Emptying out the holy water stoups in Lent

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Leon_Bloy

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Let’s hope this is becoming more and more rare 🙂

Before Wednesday rolls around, it might be useful for readers to know - those who don’t already know, that is - that it’s not permitted to remove the holy water from the stoups at church doors until the Sacred Triduum beginning on Holy Thursday with the Mass of the Lord’s Supper.

Perhaps readers who encounter this unfortunate situation can gently and kindly notify their friendly local sacristan:

wdtprs.com/blog/2009/02/quaeritur-removing-holy-water-during-lent/

Here is the letter from Rome regarding it:

"This Congregation for Divine Worship has received your letter sent by fax in which you ask whether it is in accord with liturgical law to remove the Holy Water from the fonts for the duration of the season of Lent.
Code: 
This Dicastery is able to respond that the removing of Holy Water from the fonts during the season of Lent is not permitted, in particular, for two reasons:

1. The liturgical legislation in force does not foresee this innovation, which in addition to being praeter legem is contrary to a balanced understanding of the season of Lent, which though truly being a season of penance, is also a season rich in the symbolism of water and baptism, constantly evoked in liturgical texts.

2. The encouragement of the Church that the faithful avail themselves frequently of the [sic] of her sacraments and sacramentals is to be understood to apply also to the season of Lent. The "fast" and "abstinence" which the faithful embrace in this season does not extend to abstaining from the sacraments or sacramentals of the Church. The practice of the Church has been to empty the Holy Water fonts on the days of the Sacred Triduum in preparation of the blessing of the water at the Easter Vigil, and it corresponds to those days on which the Eucharist is not celebrated (i.e., Good Friday and Holy Saturday).

Hoping that this resolves the question and with every good wish and kind regard, I am,

Sincerely yours in Christ,
[signed]
Mons. Mario Marini [Now the Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei]
Undersecretary
👍
 
They still do it all too often here in L.A. (at least it was so last Lent. Hopefully, the new archbishop will set things straight). I get so frustrated when I approach the holy water stoup and find pebbles, or sand, or nothing!
 
Christofirst,

I encourage you to respectfully speak up and ask that the holy water be replaced! God bless you!
 
Yes, I suppose I need to man up and do just that. One of our local parishes stopped using the holy water fonts by the doors all together. They have a holy water bird bath in the vestibule, and a holy water hot tub by the altar!
 
christofirst said:
Yes, I suppose I need to man up and do just that. One of our local parishes stopped using the holy water fonts by the doors all together. They have a holy water bird bath in the vestibule, and a holy water hot tub by the altar!
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Holy Water bird bath? Yikes! 😃
 
christofirst said:
They have a holy water bird bath in the vestibule
Click to expand...
:rotfl::rotfl:

We have one of those (aka the Baptismal Font) at the back of the Sanctuary which usually has it’s fancy lid on it, unless it’s actually being used for a Baptism. There are small holy water fonts at each entrance for “normal” use. However, if I remember correctly from last year, during Lent the small wall-mounted fonts were emptied AND the “lid” was removed from the Baptismal Font. This became the source of Holy Water for blessing as one entered/left church. The idea was to more forcefully connect the blessing with Baptism during the penitential season of Lent.

We’ll have to see if I remembered correctly. Guess I’ll find out in a couple of days.
 
Our church empties the holy water every single year from Ash Wednesday through all of Lent. 😦
 
I’ve heard of this before but never personally seen it, but come to think of it I’ve only attended Lenten Masses at one parish before.

I’ve never heard the word “stoup” before. I’m guessing those are the little bowls by the door attached to the wall. We just call them fonts, though I suppose that’s not the proper name.
 
anp1215 said:
I’ve heard of this before but never personally seen it, but come to think of it I’ve only attended Lenten Masses at one parish before.

I’ve never heard the word “stoup” before. I’m guessing those are the little bowls by the door attached to the wall. We just call them fonts, though I suppose that’s not the proper name.
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As far as I know, that is the traditional and proper name, font.
 
Leon_Bloy said:
Let’s hope this is becoming more and more rare 🙂

Before Wednesday rolls around, it might be useful for readers to know - those who don’t already know, that is - that it’s not permitted to remove the holy water from the stoups at church doors until the Sacred Triduum beginning on Holy Thursday with the Mass of the Lord’s Supper.

Perhaps readers who encounter this unfortunate situation can gently and kindly notify their friendly local sacristan:

wdtprs.com/blog/2009/02/quaeritur-removing-holy-water-during-lent/

Here is the letter from Rome regarding it:

"This Congregation for Divine Worship has received your letter sent by fax in which you ask whether it is in accord with liturgical law to remove the Holy Water from the fonts for the duration of the season of Lent.
Code: 
This Dicastery is able to respond that the removing of Holy Water from the fonts during the season of Lent is not permitted, in particular, for two reasons:

1. The liturgical legislation in force does not foresee this innovation, which in addition to being praeter legem is contrary to a balanced understanding of the season of Lent, which though truly being a season of penance, is also a season rich in the symbolism of water and baptism, constantly evoked in liturgical texts.

2. The encouragement of the Church that the faithful avail themselves frequently of the [sic] of her sacraments and sacramentals is to be understood to apply also to the season of Lent. The "fast" and "abstinence" which the faithful embrace in this season does not extend to abstaining from the sacraments or sacramentals of the Church. The practice of the Church has been to empty the Holy Water fonts on the days of the Sacred Triduum in preparation of the blessing of the water at the Easter Vigil, and it corresponds to those days on which the Eucharist is not celebrated (i.e., Good Friday and Holy Saturday).

Hoping that this resolves the question and with every good wish and kind regard, I am,

Sincerely yours in Christ,
[signed]
Mons. Mario Marini [Now the Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei]
Undersecretary
👍
Click to expand...
Leon_Bloy said:
Perhaps readers who encounter this unfortunate situation can gently and kindly notify their friendly local sacristan:
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt that the sacristan in charge of replenishing new water to-be-blessed or removing old tainted Holy Water from the Church fonts and receptacles {“had any say in the matter”} but was under order to remove Holy Water from the fonts by order of the parish priest himself, ("Which we all know is not allowed during Lent until after Holy Thursday").

Having worked and served with several priests as a former sacristan, I only ran into one priest who asked me to remove all water from the Holy Water fonts during Lent.
I was in no position to argue despite my own concerns in following the G.I.R.M.
My position was one of obedience. So; for one Lent Season everybody pounded sand when they entered the Church for the six weeks of Lent because all the fonts were filled with sand. Apparently someone sitting in the parish liturgical committee found symbolism in pounding sand for one Lent season and the parish priest went along with it.

Well; lets just say it wasn’t received very well that Lenten Season. Thankfully; the norms of the G.I.R.M. should always followed. No Catholic Faithful should ever be denied Holy Water during Lent.
 
I am thankful that this is not a common practice around here at least not that I have encountered, and definitely not the pebbles or sand.

Is the sand trying to simulate Christ’s 40 days in the desert or something?:confused:
 
FromTheAshes777 said:
I am thankful that this is not a common practice around here at least not that I have encountered, and definitely not the pebbles or sand.

Is the sand trying to simulate Christ’s 40 days in the desert or something?:confused:
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Is the sand trying to simulate Christ’s 40 days in the desert or something?
Click to expand...
That was the intended symbolism. Too bad those who implemented it had their eyes blinded by the sand and needed Jesus’s spittle to clear their eyes.😉
 
After four years of battling at my local parish, the holy water stays in the stoups at the doors, although the very large baptismal font (whirlpool 😃 seats 6) the water is drained and remains dry for Lent.

However in regards to the stoups, while the holy water is retained for Lent, they are filled with rocks… penance for the Sacristan I assume. 🤷
 
Centurian Guard, the reason I said “sacristan” was because I thought it might be more prudent to approach a fellow lay person (especially if they are in the same situation you were, of not agreeing with the practice) who would then be able to say “hey Father, remember when you said to empty out the fonts? Well, some person came up to me after mass yesterday and said that’s not in keeping with the Church’s regulations/practice/etc…” That could perhaps remove the “confrontational” issue from the table… and if it is the sacristan himself doing it, it would save the priest another battle (I know many priests who have these troubles with lay “ministers”)… 😉
 
Several years ago, our previous archbishop, Cardinal Maida, send a letter to all the parishes in the archdiocese forbidding the emptying the holy water stoups during Lent.

The letter was particularly timely, as I was having an ongoing email discussion with the parish DRE about it.

Our current archbishop, +Vigneron, has wisely continued the prohibition 👍
 
Update: Today is Ash Wednesday, and the holy water was still there by the doors at my home parish! Not sure yet about my innovative neighboring parish. Also, there was a big crowd for 6:30 a.m. Mass, almost like a Sunday. We’re off to a good start.
 
The Holy Water was gone at our Parish on Ash Wednesday. Made me mad.

I sent the priests and deacon an email about this with the link to fr z’s blog. Hopefully it doesn’t get me in trouble.
 
Leon_Bloy said:
Centurian Guard, the reason I said “sacristan” was because I thought it might be more prudent to approach a fellow lay person (especially if they are in the same situation you were, of not agreeing with the practice) who would then be able to say “hey Father, remember when you said to empty out the fonts? Well, some person came up to me after mass yesterday and said that’s not in keeping with the Church’s regulations/practice/etc…” That could perhaps remove the “confrontational” issue from the table… and if it is the sacristan himself doing it, it would save the priest another battle (I know many priests who have these troubles with lay “ministers”)… 😉
Click to expand...
Why blame the sacristan specifically?
It is the sacristan’s duty to obediently serve the interests of the priest.

When I was sacristan for almost ten years I knew my duties and never took it upon myself to carry out tasks without the expressed wishes of my parish priest without informing him. When I was told to fill the fonts and stoups with sand during one season of Lent it wasn’t my position to argue with the priest I was serving. Any different sentiments I felt aside about it were irrelevant. My job was strictly one of obedience, humility, and loyalty to my priest.😉
 
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