M
MountainCruiser
Guest
Can someone explain or point me in the direction of a site that can of the events that are to happen in the end times according to the Catholic Church.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Last edited:
- Status
V
Vico
Guest
Catechism of the Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c2a7.htm
Last edited:
C
christismylord
Guest
All of Matthew 24, and 1 Timothy 4:1-5 do a great job of explaining!
bible.usccb.org
1 Timothy, CHAPTER 4
Daily Bible Readings, Podcast Audio and Videos and Prayers brought to you by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Last edited:
Crusader13
New member
There are numerous sources to help explain Catholic Eschatology, although I’m not familiar with any one good website that is devoted strictly to this, there are some very good books you can read.
The Lambs Supper by Scott Hahn
Coming Soon by Michael Barber
Walking With God by Jeff Cavins
The Lambs Supper by Scott Hahn
Coming Soon by Michael Barber
Walking With God by Jeff Cavins
Crusader13
New member
The best way to view the end times is not by trying to predict which passages in the Bible are talking about Russia, or China or nuclear missiles falling from the sky.
The entire Bible is about God’s covenant relationship with humanity. In the OT you will see how many times the people of God, Israel (His bride), fall into adultery by turning to other nations and believing in other gods. The language that God uses is very strong when he accuses them of prostituting themselves to other nations.
The OT prophecies are speaking of the coming judgment and the Messiah who will save people from their sins. In the NT Jesus is repeatedly trying to tell the Jews that the kingdom is finally at hand and they need to repent from their harlotry.
At this point the Jewish leaders have abandoned God and allied themselves with Rome. Their coming destruction is finally sealed when they crucify their own Lord and Savior. Matthew 24 speaks about the coming destruction of the Temple and the end of the old covenant age.
Revelation is also primarily about the destruction of the Temple and how Jerusalem/Israel is no longer the bride of Christ, but the new bride is the Church! Jesus Christ is reigning in Heaven now while the Church continues her mission of spreading the gospel to all the world.
Scripture doesn’t give detailed information about how the second coming will unfold, because our focus is about the end of the old covenant and our mission as members of the New Covenant and what we should be doing until Jesus finally returns.
The entire Bible is about God’s covenant relationship with humanity. In the OT you will see how many times the people of God, Israel (His bride), fall into adultery by turning to other nations and believing in other gods. The language that God uses is very strong when he accuses them of prostituting themselves to other nations.
The OT prophecies are speaking of the coming judgment and the Messiah who will save people from their sins. In the NT Jesus is repeatedly trying to tell the Jews that the kingdom is finally at hand and they need to repent from their harlotry.
At this point the Jewish leaders have abandoned God and allied themselves with Rome. Their coming destruction is finally sealed when they crucify their own Lord and Savior. Matthew 24 speaks about the coming destruction of the Temple and the end of the old covenant age.
Revelation is also primarily about the destruction of the Temple and how Jerusalem/Israel is no longer the bride of Christ, but the new bride is the Church! Jesus Christ is reigning in Heaven now while the Church continues her mission of spreading the gospel to all the world.
Scripture doesn’t give detailed information about how the second coming will unfold, because our focus is about the end of the old covenant and our mission as members of the New Covenant and what we should be doing until Jesus finally returns.
Last edited:
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His Kindom will have no end.
V
Vico
Guest
Of course everyone that attains heaven, which includes Jews, is part of the Body of Christ which is the Church!
Catechism
Last edited:
Crusader13
New member
That is why we pray for the conversion of the Jews.
As Paul says we are united in one body, which is now the Church. There is no longer any distinction between Jews and Gentiles. Meaning that Judaism is not salvific. So it would be wrong to say that in Heaven there will be different religions and beliefs. We are all one under Christ Jesus and under no other name are we saved.
Last edited:
V
Vico
Guest
I am saying that there are saints in heaven that were not known as Christians, including Jews.Vico:
That is why we pray for the conversion of the Jews.
As Paul says we are united in one body, which is now the Church. There is no longer any distinction between Jews and Gentiles. Meaning that Judaism is not salvific. So it would be wrong to say that in Heaven there will be different religions and beliefs. We are all one under Christ Jesus and under no other name are we saved.
Crusader13
New member
You’re referring to the OT saints? That is true, but it doesn’t negate or contradict the necessity of a belief in Jesus Christ.
The Jews in Jesus time, not all, but with regards to the Jewish hierarchy, they no longer believed in God. They choose Caesar over Jesus and Jesus said as much:
The leaders of the Jews in Jesus’s day, may have been Jews ethnically, but they were not true sons of Abraham, because they no longer sought the prophecies concerning Jesus’s own coming.
They crucified Him and the prophets. They were the synagogue of Satan. Hence their destruction.
Last edited:
V
Vico
Guest
Yes, and Jesus warned those that loved him of the destruction to come in Luke 23:
Also, the Old Covenant still exists.
Catechism
Crusader13
New member
This is reference to the Old Testament still being valid in terms of liturgy and scripture.
The Holy Spirit prepares for the reception of Christ
1093 In the sacramental economy the Holy Spirit fulfills what was prefigured in the Old Covenant . Since Christ’s Church was “prepared in marvellous fashion in the history of the people of Israel and in the Old Covenant,” [LG 2] the Church’s liturgy has retained certain elements of the worship of the Old Covenant as integral and irreplaceable, adopting them as her own: [762]
notably, reading the Old Testament; [121]
The Old covenant, in terms of the law being able to save someone from their sins, has been completely and totally abrogated.
The law cannot save someone from their sins. The teaching of the Church has always been to pray for the conversion of the Jews. Why would we pray for their conversion if the Old covenant was still valid for them??? That’s like saying they can openly reject Jesus and still get to Heaven. That’s the exact reason Jerusalem was destroyed along with the Temple.
Last edited:
V
Vico
Guest
My post was not about the law, it was about the covenant that “has never been revoked”. That covenant is protection to the Chosen People in return for exclusive loyalty. (Exodus 19:5)
The Old Covenant does prefigure the New Covenant and we do pray for conversions, yet is it also possible for non-Christians to be saved as described in Lumen Gentium 16:
Last edited:
Crusader13
New member
Sounds like you’re splitting hairs.
Israel as a nation was rejected by God because of their apostasy. Their identity was tied directly to the Temple, the dwelling place of God. God took that away from them when Jesus told them the parable of the wicked vine growers. He then explained what would happen when the owner of the vineyard arrived:
Who is that nation??? We are, the Church is the new nation. Saint Peter makes this clear.
Ethnic Jews/Israel are not prohibited from the kingdom for all time, Paul tells us that a remnant will return once they accept Jesus.
Last edited:
C
CelticWarlord
Guest
It’s tough convincing certain people of that one but I fervently agree. I also like to keep it simple, such as what Father Mitch Pacwa says, “The Catholic Church teaches that there will be an end times. It nowhere tells us when”.
Father Scott Lewis, S.J., says in his “Getting to Know the Book of Revelation”, a short but precise overview, “The symbols should not be taken literally but read for their theological meaning. They are not some secret code waiting to be deciphered, nor are they intended to identify individuals or nations in our own time…It does not predict historical events until the end of time.” Lewis includes in this the Book of Daniel and other OT passages favored by hysterical, end-times preachers.
V
Vico
Guest
Then you think the Catechism splits hairs!
Note also from Evangelii gaudium (2013) of H.H. Pope Francis, No. 247:
https://w2.vatican.va/content/franc...sortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html
Last edited:
T
TMC
Guest
This is certainly not what Paul meant by that statement. At the time, Paul would have consider himself a Jew. Paul’s point was that non-Jews (like the Galatians to whom he was writing) can be saved by the Jewish Messiah, not that Jews could not or would not.
M
meltzerboy2
Guest
As far as I can see, the destruction of the Jewish people, including their leaders, has NOT been sealed, and neither has the Old Covenant been destroyed. Though numerous nations have attempted, and still attempt, to destroy (and convert) the Jews, they, by the grace of Gd, persevere. And this perseverance and thriving is apart from the Temple, for in Judaism, the practices within the home in keeping with the Law constitute the real and internal Temple of Gd.
In Judaism, the Messiah’s specific role is NOT to save people from their sins. Only the individual can do that by his own repentance. The Messiah is, however, meant to intensify the study of the Law in Israel and elsewhere as well as bring peace and harmony among the nations of the world, all of whom will at last recognize the supremacy of Gd. They need not convert to Judaism but they will convert to peaceful relationships with their neighbors.
In Judaism, the Messiah’s specific role is NOT to save people from their sins. Only the individual can do that by his own repentance. The Messiah is, however, meant to intensify the study of the Law in Israel and elsewhere as well as bring peace and harmony among the nations of the world, all of whom will at last recognize the supremacy of Gd. They need not convert to Judaism but they will convert to peaceful relationships with their neighbors.
Last edited:
Crusader13
New member
That’s not what I was arguing against. Of course he was a Jew, however he was one of the Jews that believed that Jesus was exactly who He said He was. Therefore, he believed in Jesus’ words and sought to bring others into that same belief. Both Jews and Gentiles.
I was speaking about the Judaism of today not being salvific. Ethnic Jews are not simply saved because of their ethnicity. Paul spoke against that very belief, as I already mentioned above.
Last edited:
T
TMC
Guest
The point you are making is not found in the Scripture you are citing. The “neither Jew nor Greek” (or Gentile, if you prefer) passage is not meant to suggest that Jews are lowered to the status of non-Jews. It is mean to say that the status of non-Jews is raised to the status of the Jews, through Christ.
If what you mean to say is that Paul taught that all who are saved are saved through Christ, we can agree on that. But Paul did NOT teach that the coming of Jesus, or the Crucifixion, or anything else demeaned Jews to some lower status than they previously held.
- Status