End times

[Lilyflower]

The Renewal Movement talks none stop about us being in the ‘end-times’ when the anti-Christ is about to come to the fore.

They even assert that he was born in 1963 and can be known if you know where to look.

Some in the Renewal Movement are reconciled to the belief that the end of the world is almost upon us, no longer make long-term plans in the belief there is no ‘long-term’ left to speculate about!

I hear no such rhetoric from Traditional Catholicism. Is this phenomena unique to the Renewal Movement or could they know something the rest of us do not?

Blessings and peace

 

[puzzleannie]

don’t know what group you are referring to when you speak of “Renewal Movement”
can you provide a link?

 

[Lilyflower]

don’t know what group you are referring to when you speak of “Renewal Movement”
can you provide a link?

Sorry, not skilled enough to do technical stuff on computer.

By Renewal I mean the Charasmatic Renewal.

It is very big in UK. It is often known as Catholic Pentecostilism.

Catholics involved over here often co-worship in both Catholic and Pentecostal Church’s. They often speak in strange tongues making sounds no one understands but which they say is a mystery language so that satan does not understand what they are saying. That is the best way I can describe them.

The inner sanctum of most parishes.

Blessings and peace

 

[KingAlfred]

The Renewal Movement talks none stop about us being in the ‘end-times’ when the anti-Christ is about to come to the fore.

They even assert that he was born in 1963 and can be known if you know where to look.

Some in the Renewal Movement are reconciled to the belief that the end of the world is almost upon us, no longer make long-term plans in the belief there is no ‘long-term’ left to speculate about!

I hear no such rhetoric from Traditional Catholicism. Is this phenomena unique to the Renewal Movement or could they know something the rest of us do not?

Blessings and peace

Screaming and fretting about the End Times tend to be Protestant problems, derived from literal interpretations of the Bible. A few years ago, I worked with some heavy-hitting evangelicals who believed Hurricane Rita was initiating The Rapture. I privately laughed my narrow fanny off.

 

[Lilyflower]

Screaming and fretting about the End Times tend to be Protestant problems, derived from literal interpretations of the Bible. A few years ago, I worked with some heavy-hitting evangelicals who believed Hurricane Rita was initiating The Rapture. I privately laughed my narrow fanny off.

Well that makes sense. I have noticed that members of our local Charasmatic Renewal do spend a lot of time worshipping and ‘praising’ with Protestants. Nothing wrong with that I guess but
Our Charasmatics have very close ties with Protestant Charasmatics. In fact I have observed Catholic Charasmatics closer theologically to Protestant Charasmatics than they are to Traditional Catholics and indeed they will tell you this themselves.

So I guess you have answered [or helped me to answer] my own question. Thank you.

I am not casting slurs against Catholic Charasmatics, they in my experience spend a lot of time reading the Sacred Scriptures.

Blessings and peace

 

[The_Prodigal]

Lilyflower, If I understand the question in your original post correctly, Catholic theology does anticipate the end of the world and a Last Judgement.

 

[Lilyflower]

Lilyflower, If I understand the question in your original post correctly, Catholic theology does anticipate the end of the world and a Last Judgement.

Of course Catholic theology anticipates it seeings it is also scriptural but my point is that some Catholics do not seem to worry unduly about it while others worry so much they do not plan more than a few weeks ahead, certain it is iminment. These seem to be Catholics of the Charasmatic Renewal

Blessings and peace.

 

[narrowpath]

The idea of a Pre-trib Rapture, seven year tribulation, etc, (found in the Left Behind series) only came in the 19th century. It was taught by a group of protestant preachers, and eventually led to groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

What does the Church teach as dogma?

“And He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and to His Kingdom there will be no end”
-Nicene Creed

 

[KingAlfred]

Well that makes sense. I have noticed that members of our local Charasmatic Renewal do spend a lot of time worshipping and ‘praising’ with Protestants. Nothing wrong with that I guess but
Our Charasmatics have very close ties with Protestant Charasmatics. In fact I have observed Catholic Charasmatics closer theologically to Protestant Charasmatics than they are to Traditional Catholics and indeed they will tell you this themselves.

So I guess you have answered [or helped me to answer] my own question. Thank you.

I am not casting slurs against Catholic Charasmatics, they in my experience spend a lot of time reading the Sacred Scriptures.

Blessings and peace

I don’t like the Catholic charismatic movement for the reasons you just cited. It’s not authentically Catholic. It’s a dangerous compromise.

 

[Lilyflower]

I don’t like the Catholic charismatic movement for the reasons you just cited. It’s not authentically Catholic. It’s a dangerous compromise.

Yes, and the ‘praying in tongues - babbling’. They say it is a secret language known only to God and that satan does not understand it. The truth is 'no-one understands it!!!

Citing the Apostles at Pentecost when they stood up and everyone heard them in their own language as ‘proof tongues were a gift from the Holy Spirit’. But the Apostles at Pentecost spoke a language everyone heard and understood. Charasmatic tongues are non-sensical, no one understands them!!

Standing up and 'giving witness, preaching without any theology training and without sanction from the Parish Priest, how can they be sure they are not teaching error? This is where talk of ‘the End times’ and ‘the rapture’ comes from, which just is not Catholic or theologically correct. The mixing of Catholicism with Protestant worship just does not hang right. As you say a dangerous game.

I am sure there are genuine folk among them. But I note their conspicous absence from groups such as SVP, CWL KSC, Church cleaning, gardening, Church maintenance and all the boring jobs.

There are a lot of devotions in our beloved Church but I think there can be none more sound than being before the Blessed Sacrament.

Blessings and peace.

 

[puzzleannie]

Sorry, not skilled enough to do technical stuff on computer.

By Renewal I mean the Charasmatic Renewal.

It is very big in UK. It is often known as Catholic Pentecostilism.

have been involved or in touch with, in one way or another, with the Catholic Charismatic renewal since the 70s and never heard what you describe in OP. I have heard from other quasi-Catholic sites about apocolyptic stuff, but not specifically from the CCR, but then the people I listen to are pretty orthodox, Fr. George Montague etc. The one website that does get out there, and has some links to CCR, is spiritdaily (news of the weird Catholic-style), but I never thought of that way out chastisement stuff as a feature of the CCR.

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t like the Catholic charismatic movement for the reasons you just cited. It’s not authentically Catholic. It’s a dangerous compromise.

since what Lily describes is NOT characteristic of the CCR in general, your dislike is not well founded, at least not on that basis. if criticizing this orthodox, sound, Vatican approved spirituality within the Church is not a banned topic here, it ought to be. why not stick to Lily’s question and not cast nasturtiums w/o foundation.

the proper forum is the Spirituality one, since as Lily notes, unless you go back to the Acts of the Apostles this is not a “Traditional Catholic” topic. If you condemn the CCR you must be prepared to condemn Acts wholesale as well. Lily asks about Revelation, so why not stick to that topic?

Can Lily, or someone, give a link to a source within the orthodox Catholic Charismatic Renewal that, in poster’s opinion, goes overboard with sound Catholic teaching on end times. If not, what are we discussing?

 

[Lilyflower]

have been involved or in touch with, in one way or another, with the Catholic Charismatic renewal since the 70s and never heard what you describe in OP. I have heard from other quasi-Catholic sites about apocolyptic stuff, but not specifically from the CCR, but then the people I listen to are pretty orthodox, Fr. George Montague etc. The one website that does get out there, and has some links to CCR, is spiritdaily (news of the weird Catholic-style), but I never thought of that way out chastisement stuff as a feature of the CCR.

We used to have a very powerful Charasmatic Renewal group in our parish and suddenly ‘hey presto’ a lot of very depressed parishioners. That was until one [or several individually] sought advice from the PP that they had been approached by the leaders of the Renewal Movement and told ‘they must join because if they are not with the Renewal Movement then they do not have Christ in their lives because Christ is only to be found in the Renewal Movement.!’

The PP with one foul swoop and announcement at the end of just one Sunday Mass kicked that one into touch!!!

My concern is that this sort of advice was no doubt well intentioned with a view to trying to coerce Catholics on the margins to fuller participation in the life of Catholic worship but it had the opposite effect. It just marginalised them even more.

I am sure Christ can be found within the Renewal Movement but also can a lot of ill, unsound and unqualified advice.

So where did talk of the Rapture and ‘End times’ come from and why is it such a big topic for the Renewal Movement [as well as JW’s],

Our local Renewal assert with some confidence that the anti-Christ is now present in the world which signals the start of the end times and that he was born in 1963 in a middle eastern country. Where does this tie in with Sacred Scripture?

Is this also being propagated by all Renewal groups or is it unique to our particular group?

Is anyone from the Renewal Movement prepared to say who this character born in 1963 is? Doesn’t the rest of Christendom have a right to know?

Blessings and peace.

 

[rwoehmke]

This sort of thing often happens when a Charismatic Prayer Group goes Ecumenical and is joined by people from other faiths. A “traditional” Charismatic Prayer Group or Community makes itself subject to the pastor and has leadership that keeps the group orthodox in its theology. In our parish at one point in time we had an ecumenical Charismatic prayer group of over 200 members. All at once all but a dozen people left their respective churches and formed a new pentecostal church.

Shortly after, I joined the remnant of twelve and we started over. We explicitly made ourselves subject to our pastor and under my urging declared that we would follow orthodox theology and beliefs. We grew to about 100 members who met every Tuesday night in the meeting room of the church for praise and prayer. Many of the gifts such as are ascribed to the Holy Spirit became manifest in the group, not the least of which was Charity.

In many ways the level of spirituality in our parish increased and a genuine renewal took place. After more than a decade, the group died out, but many of the people from the group and many who were touched by our Life in the Spirit Seminars are most active in their parishes(Some have changed locations). Five of those members have become deacons, our parish continues to have yearly Bible studies, we have adoration 24/5 and working toward 24/7, we have Tuesday night family rosary led by some of the old members, and some who ended up as Faith Formation teachers for our young people.

I dare to say, being subject to the pastor instead of the other way around had a lot to do with the positive fall out. We did have a few non-Catholics who showed up for LITS seminars who eventually signed up for RCIA and became Catholics. I fully realize that the spirituality of Catholic Charismatics is different than some “traditional” spiritualities but it is quite legitimate and like one of the political parties said, “There is plenty of room under the tent” particularly in the Catholic Church.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

“No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation.” David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations



During one conversation, Rockefeller asked Russo if he was interested in joining the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) but Russo rejected the invitation, saying he had no interest in “enslaving the people” to which Rockefeller coldly questioned why he cared about the “serfs.”

“I used to say to him what’s the point of all this,” states Russo, “you have all the money in the world you need, you have all the power you need, what’s the point, what’s the end goal?” to which Rockefeller replied (paraphrasing), “The end goal is to get everybody chipped, to control the whole society, to have the bankers and the elite people control the world.”

Rockefeller even assured Russo that if he joined the elite his chip would be specially marked so as to avoid undue inspection by the authorities.

Looks like the vision St. John the Apostle recorded in Revelation is coming soon!

 

[Lilyflower]

“No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation.” David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations



During one conversation, Rockefeller asked Russo if he was interested in joining the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) but Russo rejected the invitation, saying he had no interest in “enslaving the people” to which Rockefeller coldly questioned why he cared about the “serfs.”

“I used to say to him what’s the point of all this,” states Russo, “you have all the money in the world you need, you have all the power you need, what’s the point, what’s the end goal?” to which Rockefeller replied (paraphrasing), "The end goal is to get everybody chipped, to control the whole society, to have the bankers and the elite people control the world."

Rockefeller even assured Russo that if he joined the elite his chip would be specially marked so as to avoid undue inspection by the authorities.

Looks like the vision St. John the Apostle recorded in Revelation is coming soon!

My emphasis.

I doubt very much that adults would wear [pun intended] being chipped. But it does appear concevable that a process could take place whereby children are chipped at birth.

It could be easily justified in the UK by calling it ‘part of the war on terror!’ The authorities would state that it will never become widespread use and start with chipping the children of dysfunctional families. Then there would be an issue of prejudice raised, so to overcome it, it would be necessary to chip everyone.

People would agree to it on the basis that a few would argue: ‘if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear!’ Then everyone would feel obliged to avoid being thought of as odd, not conforming to social convention or worse: labelled as retrobate.

At the moment it appears unlikely with micro technology but we are entering the age of nano-technology where the chips would be so small, you simply would not know you had been chipped. A single chip would be so small you would not be able to see it, much less feel it.

As we enter the money-less age, there would be no need for cash or debit cards, you would simply put a hand under the scanner at the local supermarket. Of course if you did not have a chip you would be in trouble as you would not be able to buy or sell goods, or participate in the local economy.

Scary stuff

Blessings and peace

 

[whiteknite]

Not sure what to make of this but here it goes:-
Viewing a few Utube vids the otherday i came across something about the Pope and Anti-Christ so i searched it on Wilki-Pedia…
Anyone else seen or heard anything about this Saint with visions??
Link:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

 

[historyb]

It’s said to be fake, but I don’t know.

 

[historyb]

My emphasis.

I doubt very much that adults would wear [pun intended] being chipped. But it does appear concevable that a process could take place whereby children are chipped at birth.

It could be easily justified in the UK by calling it ‘part of the war on terror!’ The authorities would state that it will never become widespread use and start with chipping the children of dysfunctional families. Then there would be an issue of prejudice raised, so to overcome it, it would be necessary to chip everyone.

People would agree to it on the basis that a few would argue: ‘if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear!’ Then everyone would feel obliged to avoid being thought of as odd, not conforming to social convention or worse: labelled as retrobate.

At the moment it appears unlikely with micro technology but we are entering the age of nano-technology where the chips would be so small, you simply would not know you had been chipped. A single chip would be so small you would not be able to see it, much less feel it.

As we enter the money-less age, there would be no need for cash or debit cards, you would simply put a hand under the scanner at the local supermarket. Of course if you did not have a chip you would be in trouble as you would not be able to buy or sell goods, or participate in the local economy.

Scary stuff

Blessings and peace

On an episode of the Mythbusters one of the interns got chipped for a myth. It was relatively easy procedure I could see this coming very easily into vogue here in the US if the wrong person got in the white house imho.

 

[agnostic]

Not sure what to make of this but here it goes:-
Viewing a few Utube vids the otherday i came across something about the Pope and Anti-Christ so i searched it on Wilki-Pedia…
Anyone else seen or heard anything about this Saint with visions??
Link:- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Whoa

So there’s like only one more pope to go after this one and it all goes Bang

I need to get some shopping done - I’ve got nothing to wear