Empress Theodora - Saint?

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I have a real fondness for the Orthodox saint Empress Theodora wife of Justinian.

She did much to improve women’s rights, through her influence elevating the status of Byzantine women far above that of those in Islamic or European countries of later centuries.

Can she be venerated by Catholics as a saint as our Orthodox brethren do? She has traditionally had a bad reputation in the West and this seems to stem from the works of the biased historian Prokopios.

I am a real fan of the former actress turned pious religious woman turned Empress,

I get quite cross when my fellow Catholics “diss” her :rolleyes:

So what is she - Saint or not so-saintly?
 
If she’s not a Saint in the Catholic Church… she’s not a Saint in the Catholic Church. 🙂
 
If she’s not a Saint in the Catholic Church… she’s not a Saint in the Catholic Church. 🙂
She may not be on the universal calendar, but that doens’t mean that she can’t be venerated privately or locally…there are many examples of “local” cults.
 
We named one of our daughters after her, if you can count that as an example of “local” devotion. I was shocked at how few people knew who she is.
 
We named one of our daughters after her, if you can count that as an example of “local” devotion. I was shocked at how few people knew who she.
Fascinating! Thank you for telling us this 🙂

She was the most influential Byzantine or indeed Roman Empress in the entire history of the Empire and one of the most potent female role models of all time. So your daughter couldn’t be named after a more incredibleLady 😃

I personally hope to see more Catholics venerating Orthodox saints and more Orthodox venerating Catholic saints.
 
There are two St Theodora’s who were Byzantine Empresses.

St Theodora, the wife of emperor Theophilus the Iconoclast, later introduced the “Feast of Orthodoxy” on the first Sunday in Lent to commemorate the Church’s defeat of iconoclasm.

St Theodora, wife of St Justinian, is honoured with her husband, but she does not have the cultus that the former St Theodora has.

There are about 20 emperors and empresses in the Greek calendar who are there because they have a claim on the Church’s gratitude for what they did for the Church in life. For the most part, their cultus is not necessarily liturgical but is more along the lines of a commemoration - with exceptions.

Both Theodora’s are in the calendars of Byzantine Catholics.

Not all the saints on the Latin Church calendar are honoured in the Eastern Catholic Churches and vice-versa.

Pope Liberius, for example, although a Roman pope, is not honoured in the Latin Church as a saint, but he is so honoured in the Catholic and Orthodox East.

There are many, many more saints and beati locally honoured everywhere. (Many Roman Catholic bishops continued to beatify their local saints even after Pope Urban’s decree that beatification was to be reserved to Rome alone - Blessed John Duns Scotus, the Franciscan theologian who defended and explained the theology behind the Immaculate Conception, was beatified recently by Bl. Pope John Paul II. But his cult as a local Beatus has existed for many years in Italy where he was locally beatified soon after his death.

Alex
 
There are two St Theodora’s who were Byzantine Empresses.

St Theodora, the wife of emperor Theophilus the Iconoclast, later introduced the “Feast of Orthodoxy” on the first Sunday in Lent to commemorate the Church’s defeat of iconoclasm.

St Theodora, wife of St Justinian, is honoured with her husband, but she does not have the cultus that the former St Theodora has.

There are about 20 emperors and empresses in the Greek calendar who are there because they have a claim on the Church’s gratitude for what they did for the Church in life. For the most part, their cultus is not necessarily liturgical but is more along the lines of a commemoration - with exceptions.

Both Theodora’s are in the calendars of Byzantine Catholics.

Not all the saints on the Latin Church calendar are honoured in the Eastern Catholic Churches and vice-versa.

Pope Liberius, for example, although a Roman pope, is not honoured in the Latin Church as a saint, but he is so honoured in the Catholic and Orthodox East.

There are many, many more saints and beati locally honoured everywhere. (Many Roman Catholic bishops continued to beatify their local saints even after Pope Urban’s decree that beatification was to be reserved to Rome alone - Blessed John Duns Scotus, the Franciscan theologian who defended and explained the theology behind the Immaculate Conception, was beatified recently by Bl. Pope John Paul II. But his cult as a local Beatus has existed for many years in Italy where he was locally beatified soon after his death.

Alex
Thank you very much Alexander! Most illuminating! 👍
 
She may not be on the universal calendar, but that doens’t mean that she can’t be venerated privately or locally…there are many examples of “local” cults.
I thought that someone had to be recognised by the Church before we can ask for their intercession.
So then, what do you think?
No, Theodora is not a ‘capital S’ Saint.
 
I thought that someone had to be recognised by the Church before we can ask for their intercession.I think I have no authority to recognise who is a Saint and who isn’t.
They have to be recognized by the Church before we can honor them LITURGICIALLY (masses in their honor…statues/icons in churches…public processions…that sort of thing)…but it is not wrong to foster a PRIVATE devotion to someone you believe to be in heaven, even if they have not been formally recognized by the Church. That being said, in the case of St. Theodora, she is on the Byzantine Catholic calendar and thus recognized by several particular churches in the Catholic communion; that is, parishes belonging to these particular churches can honor her liturgically.
 
They have to be recognized by the Church before we can honor them LITURGICIALLY (masses in their honor…statues/icons in churches…public processions…that sort of thing)…but it is not wrong to foster a PRIVATE devotion to someone you believe to be in heaven, even if they have not been formally recognized by the Church.
I didn’t know that. If someone believed Stalin repented and converted on his deathbed was in heaven it would be ok to ask Stalin to pray for them? I can’t and don’t want to say anyone is damned but I am trying to use an example of someone who did not live a saintly life.
That being said, in the case of St. Theodora, she is on the Byzantine Catholic calendar and thus recognized by several particular churches in the Catholic communion; that is, parishes belonging to these particular churches can honor her liturgically.
I thought she was just an Orthodox saint. My bad.

The thing is, lots of things are done ‘locally’ which the Church disapproves of. If the Vatican is OK with Catholics in the East (or wherever) venerating Orthodox Saints, alright then. :o

By the way do Eastern Churches canonize their own Saints?
 
I didn’t know that. If someone believed Stalin repented and converted on his deathbed was in heaven it would be ok to ask Stalin to pray for them? I can’t and don’t want to say anyone is damned but I am trying to use an example of someone who did not live a saintly life.I thought she was just an Orthodox saint. My bad.The thing is, lots of things are done ‘locally’ which the Church disapproves of. If the Vatican is OK with Catholics in the East (or wherever) venerating Orthodox Saints, alright then. :o

By the way do Eastern Churches canonize their own Saints?
The Vatican is ok with Byzantines ANYWHERE venerating this and many other non Roman saints. :mad:
 
Dear St Owen,

(Owen is Welsh for “Eugene” is it not?)

The Eastern Orthodox Churches do indeed canonize or glorify their own Saints, just as Roman Catholic bishops used to locally canonize their own saints or beatify them until Pope Urban VIII reserved that right to Rome.

Last week, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church canonized some new Saints, including St Anthony Abashidze, an ethnic Georgian and Archbishop who lived and died at the Kyiv Caves Lavra, St Steven Nalyvayko, a martyr under the Soviets and St Sergius Bondarenko, a New Hieromartyr under the Soviets.

In 1999, the Patriarchate of Constantinople canonized St Cyril VI, Patriarch of Constantinople who was brutally martyred under the Ottoman Turks.

Since 1991, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has canonized more than 250 saints, many of them martyred by the Soviets.

The Orthodox Church does have “grades” of sainthood, with local canonizations done even in large monastic foundations such as Mt Athos, then regional, national and finally universal veneration of a Saint (in the Middle Ages, there was no difference between the titles of “Blessed” and “Saint” in the RC Church as well).

Before St Josaphat was canonized by Rome, there was a lively debate within the Ukrainian Catholic Church about whether it could canonize its own saints without Rome - the matter was left unsettled and Rome went ahead and canonized Josaphat in 1875, but initially for veneration in Eastern Catholic Churches alone. It was only in 1888 that Josaphat’s cult was extended to the Latin Church.

And, in fact, the cult of the Orthodox martyr Saint Athanasius Filipovich, Archimandrite of Brest, who was killed by the Poles for attacking the Unia, was much more popular among Eastern Catholics . . .

Alex
 
Dear St Owen,

(Owen is Welsh for “Eugene” is it not?)

The Eastern Orthodox Churches do indeed canonize or glorify their own Saints, just as Roman Catholic bishops used to locally canonize their own saints or beatify them until Pope Urban VIII reserved that right to Rome.

Last week, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church canonized some new Saints, including St Anthony Abashidze, an ethnic Georgian and Archbishop who lived and died at the Kyiv Caves Lavra, St Steven Nalyvayko, a martyr under the Soviets and St Sergius Bondarenko, a New Hieromartyr under the Soviets.

In 1999, the Patriarchate of Constantinople canonized St Cyril VI, Patriarch of Constantinople who was brutally martyred under the Ottoman Turks.

Since 1991, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has canonized more than 250 saints, many of them martyred by the Soviets.

etc
Owen might be Welsh for Eugene, I don’t know. St Owen

Thanks for your post. I know the Orthodox canonize their own saints (of course they do) but do the Eastern Catholic churches? From your post I think you’ve said they do not.
 
Its possible that some are raised to repentance and become saints.
 
The St. Theodora of Prokopian infamy was suspected for a long time of sympathies to Monophysitism, because she ended the political persecution against them.

Also, as one Byzantinist I know argued, while the scurrillous attacks made against her by Prokopios are obviously hyperbole, they would not have been made if Prokopios did not have a reason - he risked his life by writing it. She probably was from a lower-class background and a circus performer, though it is doubtful that she engaged in the level of lewdness Prokopios describes. Today we are a bit more enlightened (or maybe just more politically correct) and regard her “underdog” background as something we admire, not grounds for attack.

In general, Eastern Catholics will venerate ALL Orthodox saints, but there are some who would be difficult to justify venerating liturgically because of their opposition to Unia or because of their martyrdom by our fellow Catholics - St. Athanasius Filipovich, St. Peter the Aleut, St. Mark of Ephesus, St. Alexis Toth, and St. Cyril VI (whom I have a particular distaste for because his Calvinist beliefs are pretty well historically grounded, pace the Greek Orthodox rebuttal). I venerate St. Alexis Toth because his defection to Orthodoxy was justified by his canonical rights which were being violated by Archbishop Ireland (something the sainted professor of canon law very well knew). But I do not want to fall into the Anglican habit to venerate EVERYONE including people that were martyred for heresy by true Catholics, as if simply dying for a cause were enough grounds for sanctity without regard for the matter of the cause, that is the truth of what they were martyred for. I do not venerate Jan Hus, for example, nor Cranmer.
 
Owen might be Welsh for Eugene, I don’t know. St Owen

Thanks for your post. I know the Orthodox canonize their own saints (of course they do) but do the Eastern Catholic churches? From your post I think you’ve said they do not.
Yes, we don’t but there is no reason why we should not. Our previous Patriarch, Lubomyr, took a step in that direction when he translated the Relics of Bl. Nicholas Charnetsky and declared a feastday for that translation.

That never happened in the UGCC before and was truly a great “flexing of Particular muscle” on his part.

Rome likes to lecture us on being true to our Eastern traditions - but what would happen if we took Rome at its word and began to glorify our own saints?

Alex
 
Dear Cecilianus,

You raise a large number of fascinating points of discussion! 🙂

From my POV, St Theodora was under suspicion simply because of her ecumenical stance toward the Miaphysites (in an age not particularly known for irenical attitudes). She was entrusted with this project by her husband himself who wanted reunion with the Miaphysites and he even told their leaders that the excommunications pronounced against their teachers “could be withdrawn by a future reunion Council.”

It was largely thanks to St Theodora that we have the hymn “O Only Begotten Son and Word . . .” in our liturgy (written by the Miaphysite teacher, Severus of Antioch).

The Byzantine polemicists sought to discredit her by every possible means, as a result. That is nothing new when it comes to saints or famous historical personages.

St Athanasius of Brest was WILDLY popular among Eastern Catholics because he stood up to the Poles who were imposing a Latinized form of spirituality on them. For example, they were sending out gendarmes to the villages to ensure that the Filioque was pronounced during the singing of the Creed etc.

The Polish Jesuits became very concerned about the popularity of St Athanasius among EC’s and his pilgrimage on September 18th that they actually moved the feast day of St Josaphat to September 16th to try and dislodge that veneration (I’ve an old EC office-book that lists St Josaphat’s feast day on September 16th - Met. Andrew Sheptytsky later moved it back to November 25th). St Athanasius was martyred by “true Catholics” as you’ve said - in that case I don’t want to have anything to do with such “Catholics.”

St Cyril Lukaris is truly a controversial figure - again because of bad press that was unchecked for a long time by the Orthodox church authorities. But the Ecumenical Patriarchate itself has pronounced favourably on St Cyril and dismissed the charges of Calvinism against him. All that Cyril Lukaris was guilty of was being a very effective defender of his Church and people. The Ukrainian Orthodox have privately venerated him as “one of their own” because he was martyred by the Turks on the charge that he had close relations with the Kozaks and was encouraging them to fight the Turks etc. This is mentioned in the Ukrainian language book by Met. Ilarion Ohienko “The canonization of Saints in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.” I think we can get over the bad press St Cyril was subject to in time . . . And I don’t think there is a requirement to have to like the Jesuits and their historic political chicanery as a precondition to being a good Catholic! 😉

As for Jan Hus, he died a Catholic priest, although defrocked. Bl. John Paul had expressed his public sorrow that Hus was done to death and RC prelates attend the annual commemoration of Jan Hus in Prague (which occured two days ago).

He was much admired by the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko who wrote in his poem to Shafarik: Accept my duma about the holy Czech, the great martyr, the glorious Hus!"

Hus was seen by ROC teachers in the 19th century as beckoning people back to the traditions of the Cyril and Methodian traditions of his country. The Czech Orthodox Church commemorates Hus publicly (as for one who has reposed) on July 6th, together with Jerome of Prague, King George of Podebrady, Michal Polak and the 240+ Hussite martyrs of Kutna Hora. I’ve articles in Czech by Orthodox who promote the idea of the public, liturgical veneration of Hus in the Czech Orthodox Church (whose veneration is already widespread there).

And Jerome of Prague, Hus’s friend in the same cause, was baptized an Orthodox Christian in Latvia (they now have his original baptismal certificate) and there are “voices within the Czech Orthodox Church” that promote his canonization as well.

The movement to rehabilitate Hus is underway in the RC Church and is especially being promoted by certain elements within the Catholic Church in Germany.

Hus promoted purity among the clergy and otherwise decried clerical materialism. He opposed the collection and mining of Czech silver for purposes of supporting religious wars, promoted the use of the national language in the Liturgy and in sermons, Communion in both Kinds. He had a great devotion to the Mother of God and affirmed her heavenly Assumption.

Jan Hus died forgiving his enemies, pronouncing the Creed and reciting the Jesus Prayer as the flames of the stake enveloped him.

The Jesuits in Bohemia became likewise concerned that Catholics were venerating Hus as a national saint/martyr and so the controversy over the cultus of St John Nepomucene developed (very much like that of St Josaphat).

In 1963, Rome quietly dropped St John Nepomucene from the universal calendar.

Alex
 
In general, Eastern Catholics will venerate ALL Orthodox saints, but there are some who would be difficult to justify venerating liturgically because of their opposition to Unia or because of their martyrdom by our fellow Catholics - St. Athanasius Filipovich, St. Peter the Aleut, St. Mark of Ephesus,** St. Alexis Toth**, and St. Cyril VI (whom I have a particular distaste for because his Calvinist beliefs are pretty well historically grounded, pace the Greek Orthodox rebuttal). I venerate **St. Alexis Toth **because his defection to Orthodoxy was justified by his canonical rights which were being violated by Archbishop Ireland (something the sainted professor of canon law very well knew). But I do not want to fall into the Anglican habit to venerate EVERYONE including people that were martyred for heresy by true Catholics, as if simply dying for a cause were enough grounds for sanctity without regard for the matter of the cause, that is the truth of what they were martyred for. I do not venerate Jan Hus, for example, nor Cranmer.
We pretty much follow the Russian Orthodox calendar at my parish. We have DL on first Saturdays. I started to chuckle when in May the choir began to sing the Troparia and Kontakia commemorating St. Alexis, it being his Feastday. “He called back the sheep who had been led astray” I believe that would be us sheep… still “astray”… I’ve mentioned it someplace else. Well ,the OCA has been very good to me, and as you say the Latin bishops were badly mistaken in pushing that course about our married clergy. We will never fully recover from the damage that has caused.
 
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