Empitness.

[Hat4]

I am always curious when i read posts here by strong “believers” who say they feel the empty void, they are depressed, they are suicidal, etc. It always surprises me because so many talk about religion–here it would be Catholicism–as being the blueprint for happiness and satisfaction. But some follow this blueprint, and then…they are not happy.

So what does that tell us?
Are they just believing “wrongly”?
Do they not believe or pray enough?

Or is the key to feeling “filled up” different for each person?

Christopher Hitchens loved, devoured, savored every minute of life, he said in interviews.
And I know some people who are very religious but are rarely happy.

So…

And yet I’m sure we’ve all seen the studies showing that religious people are less likely to suffer from depression, less likely to commit suicide, recover from illness quicker etc. Some people just don’t tend to be very happy, believer or nonbeliever alike, but I’ve known people who had fairly messed up lives before they found God who are much happier now.

 

[mercytruth]

In the Christian world, Jesus and Saint Francis are my two favorite people so far. I’ve not read much about other saints other then Saint Bernard and Benedict.

Francis I really get. He got down and dirty. I adore people like that. People not afraid to work hard and get things done. People who live in the real world. Yes, I know Francis had a phenominal spiritual life, obviously, but he was a real get things done kinda guy. So was Jesus.

I like that in a person.

Dunno. I’m not immune to the transcendant. I adore music, poetry, and so on. I can get lost, literally, in a piece of music. I can lose myself looking at the moon, or the stars, or just watching the waves crash on the shore. I can stare at a flower for an hour, lost in it’s intrinsic beauty.

But I see it all as nature, part of the cycle of nature. Nothing more.

But within that, I can honestly tell you, I have had some of the most sublime moments of my existence.

This world, in all it’s beauty, and ungliness, and danger, and thrilling, electrifying life, is truely something to behold.

I feel awesomely privilaged to be a human, and to be able to do something, and make something, and leave something behind, to have tried to have made things a little better, to mark my presence here.

Sarah x

From what I have read of Chief Joseph, he was a most remarkable and noble human being, who knew firsthand what it was to suffer for the truth.

biography.com/people/chief-joseph-9358227?page=2

 

[atheistgirl]

I, and other Catholics, just take it one step farther.

This is the bit I just can’t understand.

We recognize that none of this beauty is capable of existing without a god who loves us completely.

As you can tell, I’m completely lost on this one. None of the beauty and terror I see around me indicates anything else to me except natural processes. I see beauty where I know many others don’t. It’s subjective, but I’m able to tap into this beauty, and peace, where I see and find it, and it speaks to me.
Not for some supernatural reason, but simply because I too am a part of the same nature producing the thing of beauty or awe that speaks to me and inspires me.

For me, to attribute some kind of supernatural element to what is simply the evolved nature of life on this planet, somehow takes away from the beauty and inspiration of it all for me.

The fact I know it won’t be here next year, or the earth won’t be here in a few billion years when the sun burns out, or the fact I won’t be here in maybe another 70 years time, just heightens the appreciation of it all for me, and intensifies the urgency to not waste a minute of this precious life we have on earth.

If you only put stake in the natural reality, then you also have to accept that eventually everything you know and love will cease to exist, the sun will consume our planet, the universe will rip itself to shreds, and time as we know it will cease to be.

Exactly.

These thoughts are not depressing to us though, because we already accept that everything is transient, except the soul.

Whereas I accept everything is transient. Period.

As a person with your type of mindset, I’d think that even the potential for something so amazing would be enough to make you open to the possibility of God; and once you open yourself to the possibility of God his calls will have more effect on you.

Which is why I’m very interested in this ‘‘void’’ I hear and read about. I don’t feel it. I never have. The posts are very interesting to read, because as part of the prayer exercises I’m currently undertaking, I’m trying to develop a heightened sensitivity to where this void might be in my life.

Sarah x

 

[Julia_Mae]

Which is why I’m very interested in this ‘‘void’’ I hear and read about. I don’t feel it. I never have. The posts are very interesting to read, because as part of the prayer exercises I’m currently undertaking, I’m trying to develop a heightened sensitivity to where this void might be in my life.

Sarah x

Why? See, everything you describe about yourself just means to me you are so naturally tied to the transcendental, you are already in the place others spend their lives seeking. You are apparently a natural mystic.

God is in you. The Kingdom of God is among us.

You are so tied in, it’s seamless. The only part you are missing is that your ancestors are also among us. Right there. Right with you. They are talking to you and you are hearing them, but because it sounds like your own thought-voice, because it seems to come from within, you don’t recognize this.

Do something for me. Go here. Scroll down to the pic of the woman in the taxi and read the story. Meditate on the question: why didn’t he drive away when he wanted to?

 

[mercytruth]

This ‘void’ may be confused with the boredom, or the ennui of a self-centered life usually found in more affluent cultures.

This ‘void’ may be confused with ‘loss’. Loss of a loved one, or loss of never having the father, or mother that one would have desired.

This ‘void’ may be confused with loneliness.

This ‘void’ may be confused with clinical depression.

Many times there is the pursuit of spirituality in order to fill these ‘voids’.

just some thoughts

micah

 

[Bill_7154]

We are value driven creatures; and our mental health is largely dependent on how we perceive the value of our existence.

The bottom line is simply this: A person who doesn’t take existence for granted and is dedicated to reflecting honestly on the human condition, will admit that it is always dishonest and deceptive to give meaning and moral-value to things which have no meaning or moral-value; for the simple fact that such behavior does not reflect the nature of real things. Its also dishonest to convince others to participate in the same delusion. This remains true regardless of whether or not you are an atheist or a theist.

Becoming an atheist might free you from the delusion of placing value and meaning on life by invoking the fantasy of God, but it does not necessitate that you are free from the dishonest activity of placing value and meaning on things which have no true value or meaning. Make-belief is the essence of humanism.

An honest person who knows that life is vanity would prefer not to exist than to pretend that life is worth living or give value and meaning to things which have none.

Some people will commit suicide, and some people will take a leap of faith that there is a God. The most despicable person is the one that admits life has no value or meaning but chooses to live none-the-less and attempts to deceive people by making the claim that there is no problem with the human condition. In reality such a person is merely saying that they are willing to settle for eating, sleeping, sex, and entertainment, and if necessary living in a delusion so long as it is of their own making and will.

Such a shallow existence just isn’t enough for some people, and those who seek religious truth do so because they would prefer to fulfill the distinction between people and animals to its highest potential rather than live the life of a mere replicating organism going nowhere.

I think I"m a little too stupid to follow the meaning of your post. I’m kinda lost in trying to make sense of it…

 

[Catholic80]

I understand exactly what you’re saying. But sometimes these are a moment never to be repeated. Or that you never want to be repeated.

Of course no situation is ever repeated exactly, but when you experience goodness, true kindness or compassion, have you every though, “wow, life should be more like that.”
For example, St. Maximillian Kolbe took the place of another man to be starved to death in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany. What was it that moved this man to do such a heroic feat? What is it that moves men to make huge sacrifices, to the point of death, to save another man? This goes against “nature,” if you will. Our instincts are for self-preservation, but there are many cases where one dies in spite of the opportunity for self-preservation - purely out of love.

I’m going to be a little vague for politeness and decency and privacy here, but I was somewhere once, and something happened. As that something was happening, two other unrelated events happened simultaneously. It brought all three events together in a way never before or since. If ever I was going to believe in heaven, it was then.

I’ve never been back there, and I never will. It’s a deliberate decision on my part. It would never be the same the second time, things would be different, though no doubt great, but not the same.

Sometimes, when something so profound happens, you don’t want it to happen again. You need it once, to savor for the rest of your life.

Gosh I hope that make some kind of sense.

I’ll admit, I was a little confused while reading that But, what I think you are trying to say is you don’t want to ruin something that is already good. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)
My question is, how could hope for a future destroy an event that was good in the past?

It’s the nature of the beast. We’re driven to improve

.

But why? What drives us? I cannot think of one person throughout history that wanted things to remain just as they are (for the whole world) Animals do not try to “improve” their environment over the course of history. Only humans do. Why is it that we alone seek for something more?

No suffering or minimul suffering for people, animals and the environment yes, not no destruction, as that’s part of nature. That’s what I long for for others, most especially my children and future generations, but that doesn’t equate to an emptiness inside me, longing to b filled somehow. That’s more a daily call to action to do something and not waste time, with the time I’ve got. So if anything it contributes to making me feel even more full!

When I said “destruction” I was referring to things like war, slavery, poverty, oppression, etc.

Oh sure, all the time.
In this sense though, I don’t see it, or feel it, as something missing in my life, just more being added to already what’s there.

Have you never missed a friend or family member when they have gone away for a long time? Have you never felt a loss when someone you love dies? Have you ever been hurt by someone? Have you ever been lonely? If suddenly, everything were taken from you, would you be perfectly content?

We long for friends and friendship… for communion. Do you not long for a deep friendship with another?

I was trying to get a better understanding of what it is, that this void is made up of, and what it feels like, the believers experience.

For me, the void is loneliness. It’s a profound suffering that no one here on earth can fill the longing that is in my heart. In short, it’s a longing for communion. I get tastes of it that leave me longing for more. The more I taste people’s kindness and beauty and selflessness, the more I long for this truth.

 

[ReapReason]

I think I"m a little too stupid to follow the meaning of your post. I’m kinda lost in trying to make sense of it…

Then feel free to read something else?

Don’t feel stupid. There are some things that i don’t understand.

 

[InJesusItrust]

It’s quite simple Bill. Without the transcendent, there are no objective morals or meaning to life. Those who accept this premise and still want to live are content to play mind games with themselves: there is no meaning to life so I will make my own meaning. The problem with that is that the meaning is not true. They are just pretending that their life has meaning and content themselves with vanity and idle pleasures. All who truly value “truth” cannot live like that, because they know that it is self-deception. Rather, death is the only escape from such miserable circumstances.

I have read psychologists say that to kill a prisoner in a concentration camp faster, what you should do is give him meaningless work. It is the perception of value that gives a person the will to live. Take away that and they fall apart.

Take away the value to everything in life and a person falls apart. Take away the illusion of value by reflecting on suffering, death and eternal nothingness, and well…

 

[atheistgirl]

Do something for me. Go here. Scroll down to the pic of the woman in the taxi and read the story. Meditate on the question: why didn’t he drive away when he wanted to?

I’d love to, but I can’t see that pic of the woman in a taxi

Have you a more direct link?

Sarah x

 

[Julia_Mae]

I’d love to, but I can’t see that pic of the woman in a taxi

Have you a more direct link?

Sarah x

sigh ::stupid Facebook::

A NYC Taxi driver wrote:

I arrived at the address and honked the horn. After waiting a few minutes I honked again. Since this was going to be my last ride of my shift I thought about just driving away, but instead I put the car in park and walked up to the door and knocked… ‘Just a minute’, answered a frail, elderly voice. I could hear something being dragged across the floor.

After a long pause, the door opened. A small woman in her 90’s stood before me. She was wearing a print dress and a pillbox hat with a veil pinned on it, like somebody out of a 1940’s movie.

By her side was a small nylon suitcase. The apartment looked as if no one had lived in it for years. All the furniture was covered with sheets.

There were no clocks on the walls, no knickknacks or utensils on the counters. In the corner was a cardboard
box filled with photos and glassware.

‘Would you carry my bag out to the car?’ she said. I took the suitcase to the cab, then returned to assist the woman.

She took my arm and we walked slowly toward the curb.

She kept thanking me for my kindness. ‘It’s nothing’, I told her… ‘I just try to treat my passengers the way I would want my mother to be treated.’

'Oh, you’re such a good boy, she said. When we got in the cab, she gave me an address and then asked, ‘Could you drive
through downtown?’

‘It’s not the shortest way,’ I answered quickly…

‘Oh, I don’t mind,’ she said. 'I’m in no hurry. I’m on my way to a hospice.

I looked in the rear-view mirror. Her eyes were glistening. ‘I don’t have any family left,’ she continued in a soft voice…‘The doctor says I don’t have very long.’ I quietly reached over and shut off the meter.

‘What route would you like me to take?’ I asked.

For the next two hours, we drove through the city. She showed me the building where she had once worked as an elevator operator.

We drove through the neighborhood where she and her husband had lived when they were newlyweds She had me pull up in front of a furniture warehouse that had once been a ballroom where she had gone dancing as a girl.

Sometimes she’d ask me to slow in front of a particular building or corner and would sit staring into the darkness, saying nothing.

As the first hint of sun was creasing the horizon, she suddenly said, ‘I’m tired.Let’s go now’.
We drove in silence to the address she had given me. It was a low building, like a small convalescent home, with a driveway that passed under a portico.

Two orderlies came out to the cab as soon as we pulled up. They were solicitous and intent, watching her every move.
They must have been expecting her.

I opened the trunk and took the small suitcase to the door. The woman was already seated in a wheelchair.

‘How much do I owe you?’ She asked, reaching into her purse.

‘Nothing,’ I said

‘You have to make a living,’ she answered.

‘There are other passengers,’ I responded.

Almost without thinking, I bent and gave her a hug.She held onto me tightly.

‘You gave an old woman a little moment of joy,’ she said. ‘Thank you.’

I squeezed her hand, and then walked into the dim morning light… Behind me, a door shut.It was the sound of the closing of a life…

I didn’t pick up any more passengers that shift. I drove aimlessly lost in thought. For the rest of that day,I could hardly talk.What if that woman had gotten an angry driver,or one who was impatient to end his shift? What if I had refused to take the run, or had honked once, then driven away?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...82123.130269480330338&type=1&relevant_count=1

 

[atheistgirl]

sigh ::stupid Facebook::

Thanks Julia Mae.

I’ll read and comment shortly.

Sarah x :

 

[snarflemike]

Well I certainly don’t feel like anything is missing. Which I’m finding interesting, because of everything I’ve read here and elsewhere, and all the conversations I have here and elsewhere, I’m lead to believe there is a void within us all, that we can feel, and only God can fill.

When I was in my long atheist period I never felt like anything was missing, and that’s not what brought me back to God and his Church. But I wasn’t thinking about the Big Things at all - in that sense I was being a pretty pathetic excuse for a human being.

When I did “come home” what I experienced (and continue to experience) is that God and his revelation (as found in the Catholic Church) pointed out so many things I hadn’t wondered about, and at the same time provided entirely sensible answers (which no other philosophy did). It was like living in the broom closet of a large library and not realizing there was more, and then one day having the door opened and realizing that there were more, vastly more things in heaven and earth than were ever dreamed of in my philosophy.

In fact, for a few years after my return I often had dreams where I was in some familiar house that I thought I knew, and I would discover that there were great numbers of rooms and floors in the house that I never knew were there. It was an indescribably delicious feeling, and one that I miss.

 

[snarflemike]

BTW, atheistgirl, on this topic allow me to recommend that you read CS Lewis “Surprised by Joy”. It’s the best answer I can think of to your question, and a delightful and thoroughly honest read to boot - not at all preachy or dry.

 

[atheistgirl]

BTW, atheistgirl, on this topic allow me to recommend that you read CS Lewis “Surprised by Joy”. It’s the best answer I can think of to your question, and a delightful and thoroughly honest read to boot - not at all preachy or dry.

I’ll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

Meditate on the question: why didn’t he drive away when he wanted to?

I said I’d respond to this shortly. It’s been a bit longer but I haven’t forgotten. I started to write a quick response, but actually, more thoughts came into my head, and I’ve been reflecting on this story, and them, as part of the prayer exercises I’m undertaking.

What was a simple enough response is now anything but.

I think I’m going to include the reflections in the feedback I’m going to write up at the end of the prayer exercise. I’ll post it for anyone interested in reading.

Sarah x

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think I’m going to include the reflections in the feedback I’m going to write up at the end of the prayer exercise. I’ll post it for anyone interested in reading.

Sarah x

I’ll be interested to hear your thoughts. God bless you abundantly on this journey.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

sigh ::stupid Facebook::

A NYC Taxi driver wrote:

I arrived at the address and honked the horn. After waiting a few minutes I honked again. Since this was going to be my last ride of my shift I thought about just driving away, but instead I put the car in park and walked up to the door and knocked… ‘Just a minute’, answered a frail, elderly voice. I could hear something being dragged across the floor.

After a long pause, the door opened. A small woman in her 90’s stood before me. She was wearing a print dress and a pillbox hat with a veil pinned on it, like somebody out of a 1940’s movie.

By her side was a small nylon suitcase. The apartment looked as if no one had lived in it for years. All the furniture was covered with sheets.

There were no clocks on the walls, no knickknacks or utensils on the counters. In the corner was a cardboard
box filled with photos and glassware.

‘Would you carry my bag out to the car?’ she said. I took the suitcase to the cab, then returned to assist the woman.

She took my arm and we walked slowly toward the curb.

She kept thanking me for my kindness. ‘It’s nothing’, I told her… ‘I just try to treat my passengers the way I would want my mother to be treated.’

'Oh, you’re such a good boy, she said. When we got in the cab, she gave me an address and then asked, ‘Could you drive
through downtown?’

‘It’s not the shortest way,’ I answered quickly…

‘Oh, I don’t mind,’ she said. 'I’m in no hurry. I’m on my way to a hospice.

I looked in the rear-view mirror. Her eyes were glistening. ‘I don’t have any family left,’ she continued in a soft voice…‘The doctor says I don’t have very long.’ I quietly reached over and shut off the meter.

‘What route would you like me to take?’ I asked.

For the next two hours, we drove through the city. She showed me the building where she had once worked as an elevator operator.

We drove through the neighborhood where she and her husband had lived when they were newlyweds She had me pull up in front of a furniture warehouse that had once been a ballroom where she had gone dancing as a girl.

Sometimes she’d ask me to slow in front of a particular building or corner and would sit staring into the darkness, saying nothing.

As the first hint of sun was creasing the horizon, she suddenly said, ‘I’m tired.Let’s go now’.
We drove in silence to the address she had given me. It was a low building, like a small convalescent home, with a driveway that passed under a portico.

Two orderlies came out to the cab as soon as we pulled up. They were solicitous and intent, watching her every move.
They must have been expecting her.

I opened the trunk and took the small suitcase to the door. The woman was already seated in a wheelchair.

‘How much do I owe you?’ She asked, reaching into her purse.

‘Nothing,’ I said

‘You have to make a living,’ she answered.

‘There are other passengers,’ I responded.

Almost without thinking, I bent and gave her a hug.She held onto me tightly.

‘You gave an old woman a little moment of joy,’ she said. ‘Thank you.’

I squeezed her hand, and then walked into the dim morning light… Behind me, a door shut.It was the sound of the closing of a life…

I didn’t pick up any more passengers that shift. I drove aimlessly lost in thought. For the rest of that day,I could hardly talk.What if that woman had gotten an angry driver,or one who was impatient to end his shift? What if I had refused to take the run, or had honked once, then driven away?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...82123.130269480330338&type=1&relevant_count=1

I must say that was just beautiful. Only God could motivate such a beautiful story.

 

[PacemVox]

Thank you for sharing such beatiful story. It is hard not to reflect in what the true value of life is. May the Lord bless you.

 

[In_Spiration]

Imagine that there is no death for humans and that one’s life goes on forever (for-ev-er, for-ev-er), basically as it is now, but without any foreseeable, inevitable, or even potential end – that is, with all the same capacities for pleasure, pain, joy, suffering, etc., just without any possibility of ever dying or somehow ceasing to exist. How would this change your life and/or what you think of it as well as its value? (The thought-experiment works best if permanent loss of consciousness is likewise removed from being a realizable fate for anyone; however, the same point can still probably be made by asking whether in that case you’d expect to eventually prefer becoming an eternal vegetable after a certain amount of time passes or once some likely, irreversible misfortune occurs or something.)

Boiled down, the question is: Would an eternal existence be desirable and joyful if it were constituted by anything short of a perfectly-satisfactory, attained-then-guaranteed happiness? (And I can offer helpful (but ultimately imperfect) illustrations as to just how long “forever” actually is, if necessary.)