Engaged to a Christadelphian - HELP!!!

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Wubba

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The love of my life proposed November 2009. We have been dating nearly two years now. He told me when we first started dating that he was a Christian – a Christadelphian. However, at the time, I didn’t really know what that meant. He said he was a Christian, and that was enough for me. It wasn’t until we got engaged that I realized the seriousness of our differences in belief.

He is 32 and has been raised a Christadelphian by his mother…his whole life. I love his family, but I am afraid for him. He believes he has the truth. We have been trying to study and read the Bible together, but we have been staying away from our doctrinal differences because we just end up in a heated, emotional, yelling mess of an argument because there is so much passion and emotion involved in our faith and between us.

I have been reading the Bible more than ever myself as well, and feel that I have several verses that ‘prove’ beyond any doubt that Christ is God. Although we haven’t discussed all of the verses I have come across, he always has an ‘explanation’ for the ones we have discussed. Sometimes I feel like it is hopeless and he is just completely blinded by these beliefs that he has been fed.

Does anyone have any good verses I may have missed or any good books that might be of help? I have C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity, but we haven’t made it to that, yet. I know that it will all come from God. That God is going to have to reveal Himself to him, but any help, recommendations, and prayer are greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know of or has anyone ever heard of a Christadelphian converting to mainstream Christianity (regardless of denomination)? If so, I feel that would be extremely helpful.

In Christ,
Wubba
 
Hi Wubba,

I’m a middle aged ex CD. I left a number of years ago for a variety of reasons. I have no axe to grind either way and am vaguely agnostic. I have a Google alert to anything relating to CDs and this pointed me towards your question. I don’t usually look at this website.

There are of course any number of verses that can be pulled up to support the views of most religious groups. You can spend hours swapping them without coming to a conclusion. There is nothing that you can find that will change his mind and I suspect from what you say he’s not going to change yours.

CDs take a very hard line against “marrying out”. If he marries you he will be “disfellowshipped” but allowed back in fairly soon. He and his mother will be counting in converting you before you get married. That’s fine if thats what you want. CDs are no more a cult than the catholics are.

I’ve known a few CDs change faith to Pentecostal or lose their faith like me. But I can’t think of any that have become Catholics. His mother certainly will be very careful about that.

Take Care,

Androcles
 
I don’t mean to make light of your situation, but I’m reminded of an old joke:

Mother: Marry Tom, he’s a wonderful young man!

Daughter: Mother, I can’t marry Tom, he’s a Christadelphian. Why, he doesn’t even believe in hell!

Mother: Marry him! Between the two of us, we’ll convince him he’s wrong!

Mixed marriages CAN work, if the partners agree to go their own ways worship-wise and agree that neither will try to convert the other - ever. My parents had such a marriage, there was no discord whatever. Other such unions are not so blissful.

Of course, you would have to agree that the children will be Catholics.
 
Androcles said:
Hi Wubba,

I’m a middle aged ex CD. I left a number of years ago for a variety of reasons. I have no axe to grind either way and am vaguely agnostic. I have a Google alert to anything relating to CDs and this pointed me towards your question. I don’t usually look at this website.

There are of course any number of verses that can be pulled up to support the views of most religious groups. You can spend hours swapping them without coming to a conclusion. There is nothing that you can find that will change his mind and I suspect from what you say he’s not going to change yours.

CDs take a very hard line against “marrying out”. If he marries you he will be “disfellowshipped” but allowed back in fairly soon. He and his mother will be counting in converting you before you get married. That’s fine if thats what you want. CDs are no more a cult than the catholics are.

I’ve known a few CDs change faith to Pentecostal or lose their faith like me. But I can’t think of any that have become Catholics. His mother certainly will be very careful about that.

Take Care,

Androcles
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Androcles,
Welcome to the boards.
I’m glad that you were googled here as you may be of great help to our sister.

Your cautionary statements above will hopefully give her pause about continuing with this relationship into marriage under the current circumstances.

Peace
James
 
Marriage is a very hard vocation. There’s no need in making it harder than it has to be. Break up with this guy and find a good Catholic. I’d hate to spend my life married to someone who is going to hell and going to try to lead your children to hell with him.
Dump him.
 
One aspect of a sacramental marriage is that the two people are to help each other attain Heaven. They are also supposed to be very close. Marrying someone who is not Catholic makes each of these aspects much harder, and marrying with the idea of changing the other person absolutely never works.

Marriage is hard enough without making it more difficult at its core…
 
Wubba said:
but we have been staying away from our doctrinal differences because we just end up in a heated, emotional, yelling mess of an argument because there is so much passion and emotion involved in our faith and between us.
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This is just a snapshot of what your marriage will be like. You will be fighting like this every day. Your wedding day will be the only happy day of your life.
 
Desertsailor said:
Your wedding day will be the only happy day of your life.
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And probably not even that day given the huge differences in these two religions and the battle that will likely ensue over *where *to be married and by whom.
 
Wubba,

You ignored the elephant in the living room for two years while you allowed youreself to become emotionally attached to someone who is not well suited to be your husband.

In marriage we become one with our spouse. We form a family and we raise them up in the faith.

How do you propose to do this with someone whose belief system is so vastly different from yours?

Frankly, you’ve been tip-toeing around this for a long time, and you already know what you need to do. End it.

It is a wonderful thing to try to bring another person to the faith, out of love of God and the goodness of your heart. It is quite another thing to try to convince someone of this because you want to marry them. This is called “missionary dating” and the emotional involvement puts undue pressure on the other party and is neither fair nor smart.

If he wants to learn about the Catholic faith or become Catholic it should not be to please you or because he has fear of losing you.

If the relationship cannot stand on its own two feet exactly as it is now– each of you believing totally different things about God and Christ-- it will not work as a marriage.
 
I too thought of telling wubba that she should consider breaking off the engagement with this fellow - at least until they work this out. However since request was for apologetic materials to present to her fiance I did not.

I think that your final statements abotu God needing to reveal the Truth to him is exactly right. Nothing that you can provide from the bible will likely do it. Most of the verses you could use his sect has already considered and come up with responses to. Nothing from the Early Church will do it since these are not in “The Bible”. So I’d suggest you stay away from these as direct sources.

More recent apologists and converts might give some insight to him but the more closed off and anti-ctholic the group, the less likely these are to have any impact. All he’ll do is justify his position citing that “…even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed”. (Gal 1:8)

I don’t say this to make you stop talking to this person, but rather to show what you are up against and ask you to consider, as others have said, whether this is the right person to marry.

Peace
James
 
I am not too familiar with Christadelphians but did some quick research. It appears that they are non-trinitarians and do not have a trinitarian Baptism. I bring this up because, that makes your fiancee a non-Christian when it comes to marriage. A marriage to him will be non-sacramental even if you are married in the Chuch with a dispensation.

The good news is that many diocese have special resources available for Catholics to access in marriage prep to non-Christians. The Church sees mixed marriages like this to be a special challenge. You and your fiancee should set up an appointment with your pastor as soon as possible to discuss marriage preparation and ask specifically for help with a mixed marriage. Some parishes/dioceses want a longer marriage prep time-frame for mixed marriages than for marriage to other Catholics or non-Catholic baptized Christians.

I also strongly urge you to get involved in adult catechesis - sign up for whatever classes you can find on Church teaching and apologetics - your diocese probably has a list. If you want to go forward with this, you need to be firmly grounded in the faith - not to convert him but for your own peace of mind in the event of challenges/attacks to your faith from his family or even from him.

As for books, have you seen “When Only One Converts”? I know you aren’t converting but the book is highly recommended for couples in mixed marriages. Another book you might find helpful is “Handbook of Christian Apologetics” by Peter Kreeft. He builds on a lot of CS Lewis.
 
Wubba said:
It wasn’t until we got engaged that I realized the seriousness of our differences in belief.
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Wow. You waited until almost after the fact before making an issue of this. What advice are you expecting to get from us?

I really don’t understand why people play such games.
 
Hi Wubba, paul plainly tells us not to be unequally yoked. Be blunt with him, unless he converts to the catholic church you can not marry him. He is not a christian.

google.com/#hl=en&q=christadelphian+apologetics&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=37132dca8f7438ee

evangelizeamerica.org/apologetics/Cults/christadelphianism.htm

Unmasking Christadelphianism - The Hopelessness of ‘The Hope’ by Branson Hopkins
shop.jubilee.org.nz/usa/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=97
shop.jubilee.org.nz/usa/product_info.php?products_id=89
 
Wubba,
Go into this with your eyes wide open. Never assume that you can change another person. You can’t.

When you are finding a partner for life, you need to be compatible on all the big issues or the marriage will eventually dissolve. Therefore, the only way this marriage works is if you decide that Catholicism isn’t important to you. This is a true test of faith. How important is it to you? And do not fall into the trap of hoping he will change for you. Assume he will not.

I know this is a very tought situation and a very severe test. I’ll pray for you to make the right choice.
 
I’m reminded of a joke.

A wanna-be Yoga teacher walks into a pizza parlor owned by a Zen master.

The wanna-be says, “Make me one with everything!”

So, the Zen master makes the wanna-be a pizza with mushrooms, peppers, olives…the whole shebang.

After eating, the wanna-be goes to the counter to pay. The Zen master says, “That will be $14, please”.

The wanna-be digs into his wallet, and taking out a $20 bill, hands the bill to the Zen master, who shoves the bill into his pocket.

The wanna-be was shocked: “Hey, I gave you a $20 bill, and the pizza cost $14. Where’s my change?”

The Zen master looked up at the wanna-be, and then replied “Change must come from within.”

Same thing here. Any change in religion, any conversion, must come from each person’s side. Nothing you say will convert him; he’s heard it all before.
 
I would say the arguments would not help but to work in some polite conversation would be more beneficial. What worked for me though was my fiancee (at the time) and I were attending RCIA so we could marry in the Church. I had not been baptized though was very open minded to what was taught in class. I found that everything made a lot of sense and decided to stay with the classes through to the end and entered the Church in April at the Easter Vigil.
 
Thanks for all the help guys. I really do appreciate all of the prayer.

However, I would like to clarify on a few things…

I am not here looking for people to tell me I should dump him.
I am not here looking for people to tell me that I should have dealt with this sooner.
I am not here looking for people to tell me that it will never work.

I AM here looking for advice regarding the Holy Spirit opening his eyes. I am looking for helpful suggestions…bible verses, books, prayer, different approaches, etc.

He is not going to change for me. He knows that I don’t want that. We are seeking the truth together, and I am praying and asking for help that God will open his eyes and reveal his true self to him.

I am not going to just forget about him and hope he finds the truth on his own. More than wanting to be with him, I want him to truly find Christ in all his glory. If that means that we don’t end up together, so be it, and I would be incredibly upset, but his salvation is my #1 priority.

Please be genuine and not insulting. I am here concerned for his soul and eternity. A soul that he doesn’t believe he has. I am fighting on his behalf. Please pray for us.

(Justin – how exactly does RCIA work?)
 
Wubba said:
However, I would like to clarify on a few things…

I am not here looking for people to tell me I should dump him.
I am not here looking for people to tell me that I should have dealt with this sooner.
I am not here looking for people to tell me that it will never work.

I AM here looking for advice regarding the Holy Spirit opening his eyes. I am looking for helpful suggestions…bible verses, books, prayer, different approaches, etc.
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Well, maybe you came to the wrong place. We’re not Ophra here. We’re a bunch of crusty apologists who are better at telling the plain truth than saying what people want to hear.

Here’s the plain truth: Your guy has exactly ONE connection to the Catholic Church - and it’s you. The Holy Spirit may work THROUGH you, but he will not (usually) work INSTEAD of you. There is no book you can put in his hands that will convert him. There is no Biblical verse that you can cite that will convert him. There is no prayer that you can say that will convert him. He has to WANT it, and, right now, you are the only influence in his life who can make that happen.

So we have no prayers, or books, or verses to offer him. It’s up to you. Welcome to the universal priesthood (Lumen Gentium, Chapter 4).

I’m sorry if that’s not what you wanted to hear, but it’s the truth.
 
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