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- Status
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arthra
Guest
Above Openmind wrote:
*It is perfectly OK if you want to be blind to everything that contradicts your beliefs, but to accuse other people of having ‘failed to inhale’ just indicates that you Bahai are smoking something that is making you delusional. You can’t just take two people of your choice, however holy they may be, and make them into the Mahdi and Jesus - a majority or at least a significant portion of humanity has to agree with you.
*
I really feel openmind that it’s improper here to suggest that Baha’is are “smoking something that is making you delusional”… It’s fine if you disagree and believe the “true” Mahdi with Jesus has yet to appear.
Our history goes back as you know to a restless period in early nineteenth century Persia before the declaration of Baha’u’llahwas in a Garden along the Tigris in Baghdad. To understand the expectation of the Mahdi you need to take into account the Shaykhi movement which preceded the declaration of Siyyid Ali Muhammad the Bab in 1260 Ah=1844 CE. You need a knowledge of he Hadiths and traditions which were being studied… such as
*“The Mahdi will extract the Torah and the other Divine Books from their caverns and will judge amongst the faithful of the Evangiles according to the Evangiles, amongst the faithful of al-Zabur (The Book of David) according to the al-Zabur and amongst the faithful of the Koran according to the Koran.” *
Ibn Babunye, bab 129, 1/161; Ibn-Ayyash, Mugrad-Ab, 18159
both Traditions are in al-
Nu`mᮭ, al-Ghayba quoted in Majlis
In Persia…today Iran thousands gave up their lives believing the Bab fulfilled the prophecies of the Return of the Twelfth Imam…Edward Granville Browne and other western reporters documented some of these events for scholars in the west to study…
For references see:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1bism
So don’t just say my friend " You can’t just take two people of your choice".*
*It is perfectly OK if you want to be blind to everything that contradicts your beliefs, but to accuse other people of having ‘failed to inhale’ just indicates that you Bahai are smoking something that is making you delusional. You can’t just take two people of your choice, however holy they may be, and make them into the Mahdi and Jesus - a majority or at least a significant portion of humanity has to agree with you.
*
I really feel openmind that it’s improper here to suggest that Baha’is are “smoking something that is making you delusional”… It’s fine if you disagree and believe the “true” Mahdi with Jesus has yet to appear.
Our history goes back as you know to a restless period in early nineteenth century Persia before the declaration of Baha’u’llahwas in a Garden along the Tigris in Baghdad. To understand the expectation of the Mahdi you need to take into account the Shaykhi movement which preceded the declaration of Siyyid Ali Muhammad the Bab in 1260 Ah=1844 CE. You need a knowledge of he Hadiths and traditions which were being studied… such as
*“The Mahdi will extract the Torah and the other Divine Books from their caverns and will judge amongst the faithful of the Evangiles according to the Evangiles, amongst the faithful of al-Zabur (The Book of David) according to the al-Zabur and amongst the faithful of the Koran according to the Koran.” *
Ibn Babunye, bab 129, 1/161; Ibn-Ayyash, Mugrad-Ab, 18159
He will come with a new Cause - just as Muhammad, at the beginning of Islam, summoned the people to a new Cause - and with a new book'; opposition of the ulamah o the Mahd�I The Qa’im [Mahd흊will come to a people who will interpret the Book of God against him and will bring proofs from it against him’;both Traditions are in al-
Nu`mᮭ, al-Ghayba quoted in Majlis
In Persia…today Iran thousands gave up their lives believing the Bab fulfilled the prophecies of the Return of the Twelfth Imam…Edward Granville Browne and other western reporters documented some of these events for scholars in the west to study…
For references see:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1bism
So don’t just say my friend " You can’t just take two people of your choice".*
O
openmind77
Guest
This remark was in response to the Bahai statement “they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of the meaning of these traditions”. I think the Bahai should stop making such vague, flowery statements about other people, implying somehow that other people are not spiritual enough to understand the Bahai flowery interpretation (which actually seems to obscure the truth most of the time).
When I ask someone of Bahai faith, how the Bab and Bahaullah have fulfilled the prophecy in these hadiths: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Jesus_Praying_Behind_Mahdi, the answer should not be about ‘someone not inhaling fragrances’… If there is such an answer, then you should not complain about the response.
I am sure there are good historical reasons that the Bahai have concluded that the Bab and Bahaullah represent the Return of the Mahdi and the Return of Jesus, but we don’t live in the nineteenth century any more, it is high time that the Bahai realized that the rest of world is not accepting their story. To the rest of world, the Bab and Bahaullah are just two holy men similar to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Meher Baba, not at all the same level as Jesus.
T
TonyBS
Guest
Are you saying the rest of the world were/are doing such a wonderful Job in the time since the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, that they need not consider a message of Love, Unity and the Oneness of God?
It seems that the past is again repeated when when the Lowest of All men are always the Highest. I see the Only Faith that is truly embracing the Oneness of Humanity, in its Diversity and calling it to a Unity of belief in our One and Only God, is the Followers of these so called Lowly Men.
That would be my observation of the statement you have posted.
Regards Tony
O
openmind77
Guest
Of course the world should consider Bahaullah’s message - love, unity and oneness are indeed wonderful sentiments. I never said or even implied that the Bab and Bahaullah are ‘Lowly Men’ in any way.Are you saying the rest of the world were/are doing such a wonderful Job in the time since the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, that they need not consider a message of Love, Unity and the Oneness of God?
It seems that the past is again repeated when when the Lowest of All men are always the Highest. I see the Only Faith that is truly embracing the Oneness of Humanity, in its Diversity and calling it to a Unity of belief in our One and Only God, is the Followers of these so called Lowly Men.
That would be my observation of the statement you have posted.
Regards Tony
However, to say that they were the Return of the Mahdi as well as the Return of Jesus is elevating them without real evidence, but only by interpreting some words in prophecies your own way or playing with numbers, is a major error.
Others have also made such mistakes (the example would be Ghulam Ahmad and Meher Baba) but their followers are more circumspect about promoting their unsubstantiated beliefs. Bahai on the other hand seem to add on to original claims - now Bahaullah is not only the Return of Jesus, but he is also the ‘Father’.
Anyway, the time of the actual Return of the Mahdi and then Return of Jesus is close, the Bahai (as well as the rest of us) will soon be able to correct any mistakes in their beliefs by learning new truths from these two incarnations. Judgment Day which I think has already started (last year, not one hundred years ago) will separate men into goats and sheep - not according to their beliefs but according to Matthew 25:35-40.
J
jeffrey_erwin
Guest
THE DRAGON’S TAIL.
“Tickling the dragon’s tail” was a term used by the Los Alamos nuclear engineers for the initiation of a controlled nuclear fission. I’ve always thought that there was something to Mother Shipton’s end times poems, but they don’t seem to get much attention on Catholic Answers forums.
On a different note, I’d like to mention the visions of Pope St. Pius X. These foretold an event at Vatican City which would involve a “pope of the same name,” and which would mark the “beginning of the end times.” The pope of the same name is Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI. We know this because there are only three possible candidates, and Benedict XVI is the only one with a same name as Pius X (i.e. Joseph/Giuseppe.)
The date for an “event” that is floating around on End Times Speculation XXI is October, 2017.
O
openmind77
Guest
Actually I don’t see this October 2017 date mentioned anywhere except as the 100th anniversary of the events at Fatima. Why is the 100th anniversary of Fatima any more significant than the 99th or the 101st anniversary?
I think the end times have already started - the events all of us should look forward to are the two Returns - the Return of the Mahdi and then the Return of Jesus, not with dread (as it seems to be the preference) but with happy anticipation.
This talk and fear of nuclear or any other type of devastation and calamity is quite unnecessary. Mother Shipton’s predictions were supposed to take place in the last century and Jeremiah was talking about Jerusalem’s destruction much earlier (600 BC) - neither is applicable today. Today’s chastisement, if any, will be the collapse of the economic structure of the world and that is already ongoing.
However, when the Mahdi Returns (he is expected before Jesus), it will be critical how non-Muslims react to the event - it will be very difficult for them to accept a Muslim as a ‘messenger from God’ and this may cause a lot of dissension and discord and maybe even some bloodshed.
J
jeffrey_erwin
Guest
The themes of “The Nations” and “Fire” are repeatedly mentioned in a way that seems to imply a world-wide context rather than just Jerusalem.
“The nations have sunk into a pit of their own making. . .”.----Psalm 9:15
“Go into the hollows of the rocks,
into the caverns of the earth. . . .” ------------------------.Isaiah 2:19
“For by fire will YHWH execute judgment…
The victims of YHWH will be many.” ----------------------- Isaiah 66:16
“For YHWH is indicting the nations,…
See! The disaster spreads
from nation to nation. . . .” ----------------------------- Jeremiah 25:31-32
“Those slaughtered by YHWH that day will be scattered across the world from end to end. . . .They will stay lying on the surface like dung.” – Jeremiah 25:33
“I have come to bring a fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already!”-- Luke 12:48
I think that it is clear that all of these prophecies cannot be dismissed as ideas that are confined to ancient Jerusalem. You must admit that, now in the 21st century, nations do have the destructive power necessary to cause the above predicted disaster. All it will take is a little push by our Creator at the right time. Have you read about the little mix-up in itinerary that led to the murder of the Arch-Duke which, in turn, set off WW I?
I mentioned the visions of Pope St. Pius X. These cannot be repeated here, but I think that you should take a look. They are easy to find. Their fulfillment can only happen in the remaining lifetime of Pope Emeritus Bendict XVI.
S
Servant19
Guest
Aside from this, what else are you expecting when the Mahdi Returns openmind?
The hadith of Jesus praying behind the Mahdi seems to be a personal favourite of yours, what do you think it looks like? What will you see that will convince you that it is the Mahdi?
.
O
openmind77
Guest
Actually that hadith is not my favorite, it is just something I keep repeating to get you Bahais thinking a bit. But that hadith does point out something very important - that the Mahdi and Jesus will be working as a team and not at all at odds with each other.
What I expect from the Mahdi as well as Jesus is to help us solve problems of the world - hunger, poverty, war, refugees and promote peace world-wide.
The separation of people on the basis of Matthew 25:35-40 is already taking place (I don’t know that much about Australia, but there are clearly two groups in the US based on that criteria - their attitude to strangers/immigrants, to solving hunger, to solving sickness/healthcare and to incarceration of people).
The last thing I expect both of them to do is correct any errors or misunderstandings that may have crept into our beliefs (for all religions).
The Mahdi and Jesus will have their own way of convincing us of their authenticity (they are after all messengers of God).
W
worldcitizen
Guest
The reality is none of these prophecies about any of the Holy Books or the Mahdi can be proven except to oneself.
God gave all mean and women freedom of belief and conscience and so God has not endowed any of these prophecies with absolute proof. That is, one person cannot absolutely prove to another that they are true.
That is what Baha’u’llah was referring to when He said if Christ came down out of the sky who would reject or accept? Free will and freedom of choice would be taken away and God wants us to choose to be His lovers and believe in Him from love not proofs.
So I can only read the prophecies for myself with a pure heart and maybe I see the truth and accept them while a person may read them to oppose them and never accept them.
I can’t take out of my soul and transfer it to another’s heart. Only I’m glad I believe now when most oppose than at a time when countries become Baha’is and so people join the masses. I would rather be a Baha’i now than at a time that it becomes obvious that this comes from God. There is not much reward for following what everyone else follows but there is a lot of merit in accepting the truth when everyone is opposed to it.
Would one rather be a disciple living in the time of Christ or a believer now when kings and queens and over 2 billion follow Him??
But I cannot prove anything to anyone except myself. All I can do is share that God sent His love to us through Baha’u’llah and the true lovers of God will go where true love is and those who only want proofs and arguments will turn away. Because proofs and arguments can always be rebuffed. But the heart seeking his Beloved will find his Loved One.
That is the inbuilt God given right of not making the prophecies so obvious that freedom of choice is taken away. And also to distinguish the sheep from the goats.
As it is said knowledge is a veil between man and God. But the true lover needs no arguments or discourse as love guides him to his Beloved.
God gave all mean and women freedom of belief and conscience and so God has not endowed any of these prophecies with absolute proof. That is, one person cannot absolutely prove to another that they are true.
That is what Baha’u’llah was referring to when He said if Christ came down out of the sky who would reject or accept? Free will and freedom of choice would be taken away and God wants us to choose to be His lovers and believe in Him from love not proofs.
So I can only read the prophecies for myself with a pure heart and maybe I see the truth and accept them while a person may read them to oppose them and never accept them.
I can’t take out of my soul and transfer it to another’s heart. Only I’m glad I believe now when most oppose than at a time when countries become Baha’is and so people join the masses. I would rather be a Baha’i now than at a time that it becomes obvious that this comes from God. There is not much reward for following what everyone else follows but there is a lot of merit in accepting the truth when everyone is opposed to it.
Would one rather be a disciple living in the time of Christ or a believer now when kings and queens and over 2 billion follow Him??
But I cannot prove anything to anyone except myself. All I can do is share that God sent His love to us through Baha’u’llah and the true lovers of God will go where true love is and those who only want proofs and arguments will turn away. Because proofs and arguments can always be rebuffed. But the heart seeking his Beloved will find his Loved One.
That is the inbuilt God given right of not making the prophecies so obvious that freedom of choice is taken away. And also to distinguish the sheep from the goats.
As it is said knowledge is a veil between man and God. But the true lover needs no arguments or discourse as love guides him to his Beloved.
J
jeffrey_erwin
Guest
I was hoping to provoke a reaction with the above idea that there could be “only three possible candidates” for the “Pope of the same name” in the above mentioned vision. But posters here were either too smart or too cautious to bite on that. Therefore, I am left in the embarrassing position of having to question my own posting.
I have, so far, spared this thread from my diatribe about the infamous Prophecy of the Popes that was spuriously attributed to St.Malachy by its author, Fr. Arnold Wion. But that reprieve has now come to an end. What I meant by “only three possible candidates” is that, according to Fr. Wion’s Prophecy of the Popes there will be only one more Pope after Francis, and that pope will be “Peter of Rome.” Not many understand this idea; you will not find it in any book, old or new. However, you should believe me because when you take a good look at what Fr. Wion actually published, it becomes obvious.
Fr. Wion’s list of papal mottos contains 113 paragraphs, each one a separate motto for a single pope. The first 111 of these consist of just one line. Number 112 has two lines, and number 113 has eight lines. From LIGNUM VITAE, Wion, 1595, the last seven mottos as published (with a line_ inserted to enable paragraph indentations) beginning with number 107 for Pope John XXIII:
Pastor & nauta.
Flos florum.
De medietate lunae.
De labore solis.
Gloria olivae.
In psecutione. extre-
_ma S.R.E. sedebit.
Petrus Romanus, qui
_pascet oves in mul-
_tis tribulationibus:
_quibus transactis ci-
_vitas septicollis di-
_ruetur, & Judex tre
_medus judicabit po
_pulum suum. Finis.
That should seem simple enough. If you add the five one line mottos to the single two line motto and the eight line motto, you get a total of seven. Unfortunately for the understanding of this prophecy, it wasn’t that simple for the very first commentator, Fr. Thomas Messingham, who took it upon himself to alter Fr. Wion’s paragraph structure.
From FLORILEGIUM INSULAE SANCTORUM. Messingham, 1624:
Pastor & Nauta.
Flos florum.
De medietate lunae.
De labore solis.
Gloria Olivae.
__In persecutione extre-
ma S.R.E. sedebit Petrus
Romanus qui pascet oves
in multis tribulationibus:
quibus transactis civitas
septicollis diruetur,& ju-
dex tremed* judicabit po-
pulum suum. FINIS.
Notice how Fr. Messingham has combined the last two paragraphs into a single eight line paragraph thereby shortening Fr. Wion’s list by one to just 112 mottos. This alteration may not have been of much import back in 1624, but now that we are at motto number 112 on the list, it makes all the difference.
Is, according to the prophecy, Pope Francis the final Pope or not? By Messingham’s altered structure, Pope Francis would have to be the last Pope, Peter of Rome. But by Fr. Wion’s original publication, Pope Francis is not Petrus Romanus who is still to come.
Fr. Wion’s prophecy has been much derided and dismissed of late since it is obvious that our beloved Francis is not “Peter of Rome.” Tim Staples of Catholic Answers goes so far as to label it “tomfoolery.” I think that it is worth another look. Does anyone want to talk about it?
T
Techno2000
Guest
****Marie de la Faudais ( 19th century). 'There will come
three days of compelte darkness. Only blessed candles made
of wax will give some light during this horrible darkness. One
candle will last for three days, but they will not give light in
the houses of the Godless. Lightning will penetrate your
houses, but it will not put out the blessed candles. Neither
wind, nor storm, nor earthquake will put out the blessed
candles. Red clouds, like blood, will cross the sky, and the
crash of thunder will shake the earth to its very core. The
ocean will cast its foaming waves over the land, and the earth
will be turned into a huge graveyard. The bodies of the
wicked and of the righteous will cover the face of the earth.
The famine that follows will be severe. All plant-life will be
destroyed as well as three-fourths of the human race. This
crisis will be sudden and the punishment will be world-wide."
The 3 Days of Darkness
Blessed Anna-Maria Taigi (19th century, Italy)
Blessed Anna Maria Taigi predicted a major and as of yet still fothcoming Chastisement for the world on account of its grave sins.”God will send two punishments: one will be in the form of wars, revolutions and other evils; it shall originate on earth. The other will be sent from Heaven. There shall come over the whole earth an intense darkness lasting three days and three nights. Nothing can be seen, and the air will be laden with pestilence which will claim mainly, but not only, the enemies of religion. It will be impossible to use any man-made lighting during this darkness, except blessed candles. He, who out of curiosity, opens his window to look out, or leaves his home, will fall dead on the spot. During these three days, people should remain in their homes, pray the Rosary and beg God for mercy.”
“All the enemies of the Church, whether known or unknown, will perish over the whole earth during that universal darkness, with the exception of a few whom God will soon convert. The air shall be infected by demons who will appear under all sorts of hideous forms.” (Prophecy of Blessed Anna Maria Taigi (1769-1837 A.D.) who was Beatified by Pope Bendedict XV in 1920.)
**"Immediately after the distress of those days "‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
Matthew 24-29**
three days of compelte darkness. Only blessed candles made
of wax will give some light during this horrible darkness. One
candle will last for three days, but they will not give light in
the houses of the Godless. Lightning will penetrate your
houses, but it will not put out the blessed candles. Neither
wind, nor storm, nor earthquake will put out the blessed
candles. Red clouds, like blood, will cross the sky, and the
crash of thunder will shake the earth to its very core. The
ocean will cast its foaming waves over the land, and the earth
will be turned into a huge graveyard. The bodies of the
wicked and of the righteous will cover the face of the earth.
The famine that follows will be severe. All plant-life will be
destroyed as well as three-fourths of the human race. This
crisis will be sudden and the punishment will be world-wide."
The 3 Days of Darkness
Blessed Anna-Maria Taigi (19th century, Italy)
Blessed Anna Maria Taigi predicted a major and as of yet still fothcoming Chastisement for the world on account of its grave sins.”God will send two punishments: one will be in the form of wars, revolutions and other evils; it shall originate on earth. The other will be sent from Heaven. There shall come over the whole earth an intense darkness lasting three days and three nights. Nothing can be seen, and the air will be laden with pestilence which will claim mainly, but not only, the enemies of religion. It will be impossible to use any man-made lighting during this darkness, except blessed candles. He, who out of curiosity, opens his window to look out, or leaves his home, will fall dead on the spot. During these three days, people should remain in their homes, pray the Rosary and beg God for mercy.”
“All the enemies of the Church, whether known or unknown, will perish over the whole earth during that universal darkness, with the exception of a few whom God will soon convert. The air shall be infected by demons who will appear under all sorts of hideous forms.” (Prophecy of Blessed Anna Maria Taigi (1769-1837 A.D.) who was Beatified by Pope Bendedict XV in 1920.)
**"Immediately after the distress of those days "‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
Matthew 24-29**
T
TonyBS
Guest
This is interesting aspect - Signs in Heavens
It is said in Scripture and Tradition that at the time of the birth or announcement of every Messenger of God, a star or a sign appears in the heavens. Nimrod was warned of the star that told of the coming of Abraham. The soothsayers warned Pharaoh of the star in the heavens that foretold the coming of Moses. The Magi informed Herod of the new star that guided them to the throne of the “spiritual king,” Jesus. The same legend is told of Buddha, Zoroaster, Muhammad and Krishna.
What were the signs in the heavens during the appearance of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh? The holy Scriptures of all faiths had spoken of Twin-Revelations that would appear at the “time of the end.” Now that the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh had appeared, fulfilling these prophecies, what were the signs in the heavens? Signs, not for one, but for two Messengers of God, Who would appear almost simultaneously?
Some of us know the story of the great comet of 1843which foreshadowed the coming of the Báb. Sir James Jeans, late British astronomer and mathematician, stated in his book Through Space and Time, “oddly enough, many of the most conspicuous appearances of comets seem to have coincided with, or perhaps just anticipated, important events in history.” [Sir James Jeans, Through Space and Time, pp. 102, 154]
One of the most unique stories of a comet is that told of the period during which the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh were engaging correspondence, and during which the Báb was preparing His followers for the appearance of Bahá’u’lláh. This story was told in the stars as well as on the earth.
In 1845 a comet appeared soon after the one in 1843. It was called Biela’s Comet. It seemed to be an ordinary comet, in a year in which some 300 comets had appeared, and it had appeared many times before in the past. In 1846 it was still visible. At this period in its history, it became one of the unique comets of all time. It was now entering into the last dramatic moments of its life.
The Encyclopedia Americana gives the following account of this event:
“It was found again late in November 1845, and in the following month an observation was made of one of the most remarkable phenomena in astronomical records, the division of the comet. It put forth no tail while this alteration was going on. Professor Challis, using the Northumberland 1846, was inclined to distrust his eyes or his glass when he beheld two comets where but one had been before. He would call it, he said, a binary (twin) comet if such a thing had ever been heard of before. His observations were soon verified, however.” [Encyclopedia Americana, vol. III, 1994 Ed., p. 691]
History shows that there had been other binary (twin comets) but Biela’s was one of the most unusual. Sir James Jeans wrote of this same comet, saying: “The most interesting story is that of Rela’s comet which broke in two while under observation in 1846.”
The comet then disappeared. It returned in August, 1852. This was the very month and the very year in which Bahá’u’lláh was cast into an underground prison in Tihran.
This was the year 1269 of the calendar of Islam. It was also exactly the ninth year after the Báb’s Declaration to Mulla Husayn in the year 1260. The Bab had prophesied: “Ere nine years have elapsed” the Promised One of all ages and religions will come.
It was but a few weeks later, in that same prison, that Bahá’u’lláh’s Mission began.
August, 1852, was the hour of the reappearance of the comet, the comet that had split in two to become twin-comets. Strangely enough, at the time of the reappearance of the twin-comets in 1852, one half had receded far into the background. The other half, though in a parallel orbit, now dominated the scene. Just so had the Báb, the Herald of the Bahá’í Faith, passed into history, and the One Whose coming He had foretold, Bahá’u’lláh, had assumed His Mission.
The Americana record of this astronomical event states: “Late in August, 1852, the larger portion again came into view; and three weeks later the smaller one, now much fainter than its former companion was seen about 1,500,000 miles in the lead.” Sir James Jeans confirms this: “Six years later [1852], when the comet’s orbit again brought it near to the sun, two pieces were observed to be one and a half million miles apart.”
Of that hour when the twin-comets rode the skies above His prison, Bahá’u’lláh has written: “I was but a man like others, asleep upon my couch, when lo, the breezes of the All Glorious [God] were wafted over Me and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-knowing.” [Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, pp.]
Following this twin-appearance, Sir James Jeans states, “neither of them has been seen in cometary form, but the place where they ought to be is occupied by a swarm of millions of meteors, known as the Andromedid meteors. Occasionally these meet the earth in its orbit, and make a grand meteoric display.”
The two comets were no longer separate comets, but were mingled in one great shower of light, just as the Faith of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh are not separate but one in the light which they shed upon the earth.
(William Sears, Release the Sun, pp. 217-219)
It is said in Scripture and Tradition that at the time of the birth or announcement of every Messenger of God, a star or a sign appears in the heavens. Nimrod was warned of the star that told of the coming of Abraham. The soothsayers warned Pharaoh of the star in the heavens that foretold the coming of Moses. The Magi informed Herod of the new star that guided them to the throne of the “spiritual king,” Jesus. The same legend is told of Buddha, Zoroaster, Muhammad and Krishna.
What were the signs in the heavens during the appearance of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh? The holy Scriptures of all faiths had spoken of Twin-Revelations that would appear at the “time of the end.” Now that the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh had appeared, fulfilling these prophecies, what were the signs in the heavens? Signs, not for one, but for two Messengers of God, Who would appear almost simultaneously?
Some of us know the story of the great comet of 1843which foreshadowed the coming of the Báb. Sir James Jeans, late British astronomer and mathematician, stated in his book Through Space and Time, “oddly enough, many of the most conspicuous appearances of comets seem to have coincided with, or perhaps just anticipated, important events in history.” [Sir James Jeans, Through Space and Time, pp. 102, 154]
One of the most unique stories of a comet is that told of the period during which the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh were engaging correspondence, and during which the Báb was preparing His followers for the appearance of Bahá’u’lláh. This story was told in the stars as well as on the earth.
In 1845 a comet appeared soon after the one in 1843. It was called Biela’s Comet. It seemed to be an ordinary comet, in a year in which some 300 comets had appeared, and it had appeared many times before in the past. In 1846 it was still visible. At this period in its history, it became one of the unique comets of all time. It was now entering into the last dramatic moments of its life.
The Encyclopedia Americana gives the following account of this event:
“It was found again late in November 1845, and in the following month an observation was made of one of the most remarkable phenomena in astronomical records, the division of the comet. It put forth no tail while this alteration was going on. Professor Challis, using the Northumberland 1846, was inclined to distrust his eyes or his glass when he beheld two comets where but one had been before. He would call it, he said, a binary (twin) comet if such a thing had ever been heard of before. His observations were soon verified, however.” [Encyclopedia Americana, vol. III, 1994 Ed., p. 691]
History shows that there had been other binary (twin comets) but Biela’s was one of the most unusual. Sir James Jeans wrote of this same comet, saying: “The most interesting story is that of Rela’s comet which broke in two while under observation in 1846.”
The comet then disappeared. It returned in August, 1852. This was the very month and the very year in which Bahá’u’lláh was cast into an underground prison in Tihran.
This was the year 1269 of the calendar of Islam. It was also exactly the ninth year after the Báb’s Declaration to Mulla Husayn in the year 1260. The Bab had prophesied: “Ere nine years have elapsed” the Promised One of all ages and religions will come.
It was but a few weeks later, in that same prison, that Bahá’u’lláh’s Mission began.
August, 1852, was the hour of the reappearance of the comet, the comet that had split in two to become twin-comets. Strangely enough, at the time of the reappearance of the twin-comets in 1852, one half had receded far into the background. The other half, though in a parallel orbit, now dominated the scene. Just so had the Báb, the Herald of the Bahá’í Faith, passed into history, and the One Whose coming He had foretold, Bahá’u’lláh, had assumed His Mission.
The Americana record of this astronomical event states: “Late in August, 1852, the larger portion again came into view; and three weeks later the smaller one, now much fainter than its former companion was seen about 1,500,000 miles in the lead.” Sir James Jeans confirms this: “Six years later [1852], when the comet’s orbit again brought it near to the sun, two pieces were observed to be one and a half million miles apart.”
Of that hour when the twin-comets rode the skies above His prison, Bahá’u’lláh has written: “I was but a man like others, asleep upon my couch, when lo, the breezes of the All Glorious [God] were wafted over Me and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-knowing.” [Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, pp.]
Following this twin-appearance, Sir James Jeans states, “neither of them has been seen in cometary form, but the place where they ought to be is occupied by a swarm of millions of meteors, known as the Andromedid meteors. Occasionally these meet the earth in its orbit, and make a grand meteoric display.”
The two comets were no longer separate comets, but were mingled in one great shower of light, just as the Faith of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh are not separate but one in the light which they shed upon the earth.
(William Sears, Release the Sun, pp. 217-219)
O
openmind77
Guest
Yes, this is true that the coming of a Messenger of God has usually been preceded by the appearance of a new star in the sky. In the case of Jesus, it was the Star of Bethlehem. However, the appearance of a comet has usually been considered a sign of impending doom. Perhaps in the case of the Bab and Bahaullah, the comets were more auspicious signs?
In any case, the problem is that if the Bab and Bahaullah were indeed the Return of the Mahdi and Return of Jesus respectively, they would have been quite well known and well accepted as such by now. I know that the Bahai think that since it took several hundred years after Jesus’s death to establish Christianity and for Jesus to be recognized by millions of people as a ‘Son of God’, it is not a problem that Bahaullah and Bahaism are still not accepted by that many people yet (I have Ahmadi friends who make the same argument).
But the first coming should not be compared to the second coming. The first one was two thousand years ago - what took several hundred years then should not take even 100 days today. Just because Jesus suffered and was crucified in his first coming, does not mean there will be any suffering the second time (so Bahaullah’s imprisonment should not be compared to Jesus’s suffering).
In fact the Second Coming, is supposed to be ‘with power and great glory’ and ‘every eye will see him’. The Second Coming will be nothing like the first one. The Bab and Bahaullah pair just don’t fit the bill. Of course ‘every eye will see him’ probably just means the Christ will be on TV, but he definitely will not be a relatively obscure person like Bahaullah. It will not take long - not even a 100 days, for every one to know about him (whether they accept him or not).
The Return of the Mahdi and subsequently (maybe couple of years late) the Return of Jesus will happen quite soon, so it may be good idea to look for new stars in the sky. They both will be well known through out the world pretty quickly after their Return in this globalized, electronic age. (As for the Bab and Bahaullah, even unimportant politicians and entertainers have more twitter followers than the number of people who have heard about these two.)
T
Techno2000
Guest
**For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.…
Matthew 24:38**
Matthew 24:38**
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TonyBS
Guest
This has unfolded as foretold, also consider;
1 Pet 3:3-7 'First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Man always thinks He is not part of the scoffing, but even when we say we believe we are still prone to it.
Regards Tony
T
Techno2000
Guest
You’re right we do scoff at the idea of Bahá’u’lláh being the second coming of Jesus Christ.
T
TonyBS
Guest
God bless the scoffers, your most welcome
“By My life! Mine heart groaneth and mine eyes weep sore for the Cause of God and for them that understand not what they say and imagine what they cannot comprehend”.
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, sec. 100, p. 203)
“In the beginning of every Revelation adversities have prevailed, which later on have been turned into great prosperity”.
(Bahá’u’lláh, cited in Shoghi Effendi, “The Advent of Divine Justice” (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1984), p. 82)
You see it is rejection an sacrafice that feeds Gods Faiths and it is foretold;
"We foresee that in every city people will arise to suppress the Blessed Beauty, that the companions of that Lord of being and ultimate Desire of all men will flee from the face of the oppressor and seek refuge from him in the wilderness, whilst others will resign themselves and, with absolute detachment, will sacrifice their lives in His path…
(Bahá’u’lláh, “Kitáb-i-Íqán”, 2nd. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1983) pp. 165-166; p. 248)
This time yet to come, but it will come and we willl Love you all
“The prestige of the Faith of God has immensely increased. Its greatness is now manifest. The day is approaching when it will have cast a tremendous tumult in men’s hearts. Rejoice, therefore, O denizens of America, rejoice with exceeding gladness!”
(`Abdu’l-Bahá, cited in Shoghi Effendi, “The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh: Selected Letters”, rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1982), p. 79)
If you wish to see how this will unfold in the coming years, a Link - bahai-library.com/compilation_crisis_victory
Regards Tony
T
Techno2000
Guest
**Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.God bless the scoffers, your most welcome
“By My life! Mine heart groaneth and mine eyes weep sore for the Cause of God and for them that understand not what they say and imagine what they cannot comprehend”.
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, sec. 100, p. 203)
“In the beginning of every Revelation adversities have prevailed, which later on have been turned into great prosperity”.
(Bahá’u’lláh, cited in Shoghi Effendi, “The Advent of Divine Justice” (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1984), p. 82)
You see it is rejection an sacrafice that feeds Gods Faiths and it is foretold;
"We foresee that in every city people will arise to suppress the Blessed Beauty, that the companions of that Lord of being and ultimate Desire of all men will flee from the face of the oppressor and seek refuge from him in the wilderness, whilst others will resign themselves and, with absolute detachment, will sacrifice their lives in His path…
(Bahá’u’lláh, “Kitáb-i-Íqán”, 2nd. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1983) pp. 165-166; p. 248)
This time yet to come, but it will come and we willl Love you all
“The prestige of the Faith of God has immensely increased. Its greatness is now manifest. The day is approaching when it will have cast a tremendous tumult in men’s hearts. Rejoice, therefore, O denizens of America, rejoice with exceeding gladness!”
(`Abdu’l-Bahá, cited in Shoghi Effendi, “The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh: Selected Letters”, rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá’í Publishing Trust, 1982), p. 79)
If you wish to see how this will unfold in the coming years, a Link - bahai-library.com/compilation_crisis_victory
Regards Tony
Matthew 24-23
**
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