Employers deprive workers of a life

[JMJ_coder]

It just seems that more and more, employers are demanding more of their employees. Being on call at all hours, expected overtime, etc. They don’t seem to care about anything else but the bottom line.

It seems that there should be an option for workers to work from a home office a limited number of hours a day (say 4-5). And, this option should be available to professional jobs, not just minimum wage flipping burgers (which you can’t usually do from home anyways).

Some of us don’t care about pulling down 6 figures. Some of us feel that the best work environment is the home. Some of us would like to spend time in other productive pursuits (such as volunteering, or gardening, or taking care of a loved one). Some of us feel that corporate America just doesn’t care and is becoming like the robber barons of old (‘do as I say or I’ll ruin you’ type mentality).

 

[neat62]

Oh, flex hours. Go to Europe. And what about the blue collars? Don’t YOU care about them? They surely cannot work from home. Do you sweat your tail off in the summer or work until your fingers and toes are numb? Yeah, I know, they chose that line of work. And so did you. Not trying to sound ******.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

There are positions like this out there, but they pay less than more traditional 8 to 5s.

Part of the reason we aren’t making more progress on such issues is actually ilegal immigration. Any increase in the labor supply makes labor less valuable. The divide between skilled and unskilled labor provides only a temporary buffer.

 

[thomfra]

I am afraid that is the system American’s have chosen. It works well for the employee when times are good, with added flexibility, chance to earn more money etc.

But if it becomes an employers market, then it’s a bit harder.

Where I live we have a 37.5 hours standard working week. Shops are closed on Sunday. 5 weeks (law enshrined - the employer can not deny you this) annual leave.

People seem to like it. But then there are the taxes which are higher.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Oh, flex hours. Go to Europe. And what about the blue collars? Don’t YOU care about them? They surely cannot work from home. Do you sweat your tail off in the summer or work until your fingers and toes are numb? Yeah, I know, they chose that line of work. And so did you. Not trying to sound ******.

Actually, they may be more able to do this. Many have opened workshops at their home and there they create and sell (through various means) their wares.

Of course, unskilled laborers are always at the disadvantage and bottom of the proverbial ladder.

 

[neat62]

JMJ_coder;4215385]

Actually, they may be more able to do this. Many have opened workshops at their home and there they create and sell (through various means) their wares.

Possible. My uncle tried to make a living making things in wood. There is no money in it. Maybe a cabinet maker, but that is a full time gig.

Of course, unskilled laborers are always at the disadvantage and bottom of the proverbial ladder

What about skilled blue collar labor? It just cannot be done. This is all just for white collars.

 

[DD2007]

It just seems that more and more, employers are demanding more of their employees. Being on call at all hours, expected overtime, etc. They don’t seem to care about anything else but the bottom line.

It seems that there should be an option for workers to work from a home office a limited number of hours a day (say 4-5). And, this option should be available to professional jobs, not just minimum wage flipping burgers (which you can’t usually do from home anyways).

Some of us don’t care about pulling down 6 figures. Some of us feel that the best work environment is the home. Some of us would like to spend time in other productive pursuits (such as volunteering, or gardening, or taking care of a loved one). Some of us feel that corporate America just doesn’t care and is becoming like the robber barons of old (‘do as I say or I’ll ruin you’ type mentality).

Its because they make irresponsible decisions based on greed. That is why we are in the biggest financial crisis since the crash of 29…irresponsible people who care about no one but themselves.

I agree with you 100%. These guys are reprehensible.

 

[neat62]

Its because they make irresponsible decisions based on greed. That is why we are in the biggest financial crisis since the crash of 29…irresponsible people who care about no one but themselves.

I agree with you 100%. These guys are reprehensible.

Funny how attitudes change. When people’s stocks, mutual funds, and retirements were doing well in the market, everything was cool. Now messed up people, bad government programs, and stupid people who got in over their heads with loans and flipping houses, only the people at the top get chatised. Flipping houses was based on making money by average folks. Why aren’t they called greedy?

This problem we have today is because of a lot of people, from CEO’s to the little guy. Nobody is blame free.

 

[JMJ_coder]

JMJ_coder;4215385]
Possible. My uncle tried to make a living making things in wood. There is no money in it. Maybe a cabinet maker, but that is a full time gig.

Well, not if you want to be as rich as Bill Gates. But, as I said in the beginning, for those whose needs and wants are small, enough money can be made.

JMJ_coder;4215385]What about skilled blue collar labor? It just cannot be done. This is all just for white collars.

Machinists, welders, mechanics, carpenters, etc. - can and do set up their own businesses, and many set them up at their home (maybe in a garage or other type workshop).

I agree that there are some jobs that won’t work with this - medical professionals, day-laborers (basically unskilled labor), heavy industry (capital starts to become a factor very quickly).

I’m not saying that this is for everyone. But, my point was why isn’t this option readily available.

 

[Oscarthecat]

Its because they make irresponsible decisions based on greed. That is why we are in the biggest financial crisis since the crash of 29…irresponsible people who care about no one but themselves.

I agree with you 100%. These guys are reprehensible.

I hear this kind of thing a lot. I agree that there are some bad business owners out there who would grumble about giving their own mother a day off, but by and large I think you’re angry with the wrong group of people.

Employers aren’t the problem- they are responding to market forces to ensure that their businesses remain competitive. In my experience, the number one reason that businesses are slow to shift to flex hours is not because they are evil, they are afraid that it will lead to a decrease in customer satisfaction- which puts their business (and your job) at risk.

The problem is with us- because we are all consumers in the marketplace, and the market is giving us exactly what we tell them to- because if they don’t then we get mad and take our business elsewhere.

• We, the consumers, want to go shopping on holidays, so employers have to open their doors or we stop shopping at their store.
• We want to go out to eat on Sunday after Church, and so employers have to make their staff get up early to go to work (and miss Church in the process, by the way), or we get mad and stop eating at their restaurant.
• We want a live person sitting at the tech support hotline when our computer breaks at 3a.m. And if they don’t then we get furious and vow never to buy that brand of computer again.

The next time you’re angry with a business because they aren’t providing you good service, you should consider whether that employer is sacrificing your needs as a consumer in order to respect their employee’s rights as human beings.

There are businesses that strive to be different, though- take Chik-fil-a, for example. They are never open on Sundays or Holidays, and most locations state right on their posted hours display that they close on Sundays so their employees can rest and spend time with their families. I was never a big fan of that chain before, but now I will drive out of my way to go there when I’m in the mood for fast food.

Change your habits as a consumer, and businesses will be able to allow you to change your habits as an employee.

 

[Ruthie]

Hobby Lobby is another. I patronize them because of it!
ditto for Chik-Fil-A - not to mention that they have diet lemonade - the *only *fast food where I have a choice between caffeine and sugar!

Ruthie

 

[bluerose]

IThe problem is with us- because we are all consumers in the marketplace, and the market is giving us exactly what we tell them to- because if they don’t then we get mad and take our business elsewhere.

• We, the consumers, want to go shopping on holidays, so employers have to open their doors or we stop shopping at their store.
• We want to go out to eat on Sunday after Church, and so employers have to make their staff get up early to go to work (and miss Church in the process, by the way), or we get mad and stop eating at their restaurant.
• We want a live person sitting at the tech support hotline when our computer breaks at 3a.m. And if they don’t then we get furious and vow never to buy that brand of computer again.

The next time you’re angry with a business because they aren’t providing you good service, you should consider whether that employer is sacrificing your needs as a consumer in order to respect their employee’s rights as human beings.

Change your habits as a consumer, and businesses will be able to allow you to change your habits as an employee.

THANK YOU!!! This resonates with me because I work for the “big bad wolf” of all time–the corporate monster known as WalMart. And while I’m certainly not holding up WalMart as a paragon of virtue (I’d work at Hobby Lobby in a heartbeat if there was one in my area), why does everyone blame WalMart for all the ills visited upon America? I decorate cakes for WalMart and I’m pretty darn good at it… probably good enough to open my own place EXCEPT…

1. People want their cakes on Sundays.
2. People want their cakes cheap.

If I operated out of my own home, first I would have to comply with state and county laws governing food preparation… IF I happen to meet zoning regulations for operating a business in a residential area (and if I don’t, then having to either a. move or b. apply for a variance which I may or may not get and which would not be a cheap nor fast option–BTW, yes, I have looked into this!) Of course, I could always RENT a place, but four-figure commercial rental rates (at least that’s what they run where I live) are out of the question (if I had that kind of money, I wouldn’t have to work!) Then I have to have insurance and pay taxes, not to mention be subject to periodic inspections from the health department (which would, from previous experience, probably require me to bring my wiring, plumbing and food prep areas “up to code”, as well as install floor drains.) THEN I have to make sure that my ingredients are all labeled and listed, as well as warn consumers of “possible contact with allergens (peanuts, wheat, milk, etc.)” once I determine where I get my supplies (Wal*Mart???) and be prepared for a jump in my liability coverage in the event someone gets sick or an allergic reaction from one of my products, and pray I don’t end up wishing I’d kept an attorney on retainer. And that’s assuming I do all the work myself and don’t hire anyone. Let’s not even get into unemployment, workman’s comp, etc.

Now how much do you think I’d be able to charge for a cake and still make a profit? Answer: a HECK of a lot more than Wal*Mart (or ANY supermarket bakery for that matter) charges! And how well have other independent bakeries in this town have fared? Most have folded within six months of opening. Those that have hung on have had to diversify (selling coffee and sandwiches, and thus having to hire more people and buy more supplies) and close on Wednesdays instead of Sundays.

No, the public gives a lot of lip service to wanting quality products and standing up for the worker and traditional values, but they vote with their wallets. So in order for me to do what I love, what I do well, and make a decent wage, I have to be part of the corporate world and let Wal*Mart deal with all the headaches. I am fortunate that my immediate supervisor does her best to accommodate me (I have actually been able to have Sundays off, although I am expected to help out on busy Sundays, like Mother’s Day and graduation weekend) because I sure as heck can’t afford to work from home.

 

[wynnejj]

I hear this kind of thing a lot. I agree that there are some bad business owners out there who would grumble about giving their own mother a day off, but by and large I think you’re angry with the wrong group of people.

Employers aren’t the problem- they are responding to market forces to ensure that their businesses remain competitive. In my experience, the number one reason that businesses are slow to shift to flex hours is not because they are evil, they are afraid that it will lead to a decrease in customer satisfaction- which puts their business (and your job) at risk.

The problem is with us- because we are all consumers in the marketplace, and the market is giving us exactly what we tell them to- because if they don’t then we get mad and take our business elsewhere.

• We, the consumers, want to go shopping on holidays, so employers have to open their doors or we stop shopping at their store.
• We want to go out to eat on Sunday after Church, and so employers have to make their staff get up early to go to work (and miss Church in the process, by the way), or we get mad and stop eating at their restaurant.
• We want a live person sitting at the tech support hotline when our computer breaks at 3a.m. And if they don’t then we get furious and vow never to buy that brand of computer again.

The next time you’re angry with a business because they aren’t providing you good service, you should consider whether that employer is sacrificing your needs as a consumer in order to respect their employee’s rights as human beings.

There are businesses that strive to be different, though- take Chik-fil-a, for example. They are never open on Sundays or Holidays, and most locations state right on their posted hours display that they close on Sundays so their employees can rest and spend time with their families. I was never a big fan of that chain before, but now I will drive out of my way to go there when I’m in the mood for fast food.

Change your habits as a consumer, and businesses will be able to allow you to change your habits as an employee.

 

[geezerbob]

JMJ, go back and read Genesis again. Exactly what was it that God told Adam and Eve when He kicked 'em out of the garden? It has always applied to me and I don’t recall it ever having been changed. Any reason why you should be exempt from it?

 

[Michael_David]

A few weeks ago we went to a local restaurant for lunch, we go there fairly often through the year. (Normally there are a host and 4 waitresses with 2-3 cooks during the busy times). As we waited for the host, there was none… one of the 2 waitresses came up to seat us. As I looked around, there was only 1 other waitress as well as just 1 cook… no other staff there.
Double work for the staff that was there to keep up with the normal customer’s. Needless to say, our normal 45 minute to an hour lunch time came to over an hour and a half by the time we left. Everything got taken to ‘half-time’ as far as being served. A number of people left because they did not want to wait; a lot of them left no tip for the scant-wage waitress (even though she was working twice as hard then she would have to if everyone showed up).
After seeing the situation and chatting with the waitress, we left a sizable tip and I told her she done very well ‘considering’ the odds that she had to deal with. She looked at me in amazement… I felt blessed.

You see, I am in the service sector also, and know what can happen (beyond one’s control), and how much weight can be put on the one’s that are there to weather the storm.
One works for the employer and if they go under, so do you.

 

[JMJ_coder]

JMJ, go back and read Genesis again. Exactly what was it that God told Adam and Eve when He kicked 'em out of the garden? It has always applied to me and I don’t recall it ever having been changed. Any reason why you should be exempt from it?

Re-read it yourself! I don’t recall God saying “Only by a 9-5 job in corporate America will you eat”. Nor did He say that if anyone doesn’t work 40 hours a week at said job they are a shirker. I think a lot of people have forgotten that there are other forms of work than just what an employer will pay you for.

No one pays me to put in a garden, but that is certainly work. Nor does anyone pay me to cut and split firewood for the winter, but that is also work. There are countless more examples.

What my point is, there should be the option to limit the amount of time in the work that someone pays you for in a job (which in our form of economy is still needed to pay for certain things), to pursue other avenues. Perhaps someone would wants to develop a new invention that will revolutionize the world - most inventors didn’t do their inventing on the bossman’s dime. They did it in non-formal-employed time. Many didn’t even have what we would consider a job.

Many throughout the centuries didn’t have jobs as we have them. They would either work the land (for themselves or their lord) or setup shop for some sort of trade.

 

[Oscarthecat]

What my point is, there should be the option to limit the amount of time in the work that someone pays you for in a job (which in our form of economy is still needed to pay for certain things), to pursue other avenues.

This actually exists now- it is called the “hourly wage.” From what I understand, it is fairly common.

Many throughout the centuries didn’t have jobs as we have them. They would either work the land (for themselves or their lord) or setup shop for some sort of trade.

This is common today, too- it is called "being self-employed. It is perfectly legal, and can be highly lucrative. You are free to take your career into your own hands, and offer your services on a contract basis. For example, if you enjoy gardening, and are good at it, why not start a landscaping business? I have a friend from highschool who mowed lawns for extra cash- he kept doing it through college, and since he enjoyed it he just kept doing it after college- over time he grew it into a very lucrative company, and he doesn’t have to work anymore, but he still mows lawns every day because he enjoys it.

Also, if you have the land and the know-how, then you can always to “go off the grid,” so to speak, and become self sufficient by growing and eating your own food, and trading with others or doing occasional contract work to obtain those things you can’t produce yourself.

This isn’t all that common in this day and age, but it isn’t unheard of, either. In fact, I think that in the mid-70’s, the BBC had a sit-com called “The Good Life” about a couple who did exactly that in a suburban neighborhood. That was a good show.

I get the feeling that you don’t like your job, your boss, or both.
Maybe you should look for another job, or think about another career that would better suit your interests.

 

[cynic]

I get the feeling that you don’t like your job, your boss, or both.
Maybe you should look for another job, or think about another career that would better suit your interests.

That’s a nice way out of acknowledging the issue. If you don’t like working 60+ hours a week, then go somewhere else, where you’ll likely to be asked to work 60+ hours a week. Your comments about retail staffing make sense to a point, but you don’t think employers across industries would like their staff to work those sort of hours? The only thing limiting it at the moment in low paid wage work is overtime rates, which I suspect you think should be abolished, because it ‘punishes’ business owners.

“The Good Life”? Surprising that you even got that show.

 

[Oscarthecat]

That’s a nice way out of acknowledging the issue. If you don’t like working 60+ hours a week, then go somewhere else, where you’ll likely to be asked to work 60+ hours a week.

What are you talking about? If you don’t want to work 60+ hours per week, then you should find a job that doesn’t expect as many hours. If you quit one 60+ hours per week job and take another one just like it, then it sounds like you weren’t up front about your expectations during the interview.

If 60+ hours per week is normal for your chosen career, then maybe you chose the wrong career.

If you can’t find someone who will employ you for less than 60 hours per week, and really want to stay in your field, then take the risk and become self employed. Of course, people who are self-employed often work a lot more than those who are not- and they don’t get the satisfaction of blaming their boss for their long hours.

Your comments about retail staffing make sense to a point, but you don’t think employers across industries would like their staff to work those sort of hours? The only thing limiting it at the moment in low paid wage work is overtime rates, which I suspect you think should be abolished, because it ‘punishes’ business owners.

Again, if someone doesn’t want to work the hours expected by their employer, they need to address it with their employer, and if that fails, they should find a job better suited to them.

If the employer’s expectations really are unreasonable, then they will have high turnover. Eventually, most employers will adjust their expectations to reduce turnover because high turnover is costly.

It is kind of sad that you think people should just sit quietly in a job they hate and wait for the government to come save them.

“The Good Life”? Surprising that you even got that show.

Actually, I really enjoyed that show- and it is completely consistent with what I have been saying. The main characters on the show didn’t like their jobs- so they quit, and pursued a way of life they found fulfilling and meaningful. They didn’t earn as much money, but they were happier.

I’m curious as to why you are criticizing me for giving the OP the same advice?

 

[cynic]

What are you talking about? If you don’t want to work 60+ hours per week, then you should find a job that doesn’t expect as many hours. If you quit one 60+ hours per week job and take another one just like it, then it sounds like you weren’t up front about your expectations during the interview.

If 60+ hours per week is normal for your chosen career, then maybe you chose the wrong career.

If you can’t find someone who will employ you for less than 60 hours per week, and really want to stay in your field, then take the risk and become self employed. Of course, people who are self-employed often work a lot more than those who are not- and they don’t get the satisfaction of blaming their boss for their long hours.

Highly paid professionals have some bargaining power. If long hours are standard they still get compensated financially for the loss of time to spend with family/friends, giving them options to go elsewhere in the future, or start their own business.

Semi-skilled wage earners near the breadline have less to bargain with, I mean where are they going to go? Another job that offers similiar conditions (once the overtime rates are gone),where every boss says “if you don’t like it, get lost”.

Again, if someone doesn’t want to work the hours expected by their employer, they need to address it with their employer, and if that fails, they should find a job better suited to them.

If the employer’s expectations really are unreasonable, then they will have high turnover. Eventually, most employers will adjust their expectations to reduce turnover because high turnover is costly.

Yeah until all employers start demanding same.

Again that is, once overtime rates dissapear, just as you free market fundamentalists would like to see happen.

Actually, I really enjoyed that show- and it is completely consistent with what I have been saying. The main characters on the show didn’t like their jobs- so they quit, and pursued a way of life they found fulfilling and meaningful. They didn’t earn as much money, but they were happier.

I’m curious as to why you are criticizing me for giving the OP the same advice?

What I meant was I’m surprised that show was aired in the U.S. (not on-topic)

Did you also get “Ever Decreasing Circles” and “To the Manor Born”?