Enforced tithing

[nicolep]

I agree with Lil M that stated 10% sometimes was too much. When I first got out of college, I had very little. I got my first job and moved out on my own. I lived in a very tiny duplex, had a 1978 Dodge Diplomat (that was in 2000), no cable, bills out the wazoo and about $40 to put gas in my car (to get to work) and eat for two weeks. I told you there was no cable to point out that I didn’t have any frivolous spending. I got my clothes from Goodwill and my parents helped when what I made wasn’t enough to make it through until the next pay day. At that time, 10% of what I earned would have left me with negative $10 to get gas and food.

I gave what I could at my parish. It wasn’t much, but it was literally all I could give. I hope that I contributed in other ways.

Thankfully, 9 years later I am in a much better financial position and I give about 10% financially. I give much more than that in my time.

The whole point is that we work in order to care for ourselves and immediate family…not to pay the church down the street 10% or whatever. Our lives are lived for God. Our jobs are worked to support us. If tithing makes you feel good…fantastic. Imagine how good it will feel to feed your children without someone else’s help.

 

[StratusRose]

The 10% tithe is what’s standard, but if you cannot give 10% then you are not asked to. Also, if you are a millionaire, you can probably give more than 10%. This is why there is hard and fast rule in tithing. Also, if you cannot afford to tithe you can give your time to the church (ie RCIA, St. Vincent de Paul Society, Food Pantry).

 

[mercygate]

Does anyone else see a possible case of child neglect here?

From whom whom would you be taking out the teeth, the OP or the neglectful parents?

The parents, of course. I would have done what the OP did: fed the kids.

Maybe a smart person would have taken the kids to the church (where the parents were attending a meeting if I recall), walked them in and said, “The kids haven’t had dinner.” And wait for the fireworks.

 

[Mark77]

ACTS 4:34 “There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of what was sold
35 and laid it at the apostles’ feet; and distribution was made to each as any had need.”

Doesn’t sound like Jesus would approve if the children are hungry.

I bet the ‘pastor’ and his family are not starving.

Sancta Maria, Mater dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[nicolep]

The 10% tithe is what’s standard, but if you cannot give 10% then you are not asked to. Also, if you are a millionaire, you can probably give more than 10%. This is why there is hard and fast rule in tithing. Also, if you cannot afford to tithe you can give your time to the church (ie RCIA, St. Vincent de Paul Society, Food Pantry).

There is no tithing requirement in the Catholic Church. I was referring to the OP and the 10% requirement in some protestant churches.

 

[Ruthie]

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

 **25** "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of **extortion and rapacity**. **26** You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean.  Matt 23:23-26 (RSV)

emphasis mine.

The sheer wickedness of putting a pretty church building over the welfare of one’s children!

By the way, these passages (the Woes) are the only place Jesus mentions tithing. It seems He didn’t like it much…

Another note: I’ve heard that tithing meant one in ten, as opposed to 10 per cent. In other words, if you had ten sheep, you gave one. If you only had nine, you gave nothing.

Aroused to anger,

Ruthie

 

[noclevername]

Another note: I’ve heard that tithing meant one in ten, as opposed to 10 per cent. In other words, if you had ten sheep, you gave one. If you only had nine, you gave nothing.

Aroused to anger,

Ruthie

One in ten is the same thing as 10%. But in the sheep example, the only reason you don’t give 10% if you only have nine sheep is because it’s impossible to give .9 sheep. Which brings me to my point. The family in question needs to understand that right now they only have nine sheep. They need to keep their ninth sheep intact because if they kill the sheep so they can give .9 of a sheep to a church and only keep .1 of the sheep, it’s one less sheep everyone will have and no one benefit, not the family or the church. It will keep going, next it will be give .8 sheep and keep .2 sheep, give .7 sheep keep .3 sheep, etc. When all is said and done, all they are going to have is a bunch of dead sheep which helps no one. They won’t have any live sheep to multiply and reproduce and make wool, etc. And the church will be worse off too because they won’t have those members who might have a whole flock of sheep in a few years if they are allowed to keep the nine sheep now. Yeah, I went off on a tangent but can you follow me even a little bit?

Also, most Protestant churches suggest 10% for tithing but no one is ever judged in public if they can’t give. This church the OP is speaking of is NOT the norm, please remember that.

And Canon law does say that Catholics are suppose to give to the church but there isn’t a set percentage nor does it say it has to be monetary.

can. 222 §1, in the Code of Canon Law, “The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers.”

 

[cheeto1]

Look at the end of verse 23, “these you should have practiced,
without neglecting the others.” If Jesus didn’t like the idea of
tithing much, then why does He say “these you should have
practiced”. I do not like where the logic is going here. The
family is taking advantage of another family, that’s not caused
by tithing. This is bad logic. Why isn’t it caused by restaurants or internet or cable tv? We don’t know how that family is wasting
their money. This is like saying a person has no clean laundry for the reason that they pray the rosary, so they don’t have enough time. If it isn’t required, they shouldn’t do it. Then their family would have clean laundry, because they didn’t “waste their time” praying the rosary. Does that seem reasonable either?

 

[noclevername]

The
family is taking advantage of another family, that’s not caused
by tithing. This is bad logic. Why isn’t it caused by restaurants or internet or cable tv? We don’t know how that family is wasting
their money.

I am wondering this too. There are four adults living under one roof. (The OP says the family in question lives with the in-laws). Where is their money going? I don’t like to hear about kids starving but it also sounds like this might be a time for tough love. Those parents won’t let their kids starve.

Also, could them asking you for monetary help be their way of getting you to “tithe”?

 

[noclevername]

There is no tithing requirement in the Catholic Church. I was referring to the OP and the 10% requirement in some protestant churches.

And Canon law does say that Catholics are suppose to give to the church but there isn’t a set percentage nor does it say it has to be monetary.

can. 222 §1, in the Code of Canon Law, “The Christian faithful are obliged to assist with the needs of the Church so that the Church has what is necessary for divine worship, for the works of the apostolate and of charity, and for the decent support of ministers.”

 

[BnR808]

Just looking at the responses, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who feels angered. I thought I was going nuts. Anyway – to clarify some questions I saw in the thread –

1. The church in question is a small church – less than 100 people, and in some strange way, everyone there is related to each other.
2. Yes, there are 4 working adults in the family and I have the same question too – “Where is the money going?” My in-laws aren’t extravagant spenders, and we’ve asked them before what they do with the money, most of the time the answer is they had to pay something for the church.
3. Tithing isn’t their only financial obligation at their church. I mentioned earlier the church members paid for the food and supplies in plate sales, but also, each family is responsible for a number of enforced tickets. So for example, my husband was responsible for selling 20 tickets, 10 of which were enforced, so whether or not he sold the all the tickets, as far as the church was concerned, he’s already bought 10 and at 10 bucks a plate that’s $100. They have plate sales almost every month.
4. Names are called out in front of the church because the pastor “cares if his church members are getting blessed.” He says he handles the tithing in this manner because he wants everyone to be blessed and if they’re not faithfully doing their tithing, it’s his job as pastor to get them back on track.

I hope I didn’t make it sound like my in-laws were bad people. Their whole lives are invested in church, perhaps too much because obviously the kids and the bills are taking a backseat to their church obligations. They’re good people, and I love them to death. But please, keep the kids in your prayers. My husband and I always make it a point to include them in our outings if possible, 'cause with all the family money going to church, they rarely get a chance to do something fun, like going to the movies, etc.

 

[Catholic90]

Sounds like a cult.

 

[CB_Catholic]

My in-laws belong to a Pentecostal church that strongly emphasizes, if not mandates, tithing. Every month, there is a church meeting to discuss the church report/finances, and included in the report is a report of each person’s tithe. If someone isn’t giving their tithe, they are called out on it in front of everyone, causing those people to feel embarrassed and guilty. My husband, who is still going to his family’s church (but God-willing, he’s starting to see the errors and is contemplating coming to Mass regularly with me )
has his name called out all the time.

Anyways, the last straw I had with my in-laws church was when we had a phone call saying the kids (my husband’s nieces and nephews) were hungry.

My husband asked where his sister and brother in law were and why they didn’t buy food for the kids. FYI: My sister in law and her husband and their 4 kids all live with my mom/dad in law. They were at the church, we were told, and it wouldn’t have made a difference, because they all just gave their tithing and were broke.

So I’m sitting there, looking at 4 hungry kids, feeling so angry about this all. So we bought some groceries and brought it back to their house, and ordered pizza and sodas for the kids who literally inhaled the pizza. My husband and I aren’t well-off or anything, we have a kid of our own and are living on one income, but I hated to see these kids hungry.

The week after that incident, my mother-in-law started telling me how she feels so good after she does her tithing, that as long as she gives her tithing, she feels at ease and knows blessings will come her way.

okay, so I’m not sure if I want advice or just a space to vent lol, but should I have said anything? And if so, what? I’m well-grounded in the Church’s teaching on offering etc, but for some reason I just sat there nodding lol. I really wanted to say something, but I didn’t want to burst her bubble since she was near tears when she was talking about tithing. Mind you, there have been at least 2 occasions where the kids had to sleep over at my apartment since their electric bill money had gone to their church.

My mother in law frequently has these tithing conversations with me, I think, in hopes of getting me to convince her son to start tithing.

what to say, what to say.

Since you asked–yeah you should have said something. You should point out to all of them that allowing kids to go hungry and not providing a safe place for them to sleep is child neglect and reportable to CPS, especially when there is the financial means to care for them. These are children at the mercy of irresponsible adults. Just praying for them is not going to cut it–some intervention in their behalf is necessary for their safety and well-being. They may be nice people, but they are not caring for their children properly. There is a moral responsibility here for you or your husband to see that this situation does not go on any longer. This is not a time to be nice, not when children’s well-being is at stake. This is a tough thing to hear, but you are involved, this is your family, you need to confront them and report them if necessary.

 

[dad_o_six]

I read this a couple days ago and thought about it since. First, some people just don’t get what it’s like living in today’s economy. Second, tithing is the old covenant; this is not to say that it might not be a bad idea, like for example not eating pork. Third, I’d write an anonymous letter to the minister stating your concern about the kids not always having enough to eat and the utilities being turned off.

Of course, they’ll probably figure out who wrote the letter, but you don’t have to admit it. Outwardly, they would think you were a liar. Inwardly, they would know that not everything is so black and white. Or maybe they wouldn’t.

But I wouldn’t follow any advice without first consulting your husband. This is a real opportunity for you to discuss a faith in the mystery of God, rather than the rules and regulations. This is also an opportunity for you to bring your neices and nephews to the one and only true church, on down the line. There is some recent evidence that children very rarely stay into adulthood in churches like the one you mentioned.

 

[Ruthie]

Cheeto,

I’m not saying that we should not support the Church. My DH and I choose to tithe, for that matter. But read the whole verse: “for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.”

Justice and mercy and faith. It is not just to give so much to the church that you can’t feed your children. It is not merciful either. And if it involves faith, then that faith has been perverted. At the very least, it makes people like me see that particular church as being “full of extortion and rapacity.”

Praying for that family,

Ruthie