Encouragement for anyone depressed or going through a dark night

[Robert_Sock]

Which is exactly what John of the Cross is saying: learn to be at home in the darkness, do not run away from it, do not fight it or even try to understand it, embrace it -‘the night has eyes’. A new and different world is being born, what seem to be death pangs are in fact birth pangs, the soul in darkness is being renewed and transfigured; a new and [wonderful] beauty is born. Painful though it may be, there is in fact no other way except the way of trust and surrender, and ultimately of belief in the creative and transforming power of love. John’s invitation to accept ‘the dark ray of contemplation’ may not be easy, but there is no other way.
-Eugene McCaffrey, OCD

 

[phil_at_dayboro]

Is my interpretation of this thread that we should embrace our fate of depression or am I incorrect ?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Is my interpretation of this thread that we should embrace our fate of depression or am I incorrect ?

I would not use the word “fate,” but yes, it seems to me to be the best alternative. Depression need not be lifelong, and enduring it (like Christ embraced His cross), can result in Divine Union.

 

[Dorothy]

I don’t think St. John of the Cross would call the dark night of the soul “depression” as we understand that.

Depression is when a person has gone through some tough times and feels very unhappy and may need some help to get over it.

The dark night of the soul, according to St. John of the Cross, is when a prayerful person suddenly finds himself without consolations and finds it hard to pray and be excited about his devotions. He lacks feelings, and needs to continue being attentive to the Lord in spite of that.

By so doing, his faith is strengthened and he begins to enter into a deeper prayer life. It is not that he will always be without consolations, but that for a time he is brought to another level.

.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I don’t think St. John of the Cross would call the dark night of the soul “depression” as we understand that.

Depression is when a person has gone through some tough times and feels very unhappy and may need some help to get over it.

The dark night of the soul, according to St. John of the Cross, is when a prayerful person suddenly finds himself without consolations and finds it hard to pray and be excited about his devotions. He lacks feelings, and needs to continue being attentive to the Lord in spite of that.

By so doing, his faith is strengthened and he begins to enter into a deeper prayer life. It is not that he will always be without consolations, but that for a time he is brought to another level.

.

I’m under the impression that the dark night always involves depression, but not all depression results in the dark night. I think of spiritual depression as being the same as the dark night. I also believe that every depression, if embraced and worked through, can result in a dark night, God willing.

 

[DBT]

I’m under the impression that the dark night always involves depression.

Hello Robert

Actually that isn’t true.

God does not cause people to get depression or mental illness but He does allow it to happen. And certainly we can spiritually profit from it just as you say. And no doubt the experience of it can be harrowing and dark. But the Dark Night does not involve depression … actually the opposite is true.

You see with the Dark Night God does will it and He causes it to happen. Only He can lessen the severity of it and only He can bring it to an end. Medicine, treatment and counseling are to no avail. Why? Because the effects of the Night are never physical, mental or emotional … only spiritual. So the purpose of the Night has one and only one purpose … to rid us of our spiritual imperfections. Thus, those enduring the Night are not debilitated in any way as are those who suffer from depression. Those in the Night are highly functioning in all aspects of their life … save the spiritual side which is the cause of their torment.

No one would ever know someone is going through the Dark Night simply by observing exterior signs. Depression, on the other hand, can be easily observed by even the untrained eye. The reason: the phenomena of the Night is strictly interior. These individuals are not depressed and do not appear that way to their directors, family or friends. Rather, with proper guidance and explanation of what is going on in the depths of their soul, these individuals are more often than not serenely joyful.

St. John of the Cross was quite clear in his teaching that the Dark Night has nothing to do with “melancolia.” I think, though, the reason there is so much misconception among spiritually minded people on this matter is because of the type of language St. John uses to describe the experience of Night: to be wearied, tormented, defiled, darkened, abandoned and so on.

No doubt the person undergoing depression can very much relate to these type of expressions as they may match their experience to a tee. But the key point is this: God is not the cause of it; whereas with the Night He is.

Lastly, look to the expressions used in your quote in the OP: darkness that spiritually renews, transfigures and leads us to be reborn. Is that really what happens with the darkness of depression? Certainly it is with the Dark Night. So Father’s advice to abandon oneself to the darkness is entirely appropriate in the context of spiritual trial. I’m not so sure that’s the best course of action, though, with depression.

I hope this explanation helps a bit. If not, Father Dubay addresses this very subject in Fire Within. It would be well worth the read.

Many blessings to you!
Dave

 

[ccmcmg]

There are different types and levels of depression, and not all can be categorized as a dark night of the soul.

Those with psychiatric depression must seek help as needed, through talk or medical therapy. It’s not the same. I’ve been through both…dark night and mental depression. There is a big difference. It’s quite possible that mental illness/depression can kill you. A dark night should not.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Hello Robert

Actually that isn’t true.

God does not cause people to get depression or mental illness but He does allow it to happen. And certainly we can spiritually profit from it just as you say. And no doubt the experience of it can be harrowing and dark. But the Dark Night does not involve depression … actually the opposite is true.

You see with the Dark Night God does will it and He causes it to happen. Only He can lessen the severity of it and only He can bring it to an end. Medicine, treatment and counseling are to no avail. Why? Because the effects of the Night are never physical, mental or emotional … only spiritual. So the purpose of the Night has one and only one purpose … to rid us of our spiritual imperfections. Thus, those enduring the Night are not debilitated in any way as are those who suffer from depression. Those in the Night are highly functioning in all aspects of their life … save the spiritual side which is the cause of their torment.

No one would ever know someone is going through the Dark Night simply by observing exterior signs. Depression, on the other hand, can be easily observed by even the untrained eye. The reason: the phenomena of the Night is strictly interior. These individuals are not depressed and do not appear that way to their directors, family or friends. Rather, with proper guidance and explanation of what is going on in the depths of their soul, these individuals are more often than not serenely joyful.

St. John of the Cross was quite clear in his teaching that the Dark Night has nothing to do with “melancolia.” I think, though, the reason there is so much misconception among spiritually minded people on this matter is because of the type of language St. John uses to describe the experience of Night: to be wearied, tormented, defiled, darkened, abandoned and so on.

No doubt the person undergoing depression can very much relate to these type of expressions as they may match their experience to a tee. But the key point is this: God is not the cause of it; whereas with the Night He is.

Lastly, look to the expressions used in your quote in the OP: darkness that spiritually renews, transfigures and leads us to be reborn. Is that really what happens with the darkness of depression? Certainly it is with the Dark Night. So Father’s advice to abandon oneself to the darkness is entirely appropriate in the context of spiritual trial. I’m not so sure that’s the best course of action, though, with depression.

I hope this explanation helps a bit. If not, Father Dubay addresses this very subject in Fire Within. It would be well worth the read.

Many blessings to you!
Dave

I agree with most of what you say, but I have to believe that certain depressed people and those going through the dark night are somehow suffering from hypo-active stimulation to the pleasure centers of the brain. Just a hunch anyway. God can change chemical imbalances in the brain.

 

[ccmcmg]

I agree with most of what you say, but I have to believe that certain depressed people and those going through the dark night are somehow suffering from hypo-active stimulation to the pleasure centers of the brain. Just a hunch anyway. God can change chemical imbalances in the brain.

Of course He can, and has. However, He has also given us the science to help overcome it ourselves; He can also cure cancer, but in the meantime, we have to do what we can on our own, using the gifts He has given to others.

 

[DBT]

I agree with most of what you say, but I have to believe that certain depressed people and those going through the dark night are somehow suffering from hypo-active stimulation to the pleasure centers of the brain. Just a hunch anyway. God can change chemical imbalances in the brain.

That may well be true. But the first rule of spiritual direction is this: eliminate natural explanations before pursuing the supernatural. That’s the progression St. John makes in the 3 books of The Ascent followed by the 2 books of Dark Night.

Since the theme of this thread is “encouragement,” I hope I didn’t give the wrong impression in my post. If so, I’d like to correct it.

Certainly people with depression can and do go through Dark Night situations. In that you are absolutely correct. We simply need to understand, though, that depression and the dark night are separate and distinct phenomena. To often, imo, people conflate the two and make them one and the same.

God will use any circumstance He deems necessary to draw souls closer to Him. And the way He does this to the cloistered is very different from those living in the world. So sometimes applying the writings of St. John and Teresa to our lives can be a bit difficult because the scenarios of religious and secular life are different.

So let’s look to the example of Job - someone living in the world as you and I - as the classic Dark Night model. What were the “catalysts” God used to spiritually try Job? Severe natural trials: loss of wealth and livelihood, death of loved ones, interpersonal problems with so called friends, physical maladies unexpectedly given to him. In short, things those of us living in the world can easily relate to.

The key, though, is how Job viewed his situation and dealt with it. It seems to me he spent very little time dwelling on and mentally re-hashing the various catalysts that brought on his difficulties but immediately focused on the spiritual ramifications of his relationship with God. He was not me focused as are those suffering depression who never seem to get beyond their hyper introspection. So no woe is me attitude. Rather, he was entirely other focused.

And that’s one of the primary ways to discern when our trials are God given and infused - when the teachings of St. John and Teresa are most applicable. In short, the recipient rarely dwells on how the trial is impacting him personally. To such a soul, that’s not even the point. Rather, the whole focus is how to use the catalyst to more closely conform our lives to Christ. And then the suffering is no longer primarily physical, mental or emotional … but transformed to an entirely spiritual dimension. Such as soul ardently seeks Christ … but in the darkness of this night can no longer find Him. That is the nature of the suffering.

Dave

 

[Robert_Sock]

That may well be true. But the first rule of spiritual direction is this: eliminate natural explanations before pursuing the supernatural. That’s the progression St. John makes in the 3 books of The Ascent followed by the 2 books of Dark Night.

Since the theme of this thread is “encouragement,” I hope I didn’t give the wrong impression in my post. If so, I’d like to correct it.

Certainly people with depression can and do go through Dark Night situations. In that you are absolutely correct. We simply need to understand, though, that depression and the dark night are separate and distinct phenomena. To often, imo, people conflate the two and make them one and the same.

God will use any circumstance He deems necessary to draw souls closer to Him. And the way He does this to the cloistered is very different from those living in the world. So sometimes applying the writings of St. John and Teresa to our lives can be a bit difficult because the scenarios of religious and secular life are different.

So let’s look to the example of Job - someone living in the world as you and I - as the classic Dark Night model. What were the “catalysts” God used to spiritually try Job? Severe natural trials: loss of wealth and livelihood, death of loved ones, interpersonal problems with so called friends, physical maladies unexpectedly given to him. In short, things those of us living in the world can easily relate to.

The key, though, is how Job viewed his situation and dealt with it. It seems to me he spent very little time dwelling on and mentally re-hashing the various catalysts that brought on his difficulties but immediately focused on the spiritual ramifications of his relationship with God. He was not me focused as are those suffering depression who never seem to get beyond their hyper introspection. So no woe is me attitude. Rather, he was entirely other focused.

And that’s one of the primary ways to discern when our trials are God given and infused - when the teachings of St. John and Teresa are most applicable. In short, the recipient rarely dwells on how the trial is impacting him personally. To such a soul, that’s not even the point. Rather, the whole focus is how to use the catalyst to more closely conform our lives to Christ. And then the suffering is no longer primarily physical, mental or emotional … but transformed to an entirely spiritual dimension. Such as soul ardently seeks Christ … but in the darkness of this night can no longer find Him. That is the nature of the suffering.

Dave

Hi Dave,

You are probably more knowledgeable than I am in contemplation and the dark night. Thanks for the time you put into the post.

Back in the 90s I was having all kinds of great spiritual experiences. My mind would become like a firework display of profound spiritual insights. I’m now relatively dry, but I feel that that’s God’s plan for me, and I’m optimistic that I’m growing spiritually by going through this dark night.

I’m also feel rather depressed in that I feel like a 2 ton brick sitting in my computer desk. The thoughts of doing anything is anxiety provoking. But my mind keeps getting clearer and I’m feeling more spiritually mature in spite of the “depression.”

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Is my interpretation of this thread that we should embrace our fate of depression or am I incorrect ?

To me, it’s more like seeing depression as a “state” rather than a “fate.”

During my worst times, it was very very bad and I flirted with despair for several months at a time. But now looking back at it, I can see how it helped me in various ways, to have gone through that.

That’s why if you read the Stanzas of the Soul, they are not things souls may say while they are in the early stages, but how they reflect back after having found their lover.

And it’s a little like Paul talks of the pain we’re going through now is “nothing” compared to the joy we will have later. It’s kind of like that; I’m one of the lucky ones who made it convincingly out the “other end” and joy is pretty close now even though I do have a setback now and then like this past week.

And now, it really does seem like I could never be this happy, if it weren’t for having had all of those experiences. It seems like I had to know despair before I could really embrace hope, or whatever it is. And not only that, it helps me listen and empathize with others who are struggling so it’s easier to grasp what they are saying. I don’t know if suffering is “required” but in my case, it seems to have worked in my ultimate favor, even though there was collateral damage along the way.

 

[BobCatholic]

Basically speaking, resistance is futile, there is no way around the suffering, no matter how bad it is. Just accept it. Embrace it and be a masochist.

I don’t find any encouragement in that.

 

[houston1]

So let’s look to the example of Job - someone living in the world as you and I - as the classic Dark Night model. What were the “catalysts” God used to spiritually try Job? Severe natural trials: loss of wealth and livelihood, death of loved ones, interpersonal problems with so called friends, physical maladies unexpectedly given to him. In short, things those of us living in the world can easily relate to.

The key, though, is how Job viewed his situation and dealt with it. It seems to me he spent very little time dwelling on and mentally re-hashing the various catalysts that brought on his difficulties but immediately focused on the spiritual ramifications of his relationship with God. He was not me focused as are those suffering depression who never seem to get beyond their hyper introspection. So no woe is me attitude. Rather, he was entirely other focused.
And that’s one of the primary ways to discern when our trials are God given and infused - when the teachings of St. John and Teresa are most applicable. In short, the recipient rarely dwells on how the trial is impacting him personally. To such a soul, that’s not even the point. Rather, the whole focus is how to use the catalyst to more closely conform our lives to Christ. And then the suffering is no longer primarily physical, mental or emotional … but transformed to an entirely spiritual dimension. Such as soul ardently seeks Christ … but in the darkness of this night can no longer find Him. That is the nature of the suffering.
Dave

Robert and Dave,

I agree with what Dave has said in his posts on your question. He has helped me personally deal with my own Dark Night of spirit. My experience has similarities to the sentiments Job expresses in his ordeal and, yes, mine was a silent suffering because no one had a clue of the mental turmoil that I was experiencing. During my trial, I realized that I was stuck with no help from earth or heaven. I felt so alone. Yet, at the same time, I held onto faith that somehow and someway God had a plan. Here are my thoughts on the Dark Night of spirit. My experience may differ from what St. John of the Cross describes in his works. But, he also readily admits that each person’s experience is different.

For me, my Dark Night started close to three years ago when I started going to Mass on a daily basis. Because I attended Mass on a daily basis, I saw my now pastor on a daily basis. So, I somehow became drawn to him and could hardly stop thinking about him … I guess I am/was drawn to the persona Christi vibe that he gave. This fixation was greatly disturbing to me because he is a priest and I am a married woman. To rid myself of this fixation, I was faced with a decision of either stop attending daily Mass at my parish (which was impractical at the time due to my other commitments and my son’s attendance at the parish school) or continue attending Mass there and just accept this burden with the hope that my feelings would lessen over time. I chose the second and, for only a reason God knows, the feelings have not lessened.

I even came to the point to entertain the idea that going to Mass was a near occasion of sin for me and I was attending daily Mass for the wrong reasons, etc. I lost ten pounds within the first few months due to my distress (and, I was already underweight beforehand). When this first started, I had no one to talk to and had no spiritual director or prospects of having one. My unwanted feelings that I had for this priest multiplied by fears so that I avoided him as much as possible and would tremble when I was near him. But, I was always put in circumstances involving his presence so I rarely had any relief from my suffering. Although I frequently rehashed my choices, I had no reasonable way out of my circumstances and had no way of controlling my feelings. I just could not will away my feelings or pray them away. As much as possible, I tried to keep my thoughts elsewhere and in prayer … but with my having frequent encounters with my pastor, my thoughts were constantly on him.

Throughout this whole trial, I have learned to surrender to God in an almost perpetually dark season of my life and, in spite of my fears, God prompted me to take action to break through my fear by forcing interactions with my pastor. My fears are, for the most part, now gone. But, I still frequently think about this priest even to this day and still experience temptations related to thoughts about him whether to lust or to despair. Fortunately, because of the longevity of this as well as several incremental prayers answered by God, I have really learned to just live with this burden without having closure. It is open-ended and I have no idea where God is leading me. But, that’s okay.

Dave gave me good advice with telling me to “not think much but love much.” So, that is what I have done and continue doing. I really stop thinking about what this priest thinks of me by running scenarios of what if this or what if that, etc. and, rather, keep my focus on serving God and neighbor, and my neighbor does include this priest due to my circumstances. So, I try to serve him as I would any other priest in his position… and employ a “but for” test…i.e., but for my feelings, I would act this way.

So, in order to get over the Dark Night, the key is to drop all thoughts that are not essential to serving God and neighbor…a real forgetting of self. As I have been advised by spiritual director (who I found about a year into my Dark Night), I let God keep score and I don’t worry about how things are affecting me personally…just keep it simple…love. If you’ve read the Cloud of the Unknowing, the what if’s are dropped into the “cloud of forgetting.”

houston1

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Basically speaking, resistance is futile, there is no way around the suffering, no matter how bad it is. Just accept it. Embrace it and be a masochist.

I don’t find any encouragement in that.

When I encounter “problems,” I may incur some sort of pain. Physical pain, financial loss, time loss, whatever. I may lose something or something may get broken. Or I might be limited by some stupid situation.

But the way that I frame this in my own mind, can make a huge difference as to the impact of that suffering. Some people, for example, will want to complain and elicit sympathy or otherwise let others know, and that seems helpful.

But ideally, I add no “emotional pain” to the situation, by not only having the “problem” whatever it is, but now I have my little voices and thoughts inside my head getting very anxious because the world “isn’t how it should be.” So at any time the world isn’t perfect, I actually have potential to suffer in my own mind, because things aren’t as they should be. Some affect me directly, others I will never notice the effects.

But the suffering from being anxious over the state of the world, is the kind that the Dark Night helped me quit doing. Like if I spill a glass of milk, that doesn’t cause me physical pain, unless I’m crippled somehow and it hurts to clean it up. But I can get upset because it ruins something or because I felt klutzy or because my kid didn’t watch out when I said watch out or just because, gosh darn it, milk was supposed to be on the cup and it’s on the floor. No amount of emotional gyrations and suffering and anger or whatever I might go through, is going to do anything toward improving the situation with the milk. If I get all upset then clean it up, it’s cleaned up. Or I can just skip the part about getting upset, and just go get a rag.

So yeah, this is just one example, but generally the only way I can see that anger can be “constructive” is if I might think I have to act angry to convince somebody of something or other.

Experiencing different types of suffering, is useful in deconstructing into “what do I need to do” v. “what is wrong with this picture” at any given moment. It can be a powerful shift that almost seems stupidly too simple at first, then so obvious.

I’m probably off topic by now, so I’ll leave it there.