remembered? No. You can not.) might the dynamic of circumcison trauma be even *more *insidious and detrimental if it resides in the subconscious?

Hello? You are aware circumcision of males occurs third world countries of, for example Islam as well - yes? Like in India?

Wow! You can vouchsafe for all those male circumcision procedures being performed all over the whole world are done in an asceptic manner eh? That is an amazing ability you have! You can guarantee pain killer is used everywhere too- yes? And that the male circumcision process is never performed on a male teen?

 

[Nimzovik]

Actually, I would like to apologize for that snarky ending.

It just gets extremely tiresome to hear you complain day in and day out about the plight of men without so much as acknowledging that throughout most of history and even today in many parts of the world women are abused, oppressed, and enslaved. Even in our own nation men have always been dominant in every level of government and in most industries. There are still very real concerns about equal pay and discrimination in the workplace, especially against mothers. Equality for women is good for men too. It ensues that his family will still get a fair income if he is ever unable to work.

Yes, men do experience discrimination. Yes, there are some issues that need to be worked out in that area. But the way to bring legitimacy to these issues and grievances is not to constantly try to one-up women’s issues, insult what women have faced and continue to face, and marginalize the problems that still exist. The way to make people care and take action for men is to argue the problems on their own merits, not against women’s issues.

Not once have I ever seen you post a single thing in defense of women, or that even acknowledges that things aren’t perfect for us either. But you do have a way of managing to hijack threads to put the focus on what you perceive was a world out to get men.

Well gee… There are just sooooo many erroneous statements I just do not have the time to address them all at this juncture.

First let me start with this one. 1) To present Male issues does not equate to devaluing Female issues. Statements similar to this I have posted numerous times. Feel free to search my threads.

2) As for **"…**Not once have I ever seen you post a single thing in defense of women, or that even acknowledges that things aren’t perfect for us either."is again, just simply inaccurate.

3) I always find it rather fascinating that when one endeavors to present Male issues one is assumed to be anti woman. This is simply non sequitur.

However, thankyou for your apology for being ‘snarky’ as you termed it.