End times and the seven churches

[jphilapy]

Does anyone have any insight regarding the last four churches out of the seven in revelations? I mean Jesus indicates that those churches would be on earth till he returned. Some teach that the churches in revelations represent the church in two ways. 1) The letters were to actual churches in the time of John, 2) but since the book of revelations is a book of prophecy that means the seven churchs also have prophetic signifigance. And what is pointed out is that regarding the prophetic signifigance the first three churches have come to pass already, but there are four more churches that will remain till the end of time and this is indicated in the text for those chuches.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Fidelis]

Modern scholars both Protestant and Catholic agree that the seven churches mentioned in the first chapters of the Apocalypse were actual churches at the time of John and he was addressing them as such. They have no “end times” significance, if that is what you’re asking (in fact, it is arguable that the first 20 chapters of the Apocalypse are talking about events in the first century and thus have been fulfilled). Just because it is a book of prophecy, don’t fall into the Rapturist “Left Behind” claptrap that every word in the Book of Revelation has some future as yet unfulfilled significance to the “end times.”

For a good balanced view, check out this article from Catholic Answers:

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0209fea5.asp

I’d also recommend the Navarre Bible Commentary on the Book of Revelation and Scott Hahns comprehensive tape series “The End” which also has a study guide available from St. Joseph’s Communications.

 

[BayCityRickL]

Fidelis:

Modern scholars both Protestant and Catholic agree that the seven churches mentioned in the first chapters of the Apocalypse were actual churches at the time of John and he was addressing them as such. . .

I am no scholar, period. But, I take Revelation in little chunks. And, in the seven churches, I look at the warnings that may just as well may apply to the modern context. At the moment, these are not fresh in my mind, but I recall that they regard problems that might occur at any time in Church history.

They are interesting in that the warnings go to corporate behavior of the churches, beyond the morality of individuals.

 

[Prometheum_x]

BayCityRickL:

I am no scholar, period. But, I take Revelation in little chunks. And, in the seven churches, I look at the warnings that may just as well may apply to the modern context. At the moment, these are not fresh in my mind, but I recall that they regard problems that might occur at any time in Church history.

They are interesting in that the warnings go to corporate behavior of the churches, beyond the morality of individuals.

As it says in 1 Cor 10: “These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!” (11-12 NIV)

 

[Bobby_Jim]

BayCityRickL:

They are interesting in that the warnings go to corporate behavior of the churches, beyond the morality of individuals.

Good point - it’s not just about me & Jesus.

 

[Malachi4U]

Prometheum_x:

As it says in 1 Cor 10: “These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!” (11-12 NIV)

Why should protestants worry? They’re allready saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Why should those who saved themselves by faith alone worry about this?

I have ‘hope’ that I’ll endure to the end, fight the good fight and keep Christs ‘origional’ Faith without reforming it… Others have salvation and no longer need hope from what they say to me here on this forum and elsewhere.

 

[jphilapy]

Malachi4U:

Why should protestants worry? They’re allready saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Why should those who saved themselves by faith alone worry about this?

I have ‘hope’ that I’ll endure to the end, fight the good fight and keep Christs ‘origional’ Faith without reforming it… Others have salvation and no longer need hope from what they say to me here on this forum and elsewhere.

You lost me, what does this discussion have to do with protestantism and saved by faith once for all?

Jeff