EM's still purifiing vessels?

[Chickamauga]

At our parish the purification of vessels is still being done by the EMs. Our priest says we won’t follow Rome’s orders about this until the Archbishop passes the word because that’s the way it’s always been done. Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man so I don’t doubt his word, but I am a bit uncomfortable that the practice of EMs purifying vessels is continuing when the Vatican’s order is well known and very clear.

Any thoughts on this? Is waiting for the local Archbishop to offcially dispense with the indult the way things are done in your diocese?

 

[kaygee]

Our bishop is giving the congregations until the First Sunday of Advent to get their acts together. On that date the rule for EM’s will take effect. I noted an announcement in the bulletin at the cathedral for all EM’s to come to a mandatory training session next week.

 

[netmilsmom]

Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man

Not that orthodox or he would be obeying Rome, not looking for the loophole.

 

[steve_green_2]

Our bishop is giving the congregations until the First Sunday of Advent to get their acts together. On that date the rule for EM’s will take effect. I noted an announcement in the bulletin at the cathedral for all EM’s to come to a mandatory training session next week.

Priests purify the vessals, end of training, go home.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Priests purify the vessals, end of training, go home.

They could at least give them donuts and then send them home.

 

[Scottgun]

At our parish the purification of vessels is still being done by the EMs. Our priest says we won’t follow Rome’s orders about this until the Archbishop passes the word because that’s the way it’s always been done. Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man so I don’t doubt his word, but I am a bit uncomfortable that the practice of EMs purifying vessels is continuing when the Vatican’s order is well known and very clear.

Any thoughts on this? Is waiting for the local Archbishop to offcially dispense with the indult the way things are done in your diocese?

It’s the way things are done in every diocese. The priest’s boss is the bishop. In theory the Pope could boss a diocesan priest around, but he normally won’t do that so as not to step on the bishop’s toes. It hink it is called the principle of subsidiarity if I am not mistaken. So contact your bishop and ask how it will be implemented if there is a burning need to know. PLEASE do not annoy your local priest with, “Hey, the pope says…why haven’t you done it yet!?”

Scott

 

[Chickamauga]

Thanks to those of you who provided charitable, non-sarcastic, non-calumnious responses.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

At our parish the purification of vessels is still being done by the EMs. Our priest says we won’t follow Rome’s orders about this until the Archbishop passes the word because that’s the way it’s always been done. Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man so I don’t doubt his word, but I am a bit uncomfortable that the practice of EMs purifying vessels is continuing when the Vatican’s order is well known and very clear.

Any thoughts on this? Is waiting for the local Archbishop to offcially dispense with the indult the way things are done in your diocese?

It’s the way things are supposed to be done in every diocese.

 

[DiscerningDave]

This might be a stupid question (and I firmly believe the Pope’s moral and doctrinal teachings to be infallible), but what is the reason for this? I mean why can’t an Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist purify the cups, if taught the proper technique?
I am sure Jesus did not purify the grail after he used it. That was probably left to a woman or the knights templar once they got a hold of it and hid it in Roslyn (just kidding).

 

[netmilsmom]

I think it is called the principle of subsidiarity if I am not mistaken.

I thought that had to do with Social Justice.
CCC** 1883**
Socialization also presents dangers. Excessive intervention by the state can threaten personal freedom and initiative. The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of subsidiarity, according to which “a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to co-ordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.”

 

[kaygee]

Thanks to those of you who provided charitable, non-sarcastic, non-calumnious responses.

You’re welcome, and oh, btw, they probably will serve coffee and donuts to ease the weeping and wailing an gnashing of teeth

 

[Scottgun]

This might be a stupid question (and I firmly believe the Pope’s moral and doctrinal teachings to be infallible), but what is the reason for this? I mean why can’t an Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist purify the cups, if taught the proper technique?
I am sure Jesus did not purify the grail after he used it. That was probably left to a woman or the knights templar once they got a hold of it and hid it in Roslyn (just kidding).

Not a stupid question at all. It is not a doctrine but a practice. And while the pope is not infallible regarding practice, he is authoritative on it. (Or as Judge Mills Lane used to say, “I’m not final because I am right, I am right because I am final.” ) My wild guess is that the pope will not renew the indult because having the EMHC’s do it blurs the distinction between lay and clergy. In the recent past there has arguably been a signifcant downplaying of a priest to a mere functionary and this might be a step to correct that.

 

[Scottgun]

I thought that had to do with Social Justice.
CCC** 1883**
Socialization also presents dangers. Excessive intervention by the state can threaten personal freedom and initiative. The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of subsidiarity, according to which “a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to co-ordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.”

Yes, but I think in a broad sense it means the higher power respects the lower power and only directly goes past them for a serious reason.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

So, if laymen purifying vessels blurs the distinction between priests and laity, what does laymen distributing Communion do? I have trouble figuring out this newfangled Catholicism sometimes.

And it’s “collegiality.” That’s why the Pope won’t discipline bishops. Springtime.

 

[Scottgun]

So, if laymen purifying vessels blurs the distinction between priests and laity, what does laymen distributing Communion do? I have trouble figuring out this newfangled Catholicism sometimes.

Layman distributing communion does blur it, no argument there. But this is a case of having special permission to purify and the pope simply not renewing it. Easy pie. If someone has a better explanation of why he did not renew, I’d love to hear it.

And it’s “collegiality.” That’s why the Pope won’t discipline bishops. Springtime.

Yep. collegiality is probably the better term. No need for eye rolling.

Scott

 

[JimR-OCDS]

At our parish the purification of vessels is still being done by the EMs. Our priest says we won’t follow Rome’s orders about this until the Archbishop passes the word because that’s the way it’s always been done. Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man so I don’t doubt his word, but I am a bit uncomfortable that the practice of EMs purifying vessels is continuing when the Vatican’s order is well known and very clear.

Any thoughts on this? Is waiting for the local Archbishop to offcially dispense with the indult the way things are done in your diocese?

This is a horrible abuse!
You should fast for one month for atonment of this abuse.

 

[Primitive]

At our parish the purification of vessels is still being done by the EMs. Our priest says we won’t follow Rome’s orders about this until the Archbishop passes the word because that’s the way it’s always been done. Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man so I don’t doubt his word, but I am a bit uncomfortable that the practice of EMs purifying vessels is continuing when the Vatican’s order is well known and very clear.

Any thoughts on this? Is waiting for the local Archbishop to offcially dispense with the indult the way things are done in your diocese?

Refer to the Catechism of the Council of Trent (pages 253,254 in the TAN books edition). Or find the section about the Eucharist titled “The Minister of the Eucharist”.
It specifically states: “The laity prohibited to touch the Sacred Vessels,” then continues to explain why.

 

[gez722]

It’s the way things are done in every diocese. The priest’s boss is the bishop. In theory the Pope could boss a diocesan priest around, but he normally won’t do that so as not to step on the bishop’s toes. It hink it is called the principle of subsidiarity if I am not mistaken. So contact your bishop and ask how it will be implemented if there is a burning need to know. PLEASE do not annoy your local priest with, “Hey, the pope says…why haven’t you done it yet!?”
Scott

Actually, I’m one of those that have “annoyed” my pastor with a letter about this subject. I was motivated to do it when he said that it wouldn’t be possible for the deacons or priests to do the purification because there are too many cups used at each Mass (we use 5). In my letter, I suggested that we be proactive and implement the Holy Father’s directive before being mandated to do so by the Bishop. I am an EMHC and I generally see a lack of respect when the vessels are purified by the laity. At our Church, they are purified in the sacristy after communion and there a lot of inappropriate comments that take place at that time. I am still wrestling with the question of whether or not I did the right thing by writing the letter, but I believe I did. I have not heard back from the pastor, nor do I know if I will. I just felt that I had to do something. Incidentally, if this matter doesn’t get resolved in our parish I will most likely step down as a EMHC at Mass and just continue to bring Communion to the nursing home.

God Bless,
Gary

 

[Scottgun]

Actually, I’m one of those that have “annoyed” my pastor with a letter about this subject. I was motivated to do it when he said that it wouldn’t be possible for the deacons or priests to do the purification because there are too many cups used at each Mass (we use 5). In my letter, I suggested that we be proactive and implement the Holy Father’s directive before being mandated to do so by the Bishop. I am an EMHC and I generally see a lack of respect when the vessels are purified by the laity. At our Church, they are purified in the sacristy after communion and there a lot of inappropriate comments that take place at that time. I am still wrestling with the question of whether or not I did the right thing by writing the letter, but I believe I did. I have not heard back from the pastor, nor do I know if I will. I just felt that I had to do something. Incidentally, if this matter doesn’t get resolved in our parish I will most likely step down as a EMHC at Mass and just continue to bring Communion to the nursing home.

God Bless,
Gary

It may not have been apparent from the way I said it, but I am not against talking to the pastor about it. Rather I was worried about someone trying to beat the pastor over the head with it as if they were the papal police. I say one can talk to the pastor about it and accept his judgement–if he says I’m going to wait until instructed by the bishop, we should accept that. My main point that I wanted to get across is that the priest’s immediate boss is the bishop, and it is not unusual for them to wait for orders from them.

 

[estesbob]

At our parish the purification of vessels is still being done by the EMs. Our priest says we won’t follow Rome’s orders about this until the Archbishop passes the word because that’s the way it’s always been done. Our priest is a very orthodox and holy man so I don’t doubt his word, but I am a bit uncomfortable that the practice of EMs purifying vessels is continuing when the Vatican’s order is well known and very clear.

Any thoughts on this? Is waiting for the local Archbishop to offcially dispense with the indult the way things are done in your diocese?

I beleive your Pastor is correct. He is under the Direct Authority of his Bishop and must follow his instructions… If he disagrees with his Bishop he should prayerfully take it up with the Bisohos superior.