EMsHC Abuse?

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I was curious about what other people notice at their parishes regarding two serious liturgical abuses I see at my parish:

1.) At the kiss of peace a large group of EMsHC climb up onto the sanctuary and surround the altar well before the celebrant takes communion. (At least the EMsHC no longer receive communion in hand before the celebant takes communion.)

2.) Two “captain” EMHCs fraction the Precious Blood from a glass flagon into 4 chalices, and the Body of Christ from a large ciborium into 4 smaller ones. I have seen the “liturgy coordinator” herself drop at least one consecrated host into the plant beside the altar while she was fractioning.

Both are hardcore abuses and I think it’s about time to start a war. How are things in your parishes?
 
Kiss???:eek: I might kiss my wife, children, and a few close freinds, but usually just shake hands with others.
As for the rest never seen it. Although we usually have our deacon do that stuff, but if he is not there then the priest does it all. The only thing that does happen is if the deacon is not there, a EMC following the priest will administer the Blood to the other EMCs. The only thing that the EMC captains do it setup the calender and cordinate training in our parish.
 
In my Las Vegas parish, our EMsHC don’t go near the altar unless those who adm. the chalice are done/run out of the Consecrated Species, in which case they take the chalices/ciborii to the altar and leave them there. Our EMsHC rec. after the priest, at his hands, well away from the altar, over in front of the Tabernacle. He then brings them the Consecrated Species to distrbibute, gets his own ciborium from the altar, and they begin the communion of the faithful. There are only three chalices on the altar and no flagon, ever. The wine is divided before it is consecrated. Father Robert celebrates a reverent mass, with as little ego showing as is possible. :clapping:
 
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JKirkLVNV:
In my Las Vegas parish, our EMsHC don’t go near the altar unless those who adm. the chalice are done/run out of the Consecrated Species, in which case they take the chalices/ciborii to the altar and leave them there. Our EMsHC rec. after the priest, at his hands, well away from the altar, over in front of the Tabernacle. He then brings them the Consecrated Species to distrbibute, gets his own ciborium from the altar, and they begin the communion of the faithful. There are only three chalices on the altar and no flagon, ever. The wine is divided before it is consecrated. Father Robert celebrates a reverent mass, with as little ego showing as is possible. :clapping:
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Awesome.
 
Thank God I have not seen one!!! extraordinary minister of the Eucharist for about 6 months!! Do you know how they bring disrespect for the priest? The priest is the the priest, not mary jo[no offense to you mary jo] who takes over the role of the priest, for the Eucharist . Join the club… go to the TLM exclusively
 
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Crusader:
I was curious about what other people notice at their parishes regarding two serious liturgical abuses I see at my parish:

1.) At the kiss of peace a large group of EMsHC climb up onto the sanctuary and surround the altar well before the celebrant takes communion. (At least the EMsHC no longer receive communion in hand before the celebant takes communion.)

2.) Two “captain” EMHCs fraction the Precious Blood from a glass flagon into 4 chalices, and the Body of Christ from a large ciborium into 4 smaller ones. I have seen the “liturgy coordinator” herself drop at least one consecrated host into the plant beside the altar while she was fractioning.

Both are hardcore abuses and I think it’s about time to start a war. How are things in your parishes?
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“War” indeed!

#1 takes place at my parish also. And of course goes against the GIRM. I have begun this “war” by meeting with my pastor. We’ve had one meeting so far about 2 abuses, one of which is changed.

One step at a time and continued prayer. We have many other smaller abuses going on.

May we charitably defend what we’ve been handed down in perseverence and prayer.
 
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katolik:
Thank God I have not seen one!!! extraordinary minister of the Eucharist for about 6 months!! Do you know how they bring disrespect for the priest? The priest is the the priest, not mary jo[no offense to you mary jo] who takes over the role of the priest, for the Eucharist . Join the club… go to the TLM exclusively
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Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion do not “take over” for the priest – at least in my parish, but maybe not in your parish.

Sadly the “TLM” is no silver bullet – it has its own share of abuses.
 
John666 said:
“War” indeed!

#1 takes place at my parish also. And of course goes against the GIRM. I have begun this “war” by meeting with my pastor. We’ve had one meeting so far about 2 abuses, one of which is changed.

One step at a time and continued prayer. We have many other smaller abuses going on.

May we charitably defend what we’ve been handed down in perseverence and prayer.
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Good luck, John. Keep us posted…
 
Do you want just ones listed in my parish? My parish isn’t too bad. It’s comprised of people who’s average age is 79 except for us. Of course, we travel 20+ miles to get to an abuse free mass. I could tell you hoards of horror stories from my diocese. Our new bishop is getting things on track but after 25 years of having a bishop who didn’t, it’s pretty bad.

We have a few havens in our diocese but over the years we’ve had “Eucharistic Ministers” definitely do the priests job. I’ll agree with katolik on this but I do think the Trads have their own share of problems too.
 
Yikes!.! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif another scary thread.

Has any one here read *Redemptionis Sacramentum *(RS)?
usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.shtml

EMHC is the only term to be used for these lay ministers.

All the abuses you mention have been addresses in this document, which was released in April with instructions to be implimented immediately.

The USCCB had written the Vatican regarding the use of flagons and pouring the precious blood at the Agnus Dei, as was their approved norm.

Vatican said, NO to that about June, so I believe the USCCB has instructed all the diocese to get moving on whatever instructions or vessels are needed to set the new procedures in place. From what I have heard Advent is the time many have set as the time of change.

SuZ
 
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Mysty101:
Yikes!.! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif another scary thread.

Has any one here read *Redemptionis Sacramentum *(RS)?
usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.shtml

EMHC is the only term to be used for these lay ministers.

All the abuses you mention have been addresses in this document, which was released in April with instructions to be implimented immediately.

The USCCB had written the Vatican regarding the use of flagons and pouring the precious blood at the Agnus Dei, as was their approved norm.

Vatican said, NO to that about June, so I believe the USCCB has instructed all the diocese to get moving on whatever instructions or vessels are needed to set the new procedures in place. From what I have heard Advent is the time many have set as the time of change.

SuZ
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Yes we have read both the GIRM and RS. Unfortunately our bishop condones the abuse by saying both the GIRM and RS are merely guidelines (not so!) that he is the final arbiter of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

Thanks be to God that he is retiring within a year…
 
In our parish the EMHCs used to approach the rear of the alter as the ‘Lamb of God…’ was being said. Since RS came out though I’ve noticed that more & more of them are not approaching until after the priest receives. It looks like the priest is ‘nabbing’ them individually after Mass. 😃
 
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katolik:
Thank God I have not seen one!!! extraordinary minister of the Eucharist for about 6 months!! Do you know how they bring disrespect for the priest? The priest is the the priest, not mary jo[no offense to you mary jo] who takes over the role of the priest, for the Eucharist . Join the club… go to the TLM exclusively
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No, I see no disrespect for the priest. Our priest is in his 70s, with a large and growing congregation and 4 Masses. No one is taking over the role of the priest in our parish.

The most significant role of the priest is his sacramental duties. Distributing Communion is hardly a taking over.

Oh, and by the way, we have 24 hour adoration in our parish, and we just completed building and opening a grade school.

and thank you, but I grew up with the Tridentine Mass, and would not go back to it given the option.
 
In our parish the small army of EMHC’s (6 to 8) go up before the fractioning and stand behind the priest facing the people. It’s quite a bit of commotion for them all to get up there not to mention their smiles back and forth and their scanning the congregation. The priest pours the Blood (crystal carafe to crystal goblets), then gives them out to the EMHC’s, then gives Communion to each EMHC and passes out the ciboria. All this takes as much time as it would take the priest to give Communion to about a third of the congregation all by himself. I don’t buy the argument that EMHC’s are necessary because of large congragations, time restraints, etc. To me the whole thing is a show and an exercise in self-aggrandizement for the EMHC’s.
 
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oldfogey:
In our parish the small army of EMHC’s (6 to 8) go up before the fractioning and stand behind the priest facing the people. It’s quite a bit of commotion for them all to get up there not to mention their smiles back and forth and their scanning the congregation. The priest pours the Blood (crystal carafe to crystal goblets), then gives them out to the EMHC’s, then gives Communion to each EMHC and passes out the ciboria. All this takes as much time as it would take the priest to give Communion to about a third of the congregation all by himself. I don’t buy the argument that EMHC’s are necessary because of large congragations, time restraints, etc. To me the whole thing is a show and an exercise in self-aggrandizement for the EMHC’s.
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Agreed.

I would also guess that the great majority of people who are EMsHC are ill suited for the ministry due to their NEED TO BE SEEN…
 
I am an EMHC in my parish. After we have offered the *pax Christi *to those around us, we (usually 6 of us) line up in the center aisle of the nave and sing the *Agnus Dei *facing the altar. Only after the priest and deacon have received Holy Communion do we approach the priest for the Body and then the deacon for the Blood. The priest then hands to us the ciborium or chalice for distributing. (We do not pick it up from the altar.) Unfortunately, the act of pouring the Blood into the chalices from a flagon during the Agnus Dei does occur in my parish. I hope this will be remedied soon.
 
**
To me the whole thing is a show and an exercise in self-aggrandizement for the EMHC’s
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. **That’s pretty nasty.

To me, it is people helping out in their Parish (which has 2 proiest and 7 Masses each week-end), and bringing Communion to the sick or homebound. I’m sure the sick and homebound also have a different opinion of EMHC than you. Bet our Priests also disagree with you.

SuZ
 
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Crusader:
Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion do not “take over” for the priest – at least in my parish, but maybe not in your parish.

Sadly the “TLM” is no silver bullet – it has its own share of abuses.
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Okay according to your analogy the TLM is a diamond bullet. Seriously the Mass can’t be compared to a bullet. The TLM is the UNBLOODY SACRIFICE OF THE CROSS,FOR THE REMISSION AND PROPRTRIATION OF SINS[SORRY FOR THE BAD SPELLING]
 
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katolik:
Okay according to your analogy the TLM is a diamond bullet. Seriously the Mass can’t be compared to a bullet. The TLM is the UNBLOODY SACRIFICE OF THE CROSS,FOR THE REMISSION AND PROPRTRIATION OF SINS[SORRY FOR THE BAD SPELLING]
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The tlm is no panacea – it has its share of problems as well.

Would you please do me a personal favor and never read or respond again to any new thread I post? I would deeply appreciate it.

Bringing up the tlm time after time as some sorta magic cure-all really tends to de-rail what could be great discussion. Again, I would really appreciate your help on this request. Thank you.

Dominus Vobiscum.
 
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